Do we truly need cbdc when bitcoin already exist? - page 4.

ultrloa

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Quote from: Silberman on October 04, 2023, 12:14:26 AM

Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

This is an example of the proverb ‘if you cannot beat them, join them’ governments all around the world have tried all kind of strategies to eradicate or to at least slow down bitcoin and they have failed, so what they are trying now is to create their own coins hoping to dupe enough people into thinking their centralized coins are better than bitcoin, but even if they could achieve their objective and deceive a lot of people, they will never deceive us and we will keep using bitcoin regardless of any strategy they may come up to counter it.

They have failed to contain bitcoin so maybe they try to control it by introducing this new coin. But I doubt this can eliminate bitcoin since to many challenges has been passed and even government cannot move it until it get no demand. But for sure their are people will adopt this coin since some may think that centralize coins is good coin to have but it will just be traded together on exchange so most provably this CBDC will became another alternative coins like USDT and other stable coins. Those people who want to control the industry cannot really deceive people about its existence but rather they will continue to adopt bitcoin for betterment especially for profit generation, people know that bitcoin could give them more better profit rather than holding a coin created by them.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

This is an example of the proverb ‘if you cannot beat them, join them’ governments all around the world have tried all kind of strategies to eradicate or to at least slow down bitcoin and they have failed, so what they are trying now is to create their own coins hoping to dupe enough people into thinking their centralized coins are better than bitcoin, but even if they could achieve their objective and deceive a lot of people, they will never deceive us and we will keep using bitcoin regardless of any strategy they may come up to counter it.

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Quote from: wallet4bitcoin on October 03, 2023, 07:22:40 AM

Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

Do we really need cbdc now?

NO!

The idea behind the CBDC across various countries is, amongst others, to digitally represent themselves in the new technology and also have swift tranfers but neglect the very blockchain onus, which is, by far, the most proritised reason for the blockchain technology.

<...>

I agree with that: the first idea that comes to mind when we think about cbdc's is that it is a way to compete with cryptos (mainly stablecoins), which can be also true in the future, but as per now I think that it is more a maneuver to make fiat (and financial control institutions) look cool. Younger people is learning about blockchain, and legacy institutions don't want to look archaic for them. Of course, goals and strategies vary between countries, but the idea of the digital representation is quite on point.

Darker45

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You're raising the question here. You'll probably receive a resounding no as an answer. You raise the same question somewhere else and the answer could possibly be a resounding yes.

The world has grown digital. Fiat will also have to adapt. This is not just a matter of relevance but also of efficiency, not just from the point of view of finance and business people but also of law enforcers. So if I were somebody who belongs to these categories, I'd also be saying yes.

But since I have already encountered Bitcoin and has gone a little bit deep down the rabbit hole, I'd say no. But my no is not just on CBDC but also on fiat in general. Nobody in the Bitcoin community would probably say yes to fiat and no to CBDC.

Therefore, the debate on CBDC belongs to the fiat community. To the Bitcoin community, CBDC is similar to fiat. It's just a change of form. Therefore, by saying no to fiat, the necessary implication is that we're also saying no to CBDC.

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Quote from: BALIK on October 03, 2023, 03:11:55 AM

There is a truth that you need to accept that, whether we need CBDC or not, it will still be issued by the government and in the further future, it can even completely replace paper money. So as long as the government still controls us, it is mandatory for us to use fiat or CBDC in the future, we have no choice whether we want that to happen or not.

I don't see the usefulness of CBDC over fiat. The government is only using CBDC as the digital version of their money and therefore it won't replace fiat. Fiat is going nowhere because of its traditional role it does, there are things you need to buy and you don't need either btc or CBDC. Also, countries that are yet to have CBDC may prefer to rely on usdt or other stable coins instead. So whether the government choose to use CBDC or not, fiat will still be around.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

Do we really need cbdc now?

CBDC's are distractions to take your attention from what is the important thing which is bitcoins. CBDC's is what the government wants to use to deceive people not to use bitcoins and cryptocurrency for transactions. The creation of CBDC's is to ensure that they do not loose their third party grip that they have on the financial life of the citizens. In my opinion, they are unnecessary and maybe the next stage in evolution for the banks, but for us, bitcoin is what is next for us not CBDC's.

2double0

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CBDCs are only a way for governments to keep their eye on you and your transactions. I don't think it is needed at any cost unless there is no system to pay online and CBDC is the only option left. Besides that, CBDC also cannot come into existence without pegging it to printed money of the specific country and it's not easily possible to know how much exactly is circulating there.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

We know, and the government knows, that we don’t need CBDC since it is controlled by them and cannot be compared to bitcoin, which is not regulated by any authority. As people are embracing digital currency and increasing its global usage, the government will want to create a competition to reduce the usage of the decentralised currency by spreading false information about it so that people will switch to its alternative, which is this CBDC. CBDC is merely a ploy to track the use of people's funds in transactions that they cannot track using bitcoin.

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: Alpha Marine on October 03, 2023, 11:54:43 AM

CBDC is just a centralized form of Bitcoin. It's the complete opposite of what Bitcoin stands for. The government can't allow people to have control over themselves. They won't just sit by and watch that happen. They'll have to do something about it.
CBDC will be a total failure in every country.

It's contradictary statement that CBDC is a centralized form of bitcoin. First thing is that CBDCs are not volatile, meaning it just represents the country's currency in online system where the world is trying to leap right now. Second, is that Bitcoin became an asset rather than currency. We need both to be honest, use bitcoin as an asset for future gains and CBDC for day to day living making cashless payments, hassle-less payments, P2P transactions, etc. I don't think it's going to fail, the government is trying to upscale and upgrade the system we currently using, and of course it is their duty to keep it centralized and avoid any anomaly in the society. Governing body over us isn't a bad thing.

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Every country comes up with some reason for the development of CBDC. Some countries have joined together and planned for common CBDC, so that it can be used in cross border settlements with ease and in a cost effective way. However the main objective of governments is to keep things under control and make people avoid the usage of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

Governments have well understood about bitcoin, growth, widespread and increasing popularity among common people, also they know it isn't possible to down the growth of bitcoin with the development of CBDC. Bitcoin does everything in a better way than the CBDC and it isn't necessary.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

You can't compare those. It's fiat money and btc is not going to replace fiat money as it's by design not designed for that. Ability to print money or inflation if a system that can help governments in crisis situations, if done correctly. Only inflationary money can do this, not deflationary or money with fixed supply. Bitcoin is good for other things but it's not benefiting any government over fiat money.

Also there would definitely be issue with those permissionless immutable transactions in transparent network, which is the whole point of bitcoin.

And do we need cbdc over current systems? Probably. It would be helpful system against money laundering and one tool to keep corruption in check.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

One of the limiting factors for Bitcoin is the capacity of the network and even the total volume of bitcoin in existence. You could argue that Bitcoin itself suffers from a form of inflation, because every year a certain amount of coins will be lost for a whole variety of reasons, from dust left over in transactions to wallets lost by owners. This makes it hard to realistically fit all the transactions that even small countries need on to the existing blockchain at a reasonable level. Certain countries may choose to take on a CBDC project to experiment with creating a truly digital currency but need it in a more contained and sterile environment compared to the constant fluctuations you see on pre-existing crypto

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Quote from: philipma1957 on October 03, 2023, 01:14:54 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on October 03, 2023, 06:02:06 AM

Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.
Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks
This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers
The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.
Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;
Do we really need cbdc now?

To answer once again about CBDC : it is not what we all dreamed of. It is not "blockchain and security for the masses", it is total control and complete management of your money, which will be in the hands of the state. Read about the implementation of this technology, it is a "blockchain hell" which just crosses out all the advantages of this wonderful technology and ideology. But... most likely - there's no turning back now

Well then if so it means btc was a con as it helped people think digital and then the governments of the world will do cbdc.
So my idea that satoshi was the CIA or some secret agency with a plan is bolstered yet again. Get people to used btc then force them to use cbdc.
It would mean btw's sole purpose was to create cbdc down the road.
we could be truly fucked.
or not. time will tell.

You misunderstood me. It's more like good technology created a monster. It happened when the state systems realized that it is difficult to fight cryptocurrencies, but it can be used for their "benefit". That's what happens in our lives. The energy of the atom can serve mankind, giving people light, heat, energy. And it can also kill massively... Like any entity, this technology has two sides. Alas, dualism accompanies us everywhere.

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Quote from: DrBeer on October 03, 2023, 06:02:06 AM

Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

To answer once again about CBDC : it is not what we all dreamed of. It is not "blockchain and security for the masses", it is total control and complete management of your money, which will be in the hands of the state. Read about the implementation of this technology, it is a "blockchain hell" which just crosses out all the advantages of this wonderful technology and ideology. But... most likely - there's no turning back now

Well then if so it means btc was a con as it helped people think digital and then the governments of the world will do cbdc.

So my idea that satoshi was the CIA or some secret agency with a plan is bolstered yet again. Get people to used btc then force them to use cbdc.

It would mean btw's sole purpose was to create cbdc down the road.

we could be truly fucked.

or not. time will tell.

avikz

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I am not sure why you are comparing between cbdc and cryptocurrency. They are structurally very different. Criptocurrencies are decentralized without any Central issuing authority and cbdc are just digital representation of Fiat money. So these cannot be compared.

While we do not need cbdc but from the perspective of a government it has multifold benefits. As a citizen you lose your financial freedom and as a government they get a birds eye view of your finance. So its better to prepare mentally to adopt cbdc in very near future.

goldkingcoiner

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We never needed a CBDC after the creation of Bitcoin. A CBDC would have been a regulatory improvement for fiat and only for fiat. But then we would have a broken currency being endlessly printed by the government with an China level of financial dystopia where the government has to approve the things you can or cannot buy, depending on the laws and your own social credit score. Its disgusting and inhumane.

Bitcoin is the hero we need. And we should remember that.

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It's like a diversion tactic from them because they can't defeat the real decentralization that's happening through the revolution of cryptocurrencies. Do we need CBDCs? No, the government needs them because that will show that they can control whatever they want to control. But as for us, we've gone through with that and done with it. Let themselves apply, invest, and work on it so that we'll have another laughing stock for which they've done way worse than the earliest and darkest days of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: KiaKia on October 03, 2023, 11:31:19 AM

People don't need CBDC but the government need to make one, so there for, some people will have to use CBDC because they like using everything the government tell them to, I as a person don't need CBDC, the agenda behind this CBDC is still unknown to me, maybe to ridicule crypto?

Simply, they want to control you more easily, and those who find ways to avoid taxation in different ways will be punished or caught using this system. But as said before it is optional and people can choose to use it and ignore it so I think it is not that efficient to keep track of the money. The best benefit of this technology is, that it will eliminate the corruption from roots if implemented correctly and at the right places.

For example at political funds or institutional platforms, they should also provide us the data publicly visible to us so that people can audit the transactions on their own in CBDC.

Quote from: KiaKia on October 03, 2023, 11:31:19 AM

Now even the government want to take the power by force, that's why ETFs need to be approved, I believe more truth will come to light as we go down this rabbit hole, it's a matter of choice if anyone want to use CBDC, I mean, very few people cares about privacy this days, most people trust their government more than their own lives.

You are right, CBDC and the ETFs are the branches of the same tree which belong to centralized authorities. And we should avoid their usage at the professional level like for making transactions at the international level. Because we are BTC users and we should value our privacy.

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Nobody needs CBDC’s. The world is perfectly fine without them. The governments need CBDC’s because they want to control everyone’s finances. Bitcoin is the complete opposite of CBDC’s because it doesn’t take freedom from people, it gives it to them. The govs can freeze our funds whenever they like if we switch to CBDC’s. Something like that will never happen to you with btc. We should all protest against CBDC’s and maybe the govs will step back and forget this stupid idea. Say no to fascism, say no to CBDC’s.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

Do we really need cbdc now?

The question is yes in a twisted way. But also no. People are already comfortable with the traditional cash method. But the government is shoving CBDC in people's throats. Those who are comfortable with using CBDC will use it. But those who are not, they will learn somehow. A step towards the digital world I should say. This is where my answer is yes. Because many people will learn the idea of using digital assets. That's a good thing. But if they realize that the government is using this CBDC to take more control over people, they will lean towards a more secure option. Something that will give them freedom. What's better than Bitcoin? I am sure this will lead to something good. But that depends on whether people understand the manipulation of government or not.

But if it didn't exist, then there was no need. Slowly but surely every person will understand the value of bitcoin and what it can offer. Then they will move towards BTC. But as it exists, I think it is somehow good. But it all depends on that one thing.

Topic: Do we truly need cbdc when bitcoin already exist? - page 4. (Read 737 times)