Whoop de woo, a full node, like I haven't been doing that since I started.
I am voluntarily participating in bitcoin as it was designed to work, shame on me.
Topic: Do you think Bitcoin should modify to POW + POS ? █████ Poll █████ - page 8. (Read 7535 times)
January 06, 2015, 11:15:28 AM
January 06, 2015, 11:01:58 AM
What? I've been a part of keeping bitcoin running the last 2 years and I'm the shill? What have you done for bitcoin lately?
PoW mining is NOT NEEDED to keep Bitcoin running, it's a waste and leech, its only purpose is extracting value out of Bitcoin.
I run a Bitcoin promotional website, and also run a Bitcoin full node. See my god damn signature.
January 06, 2015, 10:59:42 AM
What? I've been a part of keeping bitcoin running the last 2 years and I'm the shill? What have you done for bitcoin lately?
January 06, 2015, 10:57:06 AM
Yah srsly, if it's about using and promoting PoS crypto, take your money and fuck off into one.
If it's about a money grab so bitcoins market cap serves your personal agenda, well... keep plugging.
If it's about a money grab so bitcoins market cap serves your personal agenda, well... keep plugging.
Your post history indicates you are an investor of PoW Mining companies. Surely your opinion is neutral. YOU FUCK OFF, PoW miner shill.
January 06, 2015, 10:56:35 AM
Yah srsly, if it's about using and promoting PoS crypto, take your money and fuck off into one.
If it's about a money grab so bitcoins market cap serves your personal agenda, well... keep plugging.
If it's about a money grab so bitcoins market cap serves your personal agenda, well... keep plugging.
If you think BTC/POW is secure in its position, why do you think talking about POS will have any effect on anything?
January 06, 2015, 10:50:48 AM
Yah srsly, if it's about using and promoting PoS crypto, take your money and fuck off into one.
If it's about a money grab so bitcoins market cap serves your personal agenda, well... keep plugging.
If it's about a money grab so bitcoins market cap serves your personal agenda, well... keep plugging.
January 06, 2015, 10:43:37 AM
No, keep Bitcoin PoW.
If you want PoS, then use PeerCoin and let Sunny King be your king.
If you want PoS, then use PeerCoin and let Sunny King be your king.
January 06, 2015, 08:34:58 AM
You for nxt would have to do it from both ends though, eg you have to send the profits back some how so you have to log into the receiving address and send profits back.
Well, you don't have to send profits back, but if you want to, you would log into your online machine and send the generated fees back from hot wallet to cold wallet.
In peercoin, would the offline wallet automatically recieve minted coins? Apart from that, the ideas look similar.
Is this already implemented in peercoin?
January 06, 2015, 08:14:39 AM
I think the Peercoin version is cleaner as you are not locked in beyond the next sending block at any time. Nor do you ever have to enter your sending privkey exposed.
You are not locked in beyond the next sending block with Nxt either. You prepare a lease transaction offline, switch machines, broadcast it. I do it all the time and it's quite easy with this little software: https://nxtforum.org/keystash-core-releases/
You can cancel the lease anytime you want and have full control over your funds, they are not locked. If you want you can send out funds from your cold wallet during the lease (will decrease forging power).
So, privkeys are not exposed, funds are not locked, and it's live on mainnet.
the swapping machines bit as I stated yes ok this may be done for both.
You for nxt would have to do it from both ends though, eg you have to send the profits back some how so you have to log into the receiving address and send profits back. It's not a big issues, but seems a bit awkward. It's good for pooling though!
January 06, 2015, 08:04:30 AM
I think the Peercoin version is cleaner as you are not locked in beyond the next sending block at any time. Nor do you ever have to enter your sending privkey exposed.
You are not locked in beyond the next sending block with Nxt either. You prepare a lease transaction offline, switch machines, broadcast it. I do it all the time and it's quite easy with this little software: https://nxtforum.org/keystash-core-releases/
You can cancel the lease anytime you want and have full control over your funds, they are not locked. If you want you can send out funds from your cold wallet during the lease (will decrease forging power).
So, privkeys are not exposed, funds are not locked, and it's live on mainnet.
January 06, 2015, 07:51:58 AM
Can someone from the "change camp" please explain what they are expecting from such a change?
It's all about stealing the wealth that people have entrusted to bitcoin, to reclone alts as bitcoin that people have specifically NOT entrusted wealth to.
Basically the formation of a quasi-state like entity to say "Hey, I see how you want your money to work, well tough shit, we're gonna take it away and do what WE want with it."
January 06, 2015, 07:40:24 AM
Private key for minting = Online account (and its passphrase)
Sending key = Offline account (and its passphrase).
Offline transaction is prepared offline using the passphrase once a month (roughly) for the leasing. Prepared transaction is broadcast on the network. No exposure of offline key (passphrase) to the network.
How is it different? Is this live in Peercoin or still being discussed?
Sending key = Offline account (and its passphrase).
Offline transaction is prepared offline using the passphrase once a month (roughly) for the leasing. Prepared transaction is broadcast on the network. No exposure of offline key (passphrase) to the network.
How is it different? Is this live in Peercoin or still being discussed?
January 06, 2015, 07:30:09 AM
Pos is probally going to happen sooner or later to BTC. The head wind of mining is an issue. Further PeerCoin has just implemented cold minting, which mean your coins can not be stolen even if they get the private key for minting (which would be the only one exposed to a hack). Your sending key is kept of line if you wish.
Same is already possible in Nxt since more than half a year. You can lease your forging power from your offline wallet to your online wallet, the private keys of your stash can completely remain on an offline machine.
this sounds a bit different. How do you get the minting lease back? Is there a minting priv key with a time expire or something.
I am not familiar with this.
Ok read a bit. So you give over forging power to another hmmm ? address I guess? is that right. So you could just lease it out to another address and then it auto reverts after time expires. This mean your nxt is vulnerable when you send them only eg enter password to do this. So it seems a bit different in that respect.
Forging power is being split from the coin (nxt) rather than cold minting the coin insitu. I kind amounts to the same thing I guess. Eg I could give some one my priv peercoin minting key and they pay me. If the dont pay I just move my coin to a new address. Similarly with the next version the lessor has to actually pay they may not pay up, then you wait until the lease expires. I think the Peercoin version is cleaner as you are not locked in beyond the next sending block at any time. Nor do you ever have to enter your sending privkey exposed. In next you have to fire up your nrs and put passphrase in. Not a bigge though as you just have the right machine for the job.
January 06, 2015, 07:29:01 AM
That's impossible. It will make bitcoin a clone of peercoin.
that's not an argument to make something impossible.
January 06, 2015, 06:48:54 AM
Pos is probally going to happen sooner or later to BTC. The head wind of mining is an issue. Further PeerCoin has just implemented cold minting, which mean your coins can not be stolen even if they get the private key for minting (which would be the only one exposed to a hack). Your sending key is kept of line if you wish.
Same is already possible in Nxt. You can lease your forging power from your offline wallet to your online wallet, the private keys of your stash can completely remain on an offline machine.
True, this has been implemented in Nxt since April 2014.
When minting on n-chains at once (aka multibranch Forging), n grows exponentially with time. To keep signing each new branch attempting to get a better chain, POS will then tend towards becoming POW. So allowing multibranch forging is a positive for properly implemented POS.
Research papers available for anyone interested...
January 06, 2015, 06:42:27 AM
Pos is probally going to happen sooner or later to BTC. The head wind of mining is an issue. Further PeerCoin has just implemented cold minting, which mean your coins can not be stolen even if they get the private key for minting (which would be the only one exposed to a hack). Your sending key is kept of line if you wish.
Same is already possible in Nxt since more than half a year. You can lease your forging power from your offline wallet to your online wallet, the private keys of your stash can completely remain on an offline machine.
January 06, 2015, 06:42:03 AM
That's impossible. It will make bitcoin a clone of peercoin.
January 06, 2015, 06:37:23 AM
Pos is probally going to happen sooner or later to BTC. The head wind of mining is an issue. Further PeerCoin has just implemented cold minting, which mean your coins can not be stolen even if they get the private key for minting (which would be the only one exposed to a hack). Your sending key is kept of line if you wish.
That right 2 keys, one for minting one for sending.
Peercoin is solving the problems, now.
The BTC argument is mining is an external factor vs minting in internal and so can not be checked. Sort of an unbounded out put from a bounded input argument, or no -ve feed back loop to keep it stable. I have not seen a rigorous proof for this assertion yet.
The next argument of BTC is that there is nothing at stake for POS, so you can mint n-chains at once. But who cares? This is just like merged mining, which happens now for POW. This doesn't make IXC coin or IOC the same value as BTC? So that argument falls flat as well.
Another argument is Hording. So what a bitcoin is very divisible or near enough not and issue
So there is not real argument that has been tendered that say we cant use POS
That right 2 keys, one for minting one for sending.
Peercoin is solving the problems, now.
The BTC argument is mining is an external factor vs minting in internal and so can not be checked. Sort of an unbounded out put from a bounded input argument, or no -ve feed back loop to keep it stable. I have not seen a rigorous proof for this assertion yet.
The next argument of BTC is that there is nothing at stake for POS, so you can mint n-chains at once. But who cares? This is just like merged mining, which happens now for POW. This doesn't make IXC coin or IOC the same value as BTC? So that argument falls flat as well.
Another argument is Hording. So what a bitcoin is very divisible or near enough not and issue
So there is not real argument that has been tendered that say we cant use POS
January 06, 2015, 06:28:44 AM
How does USD stop people from hoarding?
Do you honestly need an explanation why stashing USD under your mattress is financially not a good idea?
...if inflationary currency is needed, then so be it, you can petition to change Bitcoin to inflationary. You can go ahead and push for your ideal model. It has nothing to do with PoS, since it can do both.
Bitcoin is also deflationary, how do you stop people from hoarding Bitcoin? How does PoW vs PoS have anything to do with this?
Bitcoin is also deflationary, how do you stop people from hoarding Bitcoin? How does PoW vs PoS have anything to do with this?
I'm not pushing for anything. I see some pros and cons with both PoS and PoW, while you seem to stuck with logic "PoW sucks because of mining costs, therefore PoS must be perfect".
Lets take this scenario:
1) You have X PoW bitcoins, which is x% of total existing bitcoins. Since new coins are issued every day, if you want to maintain your x% you have to be active. You'd have to buy/mine/invest/scam/steal/gamble/create new BTC business/lend out etc.
2) You have X PoS bitcoins. To maintain your X% of total BTC, you have to do nothing, you just need to stake up all your coins in the wallet and don't use them.
Which system promotes activity and which one discourages it?
January 06, 2015, 06:23:27 AM
Can someone from the "change camp" please explain what they are expecting from such a change?
I suspect that altcoin sales people are brigading this poll.
I suspect that altcoin sales people are brigading this poll.
Less centralization by mining companies/pools , much less electricity wasted compared to PoW
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