Do you think that planned pump and dump is ethically acceptable?

TheUltraElite

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Quote from: Silberman on January 11, 2021, 01:43:10 PM

Correct, which is why no one should try to trade those coins, it has been a known fact for a very long time that you cannot use technical analysis in small markets effectively and most honest books that you can read about trading will specify that pump and dumps are precisely the reason, in markets in which a single movement of a whale can move the market up or down technical analysis becomes meaningless and even if whales are powerful in the market of bitcoin they can be counted by other whales or retail investors.

You can still trade in the top 10 altcoins. At least their market cap is comparable among each other and higher than the shitcoins that go 400% gains overnight. But these are not the coins to hold on to for long term. They are supposed to go up and go down without warning, even in the middle of the night. Making all of them a much more risky asset to hold than what bitcoin has become.

Bitcoin may drop but we have confidence that it will go up again. We can say this for certain but can we do that for altcoins? No. We will be doubting that.

This is why the fear level in altcoin market is also high. It takes just a small cap whale to dump and make the rest of the retail investors go crazy with fear. Hence my suggestion to keep altcoins to a minimum.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: btcsmlcmnr on December 27, 2020, 10:18:14 PM

Pump and dump are beauty of crypto market and I don't deny that I love it.

Sure, everyone loves it when they're in on the game--but pump and dumps always have victims, the suckers that buy in at the top when all the insiders are dumping. That's why it's illegal in the stock market to do that sort of thing.

It's kind of surprising to me that the laws haven't caught up to cryptocurrency in that respect, because I'm pretty sure it's still legal to pump and dump shitcoins at will. It certainly happens all the time. Anyway, I don't think it's "ethically acceptable" because of the aforementioned victims in the P&D scheme. Nobody makes a profit in them without someone losing.

Silberman

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on January 11, 2021, 09:11:49 AM

Quote from: Silberman on January 06, 2021, 03:02:36 PM

I really think that pump and dumps are significant factor why many altcoins never see too much action, bitcoin is not only the best coin in the market it is also an asset that thanks to its huge volume cannot be pumped nowhere near as easily as a coin with no volume, this offers a certain amount of certainty, when you see a movement in bitcoin you know there is a significant amount of money in the movement and that for the most part it is a real movement with a lot of people behind it.

I guess this is a reason why bitcoin has gained trust and with trust comes importance and long term valuation among the investors. Altcoins on the other hand are tainted by the words of pump and dump as evidenced by the charts.

Although bitcoin does get pumped without an organic cause when a certain triggering event takes place, it does get corrected with time and comes back to realistic levels soon. A good example is what happened this and the last 2weeks with the price as it crossed 40k USD and now getting corrected back to 34k USD.

Altcoin markets have always been a prey to PnD. I dont see their markets improving in this regard either in future. Tongue

Correct, which is why no one should try to trade those coins, it has been a known fact for a very long time that you cannot use technical analysis in small markets effectively and most honest books that you can read about trading will specify that pump and dumps are precisely the reason, in markets in which a single movement of a whale can move the market up or down technical analysis becomes meaningless and even if whales are powerful in the market of bitcoin they can be counted by other whales or retail investors.

kram31

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Of course for the people like us here who are not rich, this is obviously very unprofessional or unethical. But in the positive side if you have
a trusted groups who will inform you if the coins will pump, many for sure can get a good profit in a short period of time. But if this just a group or signal group this is dangerous to join with them I guess.

error08

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Quote from: Cryptopher on December 27, 2020, 09:26:07 PM

What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?

People who have involved in trading know about it and we should aware that trading isn't simply 'buy and sell' but Trading is a war among everyone who wants to get a profit. Someone can not earn profit without others lose their money, this is not related to ethics and the like, it's just a strategy and abilities to read the market and predict the outcome in the future that will determine whether someone will gain profit or lose.

menoiazei

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Crypto stocks or fiat is free market and everyone responsible for their decisions so why not,
good coins will stand the test of time

TheUltraElite

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Quote from: Silberman on January 06, 2021, 03:02:36 PM

I really think that pump and dumps are significant factor why many altcoins never see too much action, bitcoin is not only the best coin in the market it is also an asset that thanks to its huge volume cannot be pumped nowhere near as easily as a coin with no volume, this offers a certain amount of certainty, when you see a movement in bitcoin you know there is a significant amount of money in the movement and that for the most part it is a real movement with a lot of people behind it.

I guess this is a reason why bitcoin has gained trust and with trust comes importance and long term valuation among the investors. Altcoins on the other hand are tainted by the words of pump and dump as evidenced by the charts.

Although bitcoin does get pumped without an organic cause when a certain triggering event takes place, it does get corrected with time and comes back to realistic levels soon. A good example is what happened this and the last 2weeks with the price as it crossed 40k USD and now getting corrected back to 34k USD.

Altcoin markets have always been a prey to PnD. I dont see their markets improving in this regard either in future. Tongue

kotajikikox

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Quote from: Cryptopher on December 27, 2020, 09:26:07 PM

What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?

In past i find this unfair because this has not been the market we are looking for , but on the other hand This is basically the way how the market proves Being Healthy mate because look on How will the market moves when there are no Pumping and Dumping happens .
Though still there is no Proof on this to be really in act but obviously there is .

Quote from: Ucy on January 06, 2021, 01:15:22 PM

Not sure about the ethical part but i think it can be considered immoral if the intention is to manipulate price for selfish/bad reasons, and if a deliberate price manipulation is done without network approval.
So, people should be more considerate of the general network while trading.

Immoral but on some ways Useful , this sounds like a Gambling platform in which the winnings are given to be lower chances than losing.

Ziskinberg

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Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on January 07, 2021, 02:28:41 AM

Quote from: Cryptopher on December 27, 2020, 09:26:07 PM

What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?

Worry about things you can control and let those you can't control be. You can't control how people when to manipulate their way to success as all you just explains above is a perfect example of using shortcuts to become successful which isn't idea. Irrespective the f how the pumps become a success, you abstaining from partaking in this act will prevent you from falling victims.

How to spot this pumps are very easy, they're using coins that have zero or low liquidity and can be easily manipulated. They have no community backup or technology to rely on instead using the hype around the community to decieve gullible investors if their project been the best.

I'm not in support of pumps and dump and intentionally I haven't participated in any although I have bought several coins in the past that I left the project immediately I saw some impressive numbers of ROI.

What we are seeing is normal in the crypto space, even if there are people who will continuously preach that bitcoin will be stable because of institutional investors but until it's proven, we should not believe it, we have to believe the nature and what we have been witnessing in a regular basis.

If I have enough money and I can benefit on the pump and dump, I would certainly do it as it's not illegal and everyone of us here is trading to make money, but we differ on ways.

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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Quote from: Cryptopher on December 27, 2020, 09:26:07 PM

What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?

Worry about things you can control and let those you can't control be. You can't control how people when to manipulate their way to success as all you just explains above is a perfect example of using shortcuts to become successful which isn't idea. Irrespective the f how the pumps become a success, you abstaining from partaking in this act will prevent you from falling victims.

How to spot this pumps are very easy, they're using coins that have zero or low liquidity and can be easily manipulated. They have no community backup or technology to rely on instead using the hype around the community to decieve gullible investors if their project been the best.

I'm not in support of pumps and dump and intentionally I haven't participated in any although I have bought several coins in the past that I left the project immediately I saw some impressive numbers of ROI.

teosanru

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Quote from: Cryptopher on December 27, 2020, 09:26:07 PM

Pump and dumps have been a part of cryptocurrency trading scene since the first exchanges went live, owing a lot to thin order books, and unregulated exchanges.

That is, an individual or a group of individuals could cause an increase in price (typically with volume) to generate hysteria to then subsequently sell off for a huge profit at the expense of those late to the game.

The markets have long been manipulated, however nowadays there are groups dedicated to generated huge trading volumes along with heavy social media promotion to generate hysteria.

What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?

No Definitely not. Pump and dump if done intentionally can never be justified ethically. Moreover even worse is when you give guided advice to someone to buy this coin after you yourself have pumped it up. But another side of the coin is that in the market someone's loss is someone's profit but Merely buying with an intention to pump a coin and then dumping it intentionally in a way that its value comes down can never really be justified ethically. There are many new investors in the market who are never equipped enough to know about all this moreover many of them have put up their lifelong savings. Even though it might sound too emotional but I feel it's not really that ethical.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: mu_enrico on January 06, 2021, 01:27:26 PM

Quote from: cryptolord2077 on January 05, 2021, 06:19:40 PM

I think yes, but only on condition that everyone is aware of what is happening, and that the pump and dump are artificial.

It wouldn't work mate Grin

It is unethical since it relies upon newbies getting suckered into buying some coins.

In the end, the victim is always the newbies who bought last. That's why it's illegal in the regulated market.

Regulated or not it would really be an unethical thing to be done yet if there are ones who do make money then there are lots who would get wrecked along the process.

Also these kind of pump and dump cant really be seen until its too late.You cant even point out if its a pump and dump one or a typical correction in the market.

So its hard to tell yet it cant really be done so easily yet there would be lots of questions and criticisms if that do happen.Lots of questions will arise and lots of searching will happen.

Silberman

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on January 05, 2021, 03:16:55 AM

Quote from: palle11 on December 28, 2020, 03:26:48 PM

When you make profit, some has made lose and market keep on moving.

True, but the market here is unregulated and like a Wild West. Hence considered more risky than the fiat markets.

Quote

I can be against pump and dump if it is a worthless coin made for only the purpose to scam investors.

99% of altcoin projects are that. Cool

Quote

Such coin just only pump and dump for life to the disadvantage of hodlers as it may not come up again in the market or get removed from exchange.

PnD is always going to be disadvantageous to hodlers and advantageous to the people doing it. If you are holding some coin which is prone to getting pumped and dumped, sell at the next pump and forget about that coin forever. Bitcoin rarely sees pump and dump that makes its price inflate or deflate too much hence there is no problem of holding it for long term.

It is one of the bad effects of having an unregulated market, you have nothing to do here but accept it and try to use it to your advantage.

I really think that pump and dumps are significant factor why many altcoins never see too much action, bitcoin is not only the best coin in the market it is also an asset that thanks to its huge volume cannot be pumped nowhere near as easily as a coin with no volume, this offers a certain amount of certainty, when you see a movement in bitcoin you know there is a significant amount of money in the movement and that for the most part it is a real movement with a lot of people behind it.

mu_enrico

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Quote from: cryptolord2077 on January 05, 2021, 06:19:40 PM

I think yes, but only on condition that everyone is aware of what is happening, and that the pump and dump are artificial.

It wouldn't work mate Grin

It is unethical since it relies upon newbies getting suckered into buying some coins.

In the end, the victim is always the newbies who bought last. That's why it's illegal in the regulated market.

Ucy

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Not sure about the ethical part but i think it can be considered immoral if the intention is to manipulate price for selfish/bad reasons, and if a deliberate price manipulation is done without network approval.
So, people should be more considerate of the general network while trading.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: Cryptopher on December 27, 2020, 09:26:07 PM

Pump and dumps have been a part of cryptocurrency trading scene since the first exchanges went live, owing a lot to thin order books, and unregulated exchanges.

That is, an individual or a group of individuals could cause an increase in price (typically with volume) to generate hysteria to then subsequently sell off for a huge profit at the expense of those late to the game.

The markets have long been manipulated, however nowadays there are groups dedicated to generated huge trading volumes along with heavy social media promotion to generate hysteria.

What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?

Pump and dump are part of the trading assets in any format so its not only the issue of cryptocurrencies. In stocks as well these things can happen so we shouldn't tie this cryptocurrency, just need to be careful with big whales and their possible moves.

Ethically it may not be a right thing if someone keeps making profits by using all others but at last everyone is here for making money so the best one will likely to make it possible.

cryptolord2077

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I think yes, but only on condition that everyone is aware of what is happening, and that the pump and dump are artificial.
Least of all, I like that in such stories there is always an element of deception of those people who have no idea what is happening and believe that the pump of a coin is completely natural - it is not beautiful.

zanezane

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Considering that when you sell all your coins for a high percentage profit and knowing that there are people that have bought at the 32k price point is a pretty Stock Market Manipulation alike. I think ethically it does not violate any moral or laws but can your conscience carry the burden that you will be making some people out there homeless because they bought bitcoin at a high price.

TheUltraElite

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Quote from: palle11 on December 28, 2020, 03:26:48 PM

When you make profit, some has made lose and market keep on moving.

True, but the market here is unregulated and like a Wild West. Hence considered more risky than the fiat markets.

Quote

I can be against pump and dump if it is a worthless coin made for only the purpose to scam investors.

99% of altcoin projects are that. Cool

Quote

Such coin just only pump and dump for life to the disadvantage of hodlers as it may not come up again in the market or get removed from exchange.

PnD is always going to be disadvantageous to hodlers and advantageous to the people doing it. If you are holding some coin which is prone to getting pumped and dumped, sell at the next pump and forget about that coin forever. Bitcoin rarely sees pump and dump that makes its price inflate or deflate too much hence there is no problem of holding it for long term.

It is one of the bad effects of having an unregulated market, you have nothing to do here but accept it and try to use it to your advantage.

Rodeo02

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Quote from: Shasha80 on January 02, 2021, 06:23:37 PM

I think the planned pump and dump is an unethical way of trading and I am against it, because there will be many newbies who become victims.
I have a friend who is a victim of a pump and dump conducted by a trading group, eventually he considers crypto is scams. So I am very upset
if there are whales doing pump and dump, it causes many victims for small investors who don't have trading experience. Moreover, getting profit
from a pump and dump will make us feel guilty, because there are some people who are disadvantaged.

people who manipulate market prices can be imprisoned , there is a law for it I just don't know if this will law can also be use in crypto currency but if proven even the exchange has a power to block your account for manipulating the market. So its not a wise idea to join in a group that want to only manipulate the market just because they want to earn from. They can only shill it in social media but manipulating it is a crime and unacceptable for the exchange.

Topic: Do you think that planned pump and dump is ethically acceptable? (Read 650 times)