Manipulation, the pump and dump group have this way to make the market more alive than usual transactions.
For me, it was acceptable. Besides, I was benefiting from it. But I don't think that was made so simple. People who are involved in this (probably a whales) are also risking their money. Of course, they are also spending money on this to completely set up their plan and succeed. And investors had come on the market, we never think it was a trap (even now) but thinking as a normal scenario.
Topic: Do you think that planned pump and dump is ethically acceptable? - page 3. (Read 708 times)
December 28, 2020, 05:51:15 PM
December 28, 2020, 05:48:34 PM
Pump and Dump?
Majority of us would really be always having a bad perception towards it because we do want a somewhat stabilize and cant be easily crashed type of market.
Its ethically acceptable? Ive seen some do agree and some do disagree so its just matter of peoples views about it.
Also, we cant even precisely tell if its really a planned pump and dump because things goes smoothly when it rise and find out and tell up some words
when it declines too fast or crash.
Majority of us would really be always having a bad perception towards it because we do want a somewhat stabilize and cant be easily crashed type of market.
Its ethically acceptable? Ive seen some do agree and some do disagree so its just matter of peoples views about it.
Also, we cant even precisely tell if its really a planned pump and dump because things goes smoothly when it rise and find out and tell up some words
when it declines too fast or crash.
December 28, 2020, 05:08:11 PM
Quote
planned pump and dump is ethically acceptable?
My vote is YES
I think it is because everybody in one way or another try to manipulate the market as they want/wish to.
I think that in the cryptocurrency particular case, we are living in a grey area and what is ethical is essentially a subjective matter.
The pump organizer, just like Alice, have all the power. The organizer will choose what coin to pump ( depending on deep is their pocket but in general the organizer choose a dormant coin with very low trading volume),
.. so the organizer can buy it as cheap as possible before the pump event, the members (in general a telegraph app groups) then get the privileged information on which coin to pump. The group as a whole try to bump as much as possible then dump..
The group is aware what they got into to, they know the rules, etc.
BUT, most of my research on that subject is based on that academic paper.
Xu, Jiahua, and Benjamin Livshits. "The anatomy of a cryptocurrency pump-and-dump scheme." 28th {USENIX} Security Symposium ({USENIX} Security 19). 2019.
December 28, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
At times the creators of heavy projects term it to be ethical just to attain the target through their project. Whats the need of pumping and dumping the market when there is growth based on the demand to the supply. A pump and dump based growth is a manipulated growth.
December 28, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
The pump and dump of bitcoin is ethically acceptable for this have be the nature of bitcoin. The pump and dump of bitcoin make it a business.
December 28, 2020, 03:26:48 PM
I am seeing nothing wrong with pump and dump because is part of the cryptocurrency and that is how money is made. Market can't be steady in a price without shift and you talk about profit. When you make profit, some has made lose and market keep on moving.
I can be against pump and dump if it is a worthless coin made for only the purpose to scam investors. Such coin just only pump and dump for life to the disadvantage of hodlers as it may not come up again in the market or get removed from exchange.
I can be against pump and dump if it is a worthless coin made for only the purpose to scam investors. Such coin just only pump and dump for life to the disadvantage of hodlers as it may not come up again in the market or get removed from exchange.
December 28, 2020, 03:11:10 PM
What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?
Uncomfortable or what as it is but as you said, it's already a usual scene since then.
For that, we just have to be used to it and try to create a strategy that can ride the wave.
The manipulations or any general move by the big groups or those so-called "whales" can't be avoided so we need to always have a plan about how to deal with those activities. And a basic rule of thumb, don't try to test waters at those shitcoins hypes if you don't understand the risks.
December 28, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Pump and dumps have been a part of cryptocurrency trading scene since the first exchanges went live, owing a lot to thin order books, and unregulated exchanges.
That is, an individual or a group of individuals could cause an increase in price (typically with volume) to generate hysteria to then subsequently sell off for a huge profit at the expense of those late to the game.
The markets have long been manipulated, however nowadays there are groups dedicated to generated huge trading volumes along with heavy social media promotion to generate hysteria.
What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?
That kind of scheme has been illegal for a long time and to me it is right there with Ponzi schemes, so to me the people behind those schemes are nothing but scammers, maybe some may think my posture is too harsh especially if we look at the results of the poll so far, but that is what it is, they are taking advantage of the ignorance of most investors about this kind of scheme and then dumping their coins when the price reaches their desired target which is simply not right. That is, an individual or a group of individuals could cause an increase in price (typically with volume) to generate hysteria to then subsequently sell off for a huge profit at the expense of those late to the game.
The markets have long been manipulated, however nowadays there are groups dedicated to generated huge trading volumes along with heavy social media promotion to generate hysteria.
What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?
December 28, 2020, 01:44:17 PM
It is also obvious that many influencers accept these offers - without naming names.
They are opportunists, not influencers. True influencers beware of what they do and what they can bring to audience, followers, friends or members in their groups.
But you also have to be honest and say that probably very few would just turn down such easy money as 10 BTC or 500k in USD. Their "customers" have no clue and invest money in good faith in the so advertised coins and projects.
In my opinion, this is unethical in any case.
December 28, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?
this is quite rational and acceptable. It is true that there is always the possibility of a group of people having this kind of activity. it's just that we as small traders can become victims of the malignancy of their dump, it can also be a support when the pump occurs. This is undeniable, the digital era can be easily controlled by people in this circle. it's just that we don't know who they really are. market movements become irreconcilable, we are confused by the sudden pump and dump.
December 28, 2020, 10:42:09 AM
Ethics is a moral principle that govern human behaviour so in such case if you are within the circle, it is ethically acceptable and if you are outside the circle, it might not be ethically acceptable. Planned pump and dump are common but I believe this is a game that shouldn't lead to complain because if you are in it you should have known it is very risky. Almost everyday, a coin always come up with huge pump so if you join by trading the coin, you should be prepared for what happen. This is what happen in many of this group that claim to give signal. What they do is that they organised planned pump across numerous group and use many of their group member as a bait
December 28, 2020, 08:22:19 AM
It is also obvious that many influencers accept these offers - without naming names.
They are opportunists, not influencers. True influencers beware of what they do and what they can bring to audience, followers, friends or members in their groups.Andreas Antonopoulos proved his reputation with this tweet and the rejection on 10 BTC offer from HEX.
Andreas Antonopoulos: Hex Team Offered Me 10 BTC to Speak Well of Their Token
December 28, 2020, 07:55:50 AM
Quite an easy yes in my opinion. In most cases, especially with the typical _ʌ_ chart of crypto pnds, it's just the sort of "group leader" and a minority of other members are the ones that end up making money, while the other majority are left underwater holding a worthless bag of assets. Though I guess it also depends on how the pnd is advertised.
In my opinion, there is hardly any "classic" pump and dump anymore, as was the case at the end of 2017. At that time, such Telegram groups were almost a dime a dozen, but today you can hardly find any that have a critical number of members, so that the price could be moved somehow (apart from < 10k market cap coins without liquidity, of course). Nowadays P&D takes place much more hidden through crypto influencers. Once they have an appropriate reach, immoral offers like this one come:
Source
It is also obvious that many influencers accept these offers - without naming names.
December 28, 2020, 05:23:37 AM
You asked if Pump and dump groups are ethical? i said NO!, they shouldn't be consider ethical becasue of what they stand for, they are only useful to themselves alone and not to others. They buy shit-coins to hold and find ways to manipulate others to buy thereby sell those shit-coin to these innocent investors struggling to survive in their daily hustling. Why derive pleasure in others fall and still called it ethical?.
December 28, 2020, 05:10:08 AM
One of the major victim here are the newbies.
Those people who are tricked by people, and I believe most of the people who are managing the pumps and dumps or the one who is controlling it are whales for sure. You can't do pump and dump without a quite big fund.
Those people who are tricked by people, and I believe most of the people who are managing the pumps and dumps or the one who is controlling it are whales for sure. You can't do pump and dump without a quite big fund.
December 28, 2020, 05:02:04 AM
What's your take on pump and dumps? Does it make you feel uncomfortable knowing that traders outside of the circle will likely make a short-term loss, while those within the circle will mostly make significant gains?
it's a wash.
markets are zero sum---there are always gonna be winners and losers. i'm not gonna lose any sleep over the losers. they gambled on the market and lost.
that doesn't mean i have any admiration for pump-and-dumpers. i just think they come with the territory. i'd also rather live in a world based on caveat emptor than one where nanny states regulate markets to shit, just to save gullible idiots from themselves.
fools will be parted from their money no matter what. if it's not this scam or the next one, it'll be the one after that.
December 28, 2020, 01:31:15 AM
We can say it is unethical for the pump and dump. But when you see the price jump high, I guess many people will try to join at that moment and sell their coins because they want to make a big profit. I feel comfortable with anything to happen to the market, whether there are a pump and dump happens because I realize that pump and dump will always happen in the market. If the pump and dump are not happening to the market, we will not see growth in the crypto market, and probably, the situation will be stagnant for a long time. People who can use the pump and dump moment will try to use that moment for their own benefit.
December 28, 2020, 12:40:46 AM
Again, I'm talking about pump and dumps triggered by groups of people not by events, that's something different.
I said the beauty is from the chart and my entry if I find it. I never join pump or dump signal groups, they are sucked and I presented my opinion in past post.I think it is unethical to join a signal group and seed the signal to some other channels. The receiver who can take profit are less than the receiver who will be sinked with price after flash dump. They rely on signals so they don't have their opinion and when dumps happen, they shake hands and get loss.
It is good if you stay outside signal groups and make your trades.
Pumps with events are scheduled are more organic and can last long but pump from signal groups don't last long. After a pump is a flash dump.
December 28, 2020, 12:24:55 AM
I voted yes, but it doesn't mean a pump and dump groups are reliable to join to gain profit. No, it's not!
You can completely join a free signal group at your own risk, at least you know that the owner of that free signal group will earn more than the members because they know when is the selling point compared to the member.
For me, I avoided this kind of group because I don't have enough time to monitor their activity, as a member, you should 24/7 awake.
You can completely join a free signal group at your own risk, at least you know that the owner of that free signal group will earn more than the members because they know when is the selling point compared to the member.
For me, I avoided this kind of group because I don't have enough time to monitor their activity, as a member, you should 24/7 awake.
December 28, 2020, 12:01:13 AM
Quite an easy yes in my opinion. In most cases, especially with the typical _ʌ_ chart of crypto pnds, it's just the sort of "group leader" and a minority of other members are the ones that end up making money, while the other majority are left underwater holding a worthless bag of assets. Though I guess it also depends on how the pnd is advertised.
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