Does cryptocurrency mining produce more pollution? - page 2.

CryptoBry

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Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Is the carbon footprint of these mining operations large enough to make a large impact on the world or it doesn’t really cause a lot of pollution in the long run. What do you guys think and are there any greener solutions for mining cryptocurrencies?

There is no question that since Bitcoin mining is requiring a lot of energy, there will always be carbon footprint involved. However, we have to understand that all industries are contributing to the build-up of carbon monoxide and other pollutants in the environment. Maybe what we really need is a better mining technology that is requiring less power so that once and for all we can get away from the tag of not being pro-environment. We need a greener approach to this industry and I am hoping that can be coming soon.

Firecold4

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The solution is to wait for more sophisticated and economical technology with electric power sources so that it can reduce pollution because as we know it is not possible to replace the power source to other power sources because every electronic must use electricity to run

Darooghe

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Firstly, most crypto miners are typically in locations with extremely cheap energy, due to an energy surplus. this means that if Crypto miners were not using the energy, it would go to waste anyways. Secondly Let's see what is the energy use of the banking system with all it's servers and offices everywhere full of client computers, ATM's, service points where the lights always stay on transportation of cash, etc. I am sure it is very larger than Crypto mining. Third with migrating to a PoS or other protocol you can get less than 1% of the energy use compared to current consumption of crypto mining.

Murat

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I don't think so, Cryptocurrency mining is not producing any harmful thing to the environment so far, If you compare with other economic activities then you see a lot of electricity wastage, but many cryptocurrency miners are using alternative electricity so it doesn't bring anything negative to the environment, it's very clear that cryptocurrency mining is not producing any gases like our vehicles, industrial factory and so on, so it's safe for our environment. most important thing is that electricity was invented for human daily life so using in cryptocurrency mining is not any harm from my opinion.

blckhawk

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Compared to a global scale, it's not that much. In addition, ASICs are getting more energy efficient over time. Technological advancements happen as time pass by and energy consumption would lessen as these hardwares would require less energy to produce the same, if not better performance than previous chips.

Banking do use energy too, from facilities, establishments and such. It's quite comparable but the thing is cryptocurrency does not need much miscellaneous facilities.

hello_good_sir

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Quote from: squatter on November 26, 2019, 04:50:45 PM

Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Ever since cryptocurrency has existed people have started to mine it using their PCs or Miners’ GPUs. Considering that cryptocurrency mining consumes a lot of electricity because of it using a lot of processing power, does it really cause a large ecological impact on the world?

The energy used in Bitcoin mining is largely renewable and green -- solar, hydro, wind. Solar and wind are becoming the cheapest forms of electricity, so this trend will only continue. See here: Bitcoin mining is greener than most large-scale industries: report

Not, that is what is going to change the climate issue, if people are renewable energy sources, they can use as much as they want. Personally, solar is becoming extremely useful and cheap, in my own country, the government gives out grants to people who want to buy solar panels, and they make back their money in cheaper electricity very quickly.

Quote from: ranochigo on November 26, 2019, 05:40:59 PM

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Its important to note that due to the nature of ASICs, it is difficult to repurpose them for anything else. This makes it more economical to dispose them directly as opposed to recycling them. It thus contribute to the problem of e-waste.

Isn't this the same issue with a lot of computers? There are actually a lot of people who run computer recycling plants, and most of it comes down to plastic, and that's the main problem with computers and other stuff since it's extremely hard to dispose of them.

NavI_027

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Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Is the carbon footprint of these mining operations large enough to make a large impact on the world or it doesn’t really cause a lot of pollution in the long run.

Psh, why being botherd by the little damage contributed by the mining machines if millions of automobiles and hundreds of industrial plants already did a lot. If we compare the damage done by both parties, crypto mining is not so significant. So instead of focusing on it, we should regulate more the use of bigger engines in our industry.

I guess the only thing we could do to repair or to slow down what we've done is to use greener ways — renewable energy; or invent more efficient but less power consuming mining rigs in the future

. And if someone insist that using fiat is cleaner then he should think twice, think all of the trees it consumed. Guess who is cleaner now Roll Eyes

.

Artemis3

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Quote from: Slow death on November 26, 2019, 01:42:43 PM

Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Ever since cryptocurrency has existed people have started to mine it using their PCs or Miners’ GPUs. Considering that cryptocurrency mining consumes a lot of electricity because of it using a lot of processing power, does it really cause a large ecological impact on the world?

Every time I see mining operations around the world, there are multiple miners in one place ranging from dozens to even hundreds in for those who can afford a lot of miners. That got me thinking that since there are a lot of GPUs running at once then it must use a lot of electricity which means that power plants, as a result, will need to generate more electricity which will lead to more pollution.

Is the carbon footprint of these mining operations large enough to make a large impact on the world or it doesn’t really cause a lot of pollution in the long run.
What do you guys think and are there any greener solutions for mining cryptocurrencies?

I know this has been discussed several times, but what you should ask yourself is:

How Long Will Bitcoin Mining Be Sustainable? If miners now complain that they have losses or make very little profit, then I wonder what mining will be like 10 years from now? the cost of electricity will be much higher 10 years from now and how will mining be? Some people may tell me that the bitcoin price will also be much higher than the current price, but I ask again what if the bitcoin price is not much higher 10 years from now?

Exactly. It is not even sure it will remain profitable to mine 10 more years, in my opinion it will not. Large mining operations will come to an end, those that remain will be those with free energy, or those few that don't care to spend more to mine.

While bitcoin price will keep climbing, this is not in sync with mining profitability. In fact you can see for yourself how mining gradually becomes less and less profitable, and with every halving this becomes more and more so.

The greener solution is, the market. Just wait it out, and you'll see for yourself. All those miners you see struggling to pay bills, they will all go. Only those that don't care about "the bill" will remain.

boris2470

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Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Ever since cryptocurrency has existed people have started to mine it using their PCs or Miners’ GPUs. Considering that cryptocurrency mining consumes a lot of electricity because of it using a lot of processing power, does it really cause a large ecological impact on the world?

Every time I see mining operations around the world, there are multiple miners in one place ranging from dozens to even hundreds in for those who can afford a lot of miners. That got me thinking that since there are a lot of GPUs running at once then it must use a lot of electricity which means that power plants, as a result, will need to generate more electricity which will lead to more pollution.

Is the carbon footprint of these mining operations large enough to make a large impact on the world or it doesn’t really cause a lot of pollution in the long run.
What do you guys think and are there any greener solutions for mining cryptocurrencies?

Mining is based on electricity consumption. That is why there are probably no alternatives

Baofeng

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This has been discussed so many times in this community:

Is Bitcoin Mining Really Causing Environmental Damage? Maybe not that much...
Power consumption of Bitcoin mining
Reports of bitcoin environmental damage are garbage
Fake News Of The Day: "Bitcoin Mining Is A Growing Environmental Threat"
Bitcoin is Bad for the environment, taking the worlds energy - yes?
Can actually Bitcoin be good for the environment?

So I don't know if we really need another thread about that so called effects of bitcoin mining to the environment, just saying.

tippytoes

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Quote from: ranochigo on November 26, 2019, 05:40:59 PM

Quote from: squatter on November 26, 2019, 04:50:45 PM

Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Ever since cryptocurrency has existed people have started to mine it using their PCs or Miners’ GPUs. Considering that cryptocurrency mining consumes a lot of electricity because of it using a lot of processing power, does it really cause a large ecological impact on the world?

The energy used in Bitcoin mining is largely renewable and green -- solar, hydro, wind. Solar and wind are becoming the cheapest forms of electricity, so this trend will only continue. See here: Bitcoin mining is greener than most large-scale industries: report

Regarding coal-fired and other fossil fuel electricity, Bitcoin miners also utilize already-generated electricity that would otherwise be wasted by grid inefficiencies. In other words, a non-zero portion of the hash rate isn't really adding to electricity consumption. It's taking excess electricity that's already been generated. This is called "load balancing." Some people predict that large-scale Bitcoin miners will increasingly strike up load balancing agreements with power generators because it's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

It doesn't matter if its generated by renewable energy or not. In countries like China, a lot of the farms uses renewable energy. It is mostly due to their proximity to such facilities. However, most parts of the countries are still largely dependent on coal as a method of producing electricity. The energy that was utilised could very well be used to supply to others and the dependence on coal would be much lower. Until the whole world is using renewable energy, Bitcoin would still have some contributions to the pollution, albeit indirectly.

Its important to note that due to the nature of ASICs, it is difficult to repurpose them for anything else. This makes it more economical to dispose them directly as opposed to recycling them. It thus contribute to the problem of e-waste.

Everything that we do somehow contribute to pollution so bitcoin mining should not be given an isolated case. Banks and other commercial institutions largely contribute to this pollution issue as well. But I believe with crypto usage, we somehow reduce the pollution that it create along the way. Just take for example, if you want to convert your crypto to fiat, you only need few transactions and you're good to go. Less paper trail, less docs, less incurred waste, less time consumed. So that alone will give you an idea how crypto can reduce the waste that we are generating by dealing with crypto. And with the miners on the works, we will incur even less time for our crypto transactions. Less energy is being utilized eventually.

DreamStage

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Considering electricity is used for mining and producing bitcoin takes time.

Time makes more pollution due to energy convertion into electricity so yes we can say it produces more.

But in case there's a small window and possibility to make it so the base source for that electricty comes from a clean source,
then for sure it would be more clean and a reliable solution for mining thus not poluting.

For that to happen every material being used for mining would have to come from a clean source which isn't possible currently.

ranochigo

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Quote from: squatter on November 26, 2019, 04:50:45 PM

Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Ever since cryptocurrency has existed people have started to mine it using their PCs or Miners’ GPUs. Considering that cryptocurrency mining consumes a lot of electricity because of it using a lot of processing power, does it really cause a large ecological impact on the world?

The energy used in Bitcoin mining is largely renewable and green -- solar, hydro, wind. Solar and wind are becoming the cheapest forms of electricity, so this trend will only continue. See here: Bitcoin mining is greener than most large-scale industries: report

Regarding coal-fired and other fossil fuel electricity, Bitcoin miners also utilize already-generated electricity that would otherwise be wasted by grid inefficiencies. In other words, a non-zero portion of the hash rate isn't really adding to electricity consumption. It's taking excess electricity that's already been generated. This is called "load balancing." Some people predict that large-scale Bitcoin miners will increasingly strike up load balancing agreements with power generators because it's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

It doesn't matter if its generated by renewable energy or not. In countries like China, a lot of the farms uses renewable energy. It is mostly due to their proximity to such facilities. However, most parts of the countries are still largely dependent on coal as a method of producing electricity. The energy that was utilised could very well be used to supply to others and the dependence on coal would be much lower. Until the whole world is using renewable energy, Bitcoin would still have some contributions to the pollution, albeit indirectly.

Its important to note that due to the nature of ASICs, it is difficult to repurpose them for anything else. This makes it more economical to dispose them directly as opposed to recycling them. It thus contribute to the problem of e-waste.

squatter

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Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Ever since cryptocurrency has existed people have started to mine it using their PCs or Miners’ GPUs. Considering that cryptocurrency mining consumes a lot of electricity because of it using a lot of processing power, does it really cause a large ecological impact on the world?

The energy used in Bitcoin mining is largely renewable and green -- solar, hydro, wind. Solar and wind are becoming the cheapest forms of electricity, so this trend will only continue. See here: Bitcoin mining is greener than most large-scale industries: report

Regarding coal-fired and other fossil fuel electricity, Bitcoin miners also utilize already-generated electricity that would otherwise be wasted by grid inefficiencies. In other words, a non-zero portion of the hash rate isn't really adding to electricity consumption. It's taking excess electricity that's already been generated. This is called "load balancing." Some people predict that large-scale Bitcoin miners will increasingly strike up load balancing agreements with power generators because it's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Oh definitely! The reason on why most cryptocurrency miners choose a designated location for their mining is due to the amount of energy used during the entire process. Countries who have a tropical climate are at a disadvantage, as the amount of energy would increase thus more cost in during the process of mining.
The pollution it creates not only contribute to the climate but also to the aggregate pollution as well.

This is also the reason on why most equipment in the mining have been thrown-out and rarely do you see them recycle by other users and miners.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Kyraishi on November 26, 2019, 03:30:07 PM

Jesus, that's a lot... Very interesting actually.

Exactly. If you look at the guy above complaining that cryptocurrency mining is responsible for 10 million tonnes of CO₂, then sure, that sounds like an awful lot, but put it in context and it is next to nothing. First of all, he conveniently misses out the fact that that is over a 3 year period (2016 - 2018), meaning the real figure is 3.33 million tonnes per year. Console gaming (not including PC and mobile gaming) generates 30 million tonnes a year. Streaming online pornography generates 100 million tonnes per year. Global CO₂ production is around 40 billion tonnes per year, making bitcoin less than 0.01%.

Bitcoin is a fraction of a drop in the ocean.

AndySt

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Quote from: uneng on November 26, 2019, 03:18:33 PM

Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Is the carbon footprint of these mining operations large enough to make a large impact on the world or it doesn’t really cause a lot of pollution in the long run.
What do you guys think and are there any greener solutions for mining cryptocurrencies?

I think it won't cause much damage on long run because green clean energy solutions are even more common and powerful nowadays. There is solar, wind, hydro energy sources and many investiments going on these concepts, like Tesla business, which is making a big success with solar energy production and development.
We shouldn't fear the usage of technology thinking it is harming the planet or something like this, otherwise we wouldn't be on the current technological developed level we are today. Pollution is a consequence of this technological improvement, until we achieve the perfection we need to accept the *collateral effects*.

The most important thing is that the *collateral effects* do not bury modern civilization under them. The entire current struggle for green energy and technology often degenerates into a shift from environmentally and economically prosperous countries to poor countries that cannot afford such luxuries. But the earth is one and it will surely boomerang back.
And if you dig deep, you can find harm in green technologies - hydroelectric power plants, for example, destroy the ecosystem downstream.

Harlot

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Harlot on November 26, 2019, 02:38:28 PM

~snip~

Sorry, but crypto mining firms using hydroelectric for example.
Draw Power away from the Grid, in the past the Dams would sell their excess to another utility,
this other utility uses Coal Plants or Diesel Generators or Nuclear Plants.
Which means when the mining firm uses all of the Dam's excess energy, the other utility has to use more coal, or diesel , or Nuclear to keep their side of the grid stable. Which can be even worse, if the Dam has to Buy from the other utility using coal,diesel, or nuclear, because the miners are exceeding their Dam's generating capacity.

All Crypto PoW Miners increase Pollution, even the ones using all renewable energy. Tongue

FYI:
What people need to understand is the electric grid is composed of multiple sources of electricity ,
when someone sucks up the majority of a cleaner renewable energy, then the difference is made up by the dirtier pollution causing ones.

Well we are only talking about dams here that is being shared by the public but what about dams or renewable energy built for that certain purpose and that is too only generate electricity enough to run their mining operations? I've read dozens of articles before where mining farms are buying off decommissioned or unused renewable developing facilities which means they aren't sharing to nobody but themselves., just like this one. Still this can't prove that crypto mining is more dirtier compared to the things I have previously said.

Kyraishi

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Quote from: adaseb on November 26, 2019, 12:45:39 AM

So just like banks and offices leave their lights on at night for security bitcoin is no different. It needs to require something that is available for most at a cost for decentralization and security.

Hmhm. A banks electricity spent on powering their offices can probably cover all of the electricity used to power bitcoin mining operations. Currently, there is not a big enough carbon footprint to care, but this is definelty food for thought.

We need to move away from burning fossil fuels, and instead move to a more renewable future, where we are powered off wind, water and solar electriciy.

Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on November 26, 2019, 01:25:32 PM

Quote from: Ailmand on November 26, 2019, 12:50:51 AM

It has been discussed a lot of times in this forum. Some mining farms use alternative energy since it is more cost-efficient and environment-friendly. Even paper money, digital cash, banks cause pollution, imagine the amount of plastic and papers and energy they consume to produce cards, money, coins, ATM, receipts and etc.

Another overlooked point of energy use is video streaming. ref https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45798523
From the article:

Quote

The lead scientist, Rabih Bashroush, calculated that five billion downloads and streams clocked up by the song Despacito, released in 2017, consumed as much electricity as Chad, Guinea-Bissau, Somalia, Sierra Leone and the Central African Republic put together in a single year.

All in all it makes the energy used by crypto mining rather insignificant. Wink

Jesus, that's a lot... Very interesting actually.

uneng

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Quote from: PotterMiner777 on November 26, 2019, 12:36:08 AM

Is the carbon footprint of these mining operations large enough to make a large impact on the world or it doesn’t really cause a lot of pollution in the long run.
What do you guys think and are there any greener solutions for mining cryptocurrencies?

I think it won't cause much damage on long run because green clean energy solutions are even more common and powerful nowadays. There is solar, wind, hydro energy sources and many investiments going on these concepts, like Tesla business, which is making a big success with solar energy production and development.
We shouldn't fear the usage of technology thinking it is harming the planet or something like this, otherwise we wouldn't be on the current technological developed level we are today. Pollution is a consequence of this technological improvement, until we achieve the perfection we need to accept the *collateral effects*.

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