Topic: Dont let them fool you. We will see a NEW BOTTOM. Maybe BTC at 3400$ again? - page 4. (Read 1376 times)

I agree with you we should not be tempted by the current increase in bitcoin. because there is a possibility that bitcoin will be a big dump before it is reduced by half. but in my opinion it won't fall until the price of $ 3,400 is too low. in my opinion the lowest point of bitcoin when it falls is $ 5k. so we must still have a target to sell and buy. and don't expect too much for bitcoin increase.

+1
really i enjoyed reading all the data he provided above , some is makes sense and some others doubtful.

well that is normal to disagree on certain points,
especially when you talking about how the manipulation is clearly happening with altcoin holders has loss over 90% in value since the last bubble two years ago.

here in crypto everything seems like unpredictable due the fact nobody has an ability to interrupting the market like what you have mentioned about with 500 million usd you can dump and pump the market for around 10% or so , guess when you did that the market could responded unexpectedly like when the price of bitcoin move up from $700 to $20000 , those people who waiting for the new bottom has left out lol , will you?

Bitcoin could go high, it could go high unlike anyone imagine it could, however, lets assume the biggest we can go is 50k and we can't go anything higher, we try and try and try and we fail to go any higher, that doesn't mean people will give up and price will go down and eventually bitcoin will be a thing of the past, if bitcoins max price that it could go is 50k, then we will keep on pressuring $50k and stay around those prices, that's it.

Sure, there will be ups and downs constantly in bitcoin world and sure we will see price dropping down but that doesn't mean that we will end up with a low price because people will give up, it has been over 10 years now and we haven't given up yet so I doubt we will give up after all these years of volatility, hell even the people that bought in 2017 peak haven't all given up just yet, no one else ever will.

well, sorry for that in red, I was definitely not angry. I am just stating my point of view so people is aware of what could come, instead of keeping with BTC's opium of everlasting increasing profits.

I don't rely on any expert at all, with my academic knowledge and more than 2 decades trading I think I can trust my own experience.

There are many cryptos, 99% of them are pure bullshit and a purge is mandatory. I think BTC is a pioneer, but being the king won't last forever.. Don't believe me? You can ask the respective CEOs of Microsoft Messenger, Blockbuster, Kodak, Myspace, Blackberry, Nokia.. and many more. BTC has a huge problems of scalability, low speed, high cost, an INSANE environmental cost (exponential increased minning difficulty), and a disgusting manipulation due to monopolization of whales (mininn groups, exchanges.. ). I am absolutely the opinion that it will be replaced by other cryptos in the long term.

I claimed that people promoting Yobit in signature, were really not aware of what they were doing (working for cmc i received TONS of complaints against the exchange). But before you call shitcoin the coin in my avatar, you should at least inform yourself. But don't worry, I am not going to dip to your level and appear as disrespectful and reckless as you , claiming that the bitcoin mixer's purpose you promote in your avatar is focused on human trafficking, drugs, terrorism or whatever.. why? because before I prefer to be informed before I make an statement.. Just for your info, that seem are just blinded by BTC's maximalism opium, there is mcuh more outside, not just BTC. HEard about renaissance technologies before? https://qz.com/1741907/renaissance-technologies-jim-simons-and-the-birth-of-quant-trading/
Anyone that invested 100$ in 1988, obtained $401M in 2018. Take a calculator, do your maths (that is an average 66% yearly ROI).. and that was with traditional markets (commodities, forex, stocks, bonds..). The company I am working for is doing something similar, but rigth now working with cryptoassets.. yes, this company you just call shit achieved a 1376% ROI since its inception in 4th may 2019, at the time of writing this post. For your info, this is algorithm trading is nothing more than optimizing functions to maximize profits, and could be applied not just in crypto, but also in any other markets.. so we don't need just crypto to survive, and this is why we got interest from other trading companies, venture capitals and funds.

If you want to communicate with people in the forum, first learn how to use quote and edit posts, otherwise, it looks pretty ugly and messy, very hard to follow.

The fact that you started using red is also an indicator that you are angry which comes from the fact that your venture is not exactly going the way you planned. All your assumptions come from research by various so-called experts, you think the future of BTC can only be predicted by number of addresses and number of transactions?

I don't know what you expected BTC to achieve in 10 years? That bankers and fiat will surrender and say that BTC is the perfect currency or store of value? It is a process that is clearly beyond what you can imagine, but you're just focused on institutional money, massive adoption that is failing in your opinion or some crypto-fiat - centralized stable coins that will replace BTC?

When you talk about crypto you mean all altcoins (shitcoins) which are only for the pump-dump scheme, but why you put BTC in the same basket with them? BTC is not a perfect coin, but it is have something others do not have, no matter what you think before or what you think now. 5 years ago I was reading the same posts you write now, and I will read them in 2025.

In what you believe at this point? In that shitcoin you promote in your sig&avatar? "1100% ROI since May 2019", sounds great, it's no wonder you've become pessimistic about BTC.

It is not about who is at the top, it is about their ability to move the market at their will.
So you seem any similarity in a market like FOrex where 5 Trillions are traded on a daily basis, with BTC, which has been pumped/dumped many times around a 10%, with just 500 millions traded.

And this is exactly the same for any market in the entire world. There are a few at the top and a bunch of nobodies below them. It's how everywhere and everything works. Framing it as some type of revelation has failed to shake my world.

Those at the top are more keen to screw each other than the nothings. The nothings come along for the ride.

We seem to get posts like this fairly often where the author believes they've uncovered a truth no one else has ever conceived of. Then they usually pursue it as far as they can take it and go down in flames. I prefer to sit back and let be what will be.

Why do you guys assume whales are always successful at manipulating the market, always increasing their holdings? Whales compete against one another, and those who fight against the market get harpooned. Here's a counterpoint to your narrative:


As you pointed out, Bitcoin's wealth concentration doesn't affect its decentralized nature as money either. Whales can fight each other on the order book all they want, but at the end of the day, they can't change the fact that 1 BTC = 1 BTC. The economy will keep chugging along regardless of what they do.

the problem will begin is this 5K is not just only next stop and drops further

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Just one thing, dont get wrong with this concept:
- BTC is insanely monopolized, and this is out of discussion, only crazy BTC maximalist high on hopium can't see it
- but BTC is effectively decentralized, meaning that your BTC is really yours, no one will confiscate it (state, exchange..) meanwhile you keep the keys

Thanks for adding value to the conversation. This is the point, find a way to solve th ebiggest problem of BTC (appart from low scalability, high transfer fees, low speed, INSANE harm to environment due to exponentially increasing minning cost....)
Honestly I don't see any solution to monopolization's problem. Whales will keep on playing and increasing their holdings with their P&D schemes.. and this is why I think BTC is doomed to fail. Who will catch up next? another existing crypto? a fiat crypto? a new crypto?.. who knows..

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The problem is that them that will lose are the newcomers and there are in a really unfair disadvantage. This is why we are deploying an algorithm trading system that will give a chance to newbies to succeed

actually the opposite of this flow has also crept into my mind. I think if everyone fomo about bitcoin in 2020 and everyone buys it and makes a profit, then who will lost? This financial market always has winners and losers, the majority lose more. then sharks would use this opportunity to sell bitcoin to fomo-only people. so I still keep myself safe and invest only 50% of my capital at the earliest time.

That's true. Just one whale can move the market at will, because of the huge disparity in the distribution. Also the market is very small and there are exchanges with only 100btc in circulation, easy targets for a single whale.

What would you propose to prevent such manipulation? Self-regulation by the exchanges themselves would not work, since some of them would choose to not have any, to attract more customers, and soon the sheep would flock there, causing losses for the other exchanges... I dont see any other solution than to have the State boot in the exchange's faces, allowing no more than 1% rises and drops per day, since the price manipulation comes from these highly centralized exchanges.

Lets face the fact that bitcoin failed completely at decentralization, since, like you have stated and its a known fact, most addresses are in the hands of a few, and the situation will only get worse, as at any dump most of those buying are themselves, accumulating more and more. State intervention will be inevitable in the long run, and innocent people might suffer from it, since State bureaucrats are not known for being technologically knowledgeable. So what do you propose? The scenario seems very dystopian for a solution that might be good for all.

exactly the point ,because those who were trapped from buying in 2017 surely had released their holdings last september 2019 because at least 14k$ is not much lose than in the beginning of 2019.
and those who bought in early 2019 will be in profit even if the new bottom is $5000 because it is much higher that $3000 value last January 2019 .

You hit it.. BTC went VERY high, but this exponential gain can't last forever. the jump from 1$ to 100$ , it is no like the same from 100$ to 100.000$ .. both are a x1000$, but let's do some calculations and try to think about marketcaps...
 LEt's be serious... people like MacAfee, talking about 1M. per BTC?¿ wtf?¿  this is just nonsense.. just think about marketcap then. 21 trillions, sounds feasible? I doubt it

The real problem with newbies, is that they are totally biased and have their brain washed. They will get rekt, and still don't know it. And when I talk about newbies, I am not only talking about these "Newbie" ranked members.  I realized that here in forum  are many high rank members that don't like to hear and think about what will happen when they discover they were wrong. But hey.. meanwhile, they can keep on with the advices of their favourite cryptoguru in youtuber or twitter. Later there will be time to cry or for others, sadly to commit suicide.

What I claim is that any whale of them will pump or dump the price. There is no safety for the retail investor..
By the wya, I wonder where do you get these numbers.. The 0,53% of addresses are 153180 addresses that control 86,17% of BTC's supply.. said that, another 14 millions addresses own the remaining 13,83%. Seems well distributed?
And for a pump, they don't need to collude at all, just one address with few thousands will do the trick.

The big takeaway here is that nobody knows where Bitcoin can be months or years from now, yes it can go down but on the same breath it can also go up, again nobody knows. In other words, we should not be listening too much with people who are predicting that Bitcoin can be a million dollar value in a specific year on the other hand the same is true with people who are predicting that Bitcoin can get so low despite the many reasons that it should not. Remember that in the beginning, nobody ever thought that Bitcoin can come this long even with its current value, it was more of a gamble and a gamble that really paid well. Newbies, of course, must make their due diligence by looking at the many possible risks here, nobody should be going into anything blindfolded.

Take out exchange addresses and custody addresses like Grayscale, Coinbase, Bitgo and Xapo and you're left with a less mad figure. Probably vastly less mad.

Even if we ignore that, 0.53% of 18,100,000 or so coins is about 96,000 addresses.

I'm sure quite a few people own more than one of those. All the same you're trying to tell us that a few tens of thousands of people will all collude as one against everyone else?

Righto.

Are you blind? a 0,53% of addresses own a 85% of BTC's supply. That is a ridiculous amount when compared to the total of addresses available. HUGE manipulation. If you can't see that you are blind. I did my best, to make you all wake, and I won't feel sad for all of you that lose your money for having your brain washed.. you deserve it if you just didn't wanted to conduct any due dilligence at all.
There are still chances of making money, just with leveraged trading taking advantage of price swing (due to whales manipulation of course.. ) just today, 200$ down in few minutes.. and another 100$ down and again up in few fminutes also.. yeahh seems very organic, a lot of people will be interested in investing in an asset that rises,drops and rises again a 2,5% without any reason at all. sure... (ironic)

Thank you for that very detailed information with some good presentation.

yes, I truly believe that the market could be manipulated due to the facts you shared, however, I also think it's still possible to see a bull run because if they can manipulate to cause a bull run last time, it could also happen this time around, but we need to ensure that we get out at the right time because we don't wanna become a "BAGHOLDER" again.

OP you're making a big deal out of nothing. There's a simple reason why addresses with over 0.1 BTC make up for about 12% of all addresses. All businesses exchanges even your wallets are making new addresses to keep the change. For this reason 50% of all addresses are almost empty and it doesn't mean there's manipulation in the air.

Your mistake is believing that all those almost empty/empty and all those full addresses belong to different people. That if there's 14 million addresses with some change on them there's 14 million people in the space with nothing to say about the price. 14 million victims. It's a wrong approach!

What if we only have 2 million unique people in the space who own Bitcoin? What if all those 20 million addresses with less than 0.01 BTC on it belong to the same 2 million people who own all those addresses containing 1 Bitcoin or more?

The increase of price was probably (as always) pumped by  whale and it is not a clear indicator of more interest in BTC. please do this:turn off the computer, go out.. and ask 50 strangers about how much Bitcoin they OWN (in case they already know about BTC). You will be surprised, this is a promise. Then please come again and share your findings. thanks

About the open interest, with the recent pump OI raised from 600M. to almost nearly 800Millions in a while in world's most popular exchange for leverage trading.. It is a matte rof time until it goes to1  billion again as it did some months ago, and Bitmex Snipper begins the long liquidation party of overleveraged users