Don't you guys think it's time for LN to have it's own (sub)section now?

ABCbits

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Quote from: DaveF on April 13, 2021, 10:27:09 AM

Once again, IMO, it's kind of a loop.
There are other places to talk about LN and things. So, I can post here, and possibly get a reply or 2. Or I can post in a discord discussion and get a lot more responses.
So, I don't post something about LN here, someone else does not post something about LN here, because we can get it answered elsewhere. And people say "we don't need a separate place for it in the forum" because there are not that many people posting about it.

-Dave

I don't know about discord group you joined, but since this forum moderate spam more seriously, it's not weird to see few reply on certain topic. People no longer post if all they say is "It's great", "'I don't know" or other non-helpful answer which usually will be removed anyway.

Rath_

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Quote from: malevolent on April 13, 2021, 03:46:46 PM

BTW, which discord channel can you recommend for LN-related discussions?

I am not aware of any Discord servers, but I have been in this Telegram channel for quite some time now. It is surprisingly active, but not on-topic all the time.

Quote from: ABCbits on April 14, 2021, 04:34:44 AM

I don't know about discord group you joined, but since this forum moderate spam more seriously, it's not weird to see few reply on certain topic. People no longer post if all they say is "It's great", "'I don't know" or other non-helpful answer which usually will be removed anyway.

I think that you might have missed his point. I missed some LN threads, which I could have answered, because I mostly browse "Development & Technical Discussion" and "Bitcoin Technical Support" boards. If there was a dedicated section then there might be a higher chance of getting accurate answers just like you could get them on some LN related Discord/Telegram channel.

malevolent

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Quote from: DaveF on April 13, 2021, 10:27:09 AM

Once again, IMO, it's kind of a loop.
There are other places to talk about LN and things. So, I can post here, and possibly get a reply or 2. Or I can post in a discord discussion and get a lot more responses.
So, I don't post something about LN here, someone else does not post something about LN here, because we can get it answered elshere. And people say "we don't need a separate place for it in the forum"

-Dave

If you have something interesting to say about LN, or perhaps you have found a solution to something that you believe other people may have problems with, it might be good to post about it in one of the LN threads anyway.

BTW, which discord channel can you recommend for LN-related discussions?

DaveF

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Quote from: NotATether on April 08, 2021, 01:10:09 PM

Quote from: DaveF on April 08, 2021, 12:48:50 PM

Was for it over a year ago, still think it's a good idea now.
There is a large amount of LN discussion elsewhere on the internet, but here it's just in a few threads.
With a dedicated sub section I really think that it will have a lot more activity.

-Dave

Getting more activity depends on more people asking questions about it, and so far we are not seeing that.

mprep already said he's not going to add another section unless their topics fill most of the page of a board. I can count the number of LN topics on page 1 of Dev&Tech board on one hand.

Once again, IMO, it's kind of a loop.
There are other places to talk about LN and things. So, I can post here, and possibly get a reply or 2. Or I can post in a discord discussion and get a lot more responses.
So, I don't post something about LN here, someone else does not post something about LN here, because we can get it answered elsewhere. And people say "we don't need a separate place for it in the forum" because there are not that many people posting about it.

-Dave

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Quote from: malevolent on April 11, 2021, 03:23:10 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 11, 2021, 02:16:53 AM

There is still an Armory sub, and there hasn't been any commits to their public GitHub repo in over two years, and there are issues without discussion from over a year ago, making me believe the devs have all but abandoned the project.

It's not abandoned, check out other branches: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/branches/all, especially the development branch: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/commits/dev

Also: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/issues/657 It's just that only one person is working on it, probably with more important stuff on his mind day to day.

Ahh, you're right. It is interesting there would be so much activity on the dev branch, and no merges into production after so long.

Quote from: malevolent on April 11, 2021, 03:23:10 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 11, 2021, 02:16:53 AM

The cost of keeping a sub open is low, and there are a lot of existing threads in both the Armory and Mycellium subs that people can search and review. The development of wallet software has improved over the years, and there are not the same amount of bugs there were five years ago, so users of wallet software largely don't have problems running the various wallet software.

Yes. Mycelium's popularity also stems from the fact that it was easy to use and 'just worked'. I found mobile Electrum to be very buggy when trying it out years ago.

I think the deterministic generation of addresses, the standardization of derivation paths, and of seeds has made it easier to develop wallet software and has made it not as big of a deal if there are problems with the software because the consumer's money will be safe as long as the software can calculate the addresses correctly.

The above principles are important if LN is going to be successful. LN wallet software needs to have a good mechanism for not losing the latest channel state, and associated transactions if it will be successful.

malevolent

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 11, 2021, 02:16:53 AM

There is still an Armory sub, and there hasn't been any commits to their public GitHub repo in over two years, and there are issues without discussion from over a year ago, making me believe the devs have all but abandoned the project.

It's not abandoned, check out other branches: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/branches/all, especially the development branch: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/commits/dev

Also: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/issues/657 It's just that only one person is working on it, probably with more important stuff on his mind day to day.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on April 11, 2021, 02:16:53 AM

The cost of keeping a sub open is low, and there are a lot of existing threads in both the Armory and Mycellium subs that people can search and review. The development of wallet software has improved over the years, and there are not the same amount of bugs there were five years ago, so users of wallet software largely don't have problems running the various wallet software.

Yes. Mycelium's popularity also stems from the fact that it was easy to use and 'just worked'. I found mobile Electrum to be very buggy when trying it out years ago.

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Quote from: malevolent on April 10, 2021, 09:34:31 PM

So to give a better perspective, 25 threads over 13+ weeks this year compared with 11 threads in Mycelium's dedicated child-board over the same period of time.

Quote from: Rath_ on April 09, 2021, 05:53:23 PM

What about the Mycelium section then? There doesn't seem to be much activity and yet it exists. Was there any particular reason why it was created?

I don't know what's the current popularity ranking of Bitcoin wallets, or mobile Bitcoin wallets, but at one point (~2013-2016) Mycelium was the most popular mobile Bitcoin wallet, and a very popular one altogether even when compared with desktop wallets. There are more wallets now, a lot of people use exchanges as wallets anyway, and bitcointalk also competes for attention with other Internet venues, so all of these factors influence why that section isn't very active.

There is still an Armory sub, and there hasn't been any commits to their public GitHub repo in over two years, and there are issues without discussion from over a year ago, making me believe the devs have all but abandoned the project.

The cost of keeping a sub open is low, and there are a lot of existing threads in both the Armory and Mycellium subs that people can search and review. The development of wallet software has improved over the years, and there are not the same amount of bugs there were five years ago, so users of wallet software largely don't have problems running the various wallet software.

malevolent

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So to give a better perspective, 25 threads over 13+ weeks this year compared with 11 threads in Mycelium's dedicated child-board over the same period of time.

Quote from: Rath_ on April 09, 2021, 05:53:23 PM

What about the Mycelium section then? There doesn't seem to be much activity and yet it exists. Was there any particular reason why it was created?

I don't know what's the current popularity ranking of Bitcoin wallets, or mobile Bitcoin wallets, but at one point (~2013-2016) Mycelium was the most popular mobile Bitcoin wallet, and a very popular one altogether even when compared with desktop wallets. There are more wallets now, a lot of people use exchanges as wallets anyway, and bitcointalk also competes for attention with other Internet venues, so all of these factors influence why that section isn't very active.

Rath_

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Quote from: Quickseller on April 08, 2021, 08:40:01 AM

I would ask if it is common for posts to get "lost" that might otherwise get responded to because there are too many other posts?

I guess it happened a few times, but I think it's more common for the LN related threads to be scattered across various boards. Here's a list that I put together:

2021
Bitcoin Discussion: 1, 2, 3, 4
Development & Technical Discussion: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Wallet Software: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Electrum: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Bitcoin Technical Support: 1, 2, 3
Beginners & Help: 1

2020
Bitcoin Discussion: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
Development & Technical Discussion: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Electrum: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Wallet Software: 1, 2, 3
Bitcoin Technical Support: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Beginners & Help: 1, 2, 3
Altcoin Discussion: 1

What about the Mycelium section then? There doesn't seem to be much activity and yet it exists. Was there any particular reason why it was created?

NotATether

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Quote from: decodx on April 08, 2021, 04:03:09 PM

But still, it still surprises me how few people know about LN in general. When I mention it in an unrelated conversation, some ask if it's some kind of alt currency while others think it's an unofficial bitcoin fork.

I believe that a dedicated LN subsection would greatly contribute to a better understanding of LN protocol.

Putting it on Bitcoin Wiki better suits that objective.

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Quote from: darkv0rt3x on April 08, 2021, 04:07:32 PM

So, yes, it makes all sense, IMO, to have a dedicated area for 2-layer solutions.

I would agree. It should be for all 2-layer solutions though. I don't like this idea that Lightning is somehow special and more deserving than any other scaling solution put forth by anyone else. It should be grouped in with similar projects and not viewed as an extension of Bitcoin that is somehow more special because of what team is behind it.

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Hello.

Obviously that, with the increasing demand for knowledge and people using LN, and also Liquid (not me though), I think it makes all sense to have a dedicated forum (or sub-forum) for 2-layer solutions. And then maybe, do something like there is for bitcoin. A technical child, a projects child, etc etc.

I think there is plenty material, for 2-layer solutions, to have their own forum.

Also, it would make it better for searches and for narrowing the places where you need to search.

So, yes, it makes all sense, IMO, to have a dedicated area for 2-layer solutions.

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Quote from: NotATether on April 08, 2021, 01:10:09 PM

Quote from: DaveF on April 08, 2021, 12:48:50 PM

Was for it over a year ago, still think it's a good idea now.
There is a large amount of LN discussion elsewhere on the internet, but here it's just in a few threads.
With a dedicated sub section I really think that it will have a lot more activity.

-Dave

Getting more activity depends on more people asking questions about it, and so far we are not seeing that.

mprep already said he's not going to add another section unless their topics fill most of the page of a board. I can count the number of LN topics on page 1 of Dev&Tech board on one hand.

But still, it still surprises me how few people know about LN in general. When I mention it in an unrelated conversation, some ask if it's some kind of alt currency while others think it's an unofficial bitcoin fork.

I believe that a dedicated LN subsection would greatly contribute to a better understanding of LN protocol.

NotATether

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Quote from: DaveF on April 08, 2021, 12:48:50 PM

Was for it over a year ago, still think it's a good idea now.
There is a large amount of LN discussion elsewhere on the internet, but here it's just in a few threads.
With a dedicated sub section I really think that it will have a lot more activity.

-Dave

Getting more activity depends on more people asking questions about it, and so far we are not seeing that.

mprep already said he's not going to add another section unless their topics fill most of the page of a board. I can count the number of LN topics on page 1 of Dev&Tech board on one hand.

DaveF

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Was for it over a year ago, still think it's a good idea now.
There is a large amount of LN discussion elsewhere on the internet, but here it's just in a few threads.
With a dedicated sub section I really think that it will have a lot more activity.

-Dave

Quickseller

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The number on some board is small because most LN question/topic happened on one megathread, The Lightning Network FAQ.

I think this is a very valid point.

Traditionally, the need for a new sub is measured by how many threads on a topic are on the first few pages in their existing sub. A better measure might be similar to when a new local sub is created when the one megathread for the local community gets too big.

The LN megathread is currently 37 pages, and it appears that posts tend to occur there in bursts. I would ask if it is common for posts to get "lost" that might otherwise get responded to because there are too many other posts?

Rath_

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 07, 2021, 12:00:16 PM

I still think 90% of the posts will be from "Mr Millisats" himself, but if you want to contend with that freakshow, then on your head be it.

franky1 already got banned from the "Development & Technical Discussion" section, so I guess it would be only a matter of time in the Lightning/2nd layer board.

DooMAD

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