Topic: Duckdice.io [SCAM and SHADY behavior] - page 5. (Read 18396 times)

If u were the owner of the site would you let someone use ur money to play against you and without risking their own money they can get profit from you.Its like suicidal.You wont do that,of course you will make agreement.And in Duckdice.Io it is to have a wagering requirement.After all if you finish those requirement all balances will be yours.
Well If you havent try or fully understand how does the bonus on Duckdice.Io does,It goes like this.
1.You made Deposit,(You can play with your own money or Claim bonus to have additional ammo but you need to complete those wagering requirement).Not pushing you to claim it.(Optional)
2.You already claim the bonus but before you start rolling you realize that you dont have the skills to finish the wagering requirement.(Here You can Cancel the Bonus and at the same time Your deposit amount will be refunded.Why and How?Simply because you never touch it.
3.You decided to roll and wager.The locked balance goes bigger while your unlocking the bonus.(Note:Locked balance is different the Locked Volume.).And as time Goes by Your locked balance can be greater than the current Balance.(Thats what happen to oza thats why all his balance had been cancelled)
4.You are in the middle of the wagering and youd realized you cant finish it.You click on the cancel button.(Here,a message will show up saying that the locked balance will be subtracted from your current balance.)two cases here:
       your current balance is greater than the locked balance=will give
       x amount during cancelation,
       your current balance is less than the locked balance = you will
       get nothing.(this is what happen to him)
5.You finish the wagering requirements.Congratulations.All balance
    is yours.Site will take nothing from you.You can withdraw All.


I personally had claim the said bonus and succesfully unlocked it.
With the help of old players and Mods especially I understand how does the bonus goes.And so far this is the first time i heard an issue about Duckdice.Io bonuses.A user's mistake that lead to cancellation of his balance.Not reading a message upon cancellation isnt a site mistake so where and when the scam happen?

Then what's this?


https://archive.is/8f6Bz

If you claim the bonus and cancel it directly you still got your initial deposit. The locked balance grows while wagering.

First of all, it wasn't outlined in your terms about how the entire balance was canceled. When a user claims the bonus, it's too late to go back and they are forced to wager 110x or just simply lose their entire balance. That is misleading. In that case, why put a cancel button there in the first place if it's just going to make them lose all their funds?

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Suppose you deposit at my site with 1 BTC but when you withdraw I tell you that you are forced to tip 50% of all your winnings to a random chat member otherwise the balance is taken. You can not make rules appear after the fact when they are not outlined in your terms. That is simply unethical.

To be honest I do not know what do you guys are thinking or how you came to this decision . Do you really think that warning someone that you gonna kill him  even 10 times will make you not guilty !! Because that what happened here ! you have no right to take his initial bonus ( even your own rules not support you ) and he had on his account 9 BTC to cover the bonus and his initial deposit no rules in the world can allow you to take his initial deposit . no matter how many warnings you put it will not make it right .

As much as I like the fact that you guys did not ignore this thread and you was active trying to solve it ( respect for that ) . But taking money that clearly you have no right to take = scam weather you gonna give to to charity or not . Because simply it is not yours to give .

Here is our final decision:

1. Bonus algorithm:

You may not like our Bonus algorithm and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to claim it. Users are notified about exact amount that will be subtracted from the balance and there is a specially designed confirmation screen where user confirm and agree with this. DuckDice shall not be liable for users who don't read confirmation screens.

Many members in this thread gave us their insight on how Bonus algorithm should work based on their opinion and we are very grateful to all of them. We may use this expertise in the future but this does not mean that current algorithm is flawed.

2. Refund:

DuckDice will not "negotiate with terrorists". We see this case as a pure blackmail and therefore DuckDice will not make any refund. There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages. Better make a thread and ask how many members won big with our bonuses.

3. Solution:

The initial deposit of user Ozafejyw782 was 2 BTC and we will give this 2 BTC for charity. Transaction id will be added shortly

We have a negative trust because of this case now, but this doesn't frighten us, we believe that our position is correct and we will just regain user trust.

Looks like you have the same opinion with me, as long as I know most deposit bonuses will use the initial deposit first to wager and if we cancel the bonus then we will still have some balance like your example. In other case, if we win while using the initial deposit then we cancel the bonus so will will lose all the winning but still have the initial deposit.
Lose everything should be only happen when players has lost all the initial deposit and use the bonus balance then decided to cancel the bonus, no matter the players win or lose while playing with the bonus. Just my 2 cents

Site's term and conditions are nothing. Site owner should be able to put a valid reason behind all the terms and conditions which are ethical and reasonable for both site owners and its players. Let me say for example if i put a term that withdraw oa player will not be process until bitcoin drops back to 1000$ or so. Is it ethical? Sure i made it in terms and conditions but in the same way I am holding withdraw which ethically i should not hold.

Oh god, I feel so bad for you. I thought this was just an old post when Bitcoin was only like 500 USD. Dude rip that 5000 USD, I guess when DuckDice.io canceled your winning that is debatable but they have no right to just take your deposits now. This isn't your fault, the site's terms were clear and when you cancel a bonus you shouldn't have to lose all the money you deposit in the first place, this is a pretty big sum and I would maybe recommend taking legal actions because what DuckDice is doing here is totally illegal and I dont want other people getting scammed.

This is how it works:

– make a deposit
– claim bonus or not
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus (shouldn't allow a bonus to be cancelled, once applied the 30X 50X even 1000X applies)
– withdraw deposit REMAINING FUNDS
– MAYBE deposit is again

I deposit 100 and your bonus is 100% that means I have 200 to play with if I accept your bonus or it's forced upon me

I lose 25 I say forget this I want to withdraw and go

I should get my $75

But according to you............I lose everything

Please someone tell me I am wrong??  Otherwise, this is just an insane SCAM

Then I think it requires much more fair implementation.


Not many users like wagering. Many gamblers realize how hard it is to meet wagering requirements and unlock the bonus in middle of game . So what do you think about them. Will it be good to remove "Cancel" button?

*actmyname presented how much difficult it is to claim bonus.*. And many user may feel to cancel it in middle of the game. I don't think removing "cancel" button is entirely a good call.

Maybe removing bonus system is the best call.



In that case I simply want to point out where it is unethical.

(1) So what gives you the right on the users balance which he hasn't lost actually by betting?---- Is it ethical ?

Not all players do as what 1982dre said. Don't make it in this way just because some gamblers are doing bonus in a loop. In short "find an ethical way and not an unethical way (which you are doing by showing right over users balance)". I have pointed out why in my opinion it is unfair and if you still find that your dice bonus system presently is fair then despite being a player or a HR in intial stage of DuckDice , "Shady and unfair" are the only words that will pop out from my mouth regarding your dice site.

-You are right but now the problem will be his own problem because you have the  rules backing you up  . Why you keep ignore that your site did wrong by not include the rules of bonus before claiming it !! . If this was on rules page that person would have not come post on this forums about this problem because simply there will be no problem .
- Making a 2 screens pop out or even 10 after he already claimed the bonus will not makeup for not having this mentioned on rules page . I am taking about the separated page for bonus nothing on it say that initial balance will get canceled  .

 
There is simple fix for this just change the rules and make the (original balance unlocked and have to be used first ) that way there will never be a loop and your site will lose nothing if someone canceled the bonus  .

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

Bonus algorithm has not been invented by DuckDice but adopted from dice practices, our mathematician department will run simulations and based on the results we may consider new or improved algorithm.

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.

honestly i know duck dice is good site and they are fair all the time and the admins could solve the problem and satisfy all players

i could support 2 options

1st option is to get back the 2 btc deposited and you both can talk about the rest

2nd option is to give him back the status of the account before cancellation and solve the problem and all satisfied at the end

Made a spreadsheet showcasing the statistics behind wagering on the max % chance to win which would be the easiest for most to clear the bonus.

Being forced to take a gamble at 40% chances is not great... but this also highlights something else about your site.

You offer a 200% first deposit bonus for Dash, which is actually pretty +ev for people who approach it this way.

A 32.26% chance to win 5.24235328 BTC, risking 1 BTC (in Dash)

.3226 * 4.24235328 + .6774 * (-1) = 0.6912 BTC expected profit.

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Not sure about how well you might handle multiple accounts, but that bonus seems pretty appealing.

In that case change the total implementation of this bonus system. By no way a user should lose his own balance just because he decided to cancel it.

First of all bonus should be made for a limited period of time. Secondly, many sites have implemented it like whenever bonus is allowed, user plays it with his own balance and not bonus. Like for example just like you said


In this case 0.5 in total should be cut from 1 BTC deposit and not the bonus . Once he wagers it unlocks and he gets the bonus.

You should have something like that rather than to completely erase off users balance just because he decided to cancel it.

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It is really unethical to strike off the user's own balance just like actmyname said. I hope this will be resolved so that furthermore no more users can face this.

WOW and *edit* am I reading this right? You LOSE your balance when cancelling a bonus?  
 

110x isn't even that hard. It must be over 100x due the house edge. Everything below the 100x would allow users just to wager and loose the hotels edge and still end up with profit without any risk.

There should be no reason to cancel the entire balance. You're essentially - without the user's prior knowledge - forcing them to go all or nothing on the bonuses. And considering the fact that you have to have the entire bankroll bet 110x, it's a difficult feat.

If you want to punish users by losing part of the bonus balance, then do a simple split based on the bonus %.

In your scenario of 1 BTC and 0.5 BTC bonus, have every wager split 2:1 in terms of deposit and bonus, disregarding any profit upon cancellation.

Note that also, your reload bonus is claimed a maximum of twice a day.

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And really, the only reason you make each bet count for 50% of the wagering requirement is to make the actual wager number (110x) look smaller: 55x.