Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 70. (Read 1058949 times)

Hi, I don't want to open a can of worms, specially now that everything seems to be working just fine. However, I would like to open a discussion about the convenience (or not) to use a soft wallet like coinomi or hardware wallets like Ledger or Trezor in addition to our good old DVC wallet.

The reason behind this is because I think this could help to foster the use of DVC, luring more people to it and maybe the willingness of more  exchanges to support us.  Reading the coinomi support page (https://coinomi.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/29000009776-which-coins-do-you-support-how-can-i-add-more-) it seems they can add new coins:


In the case of Ledger (https://trello.com/b/5nQ1mdzt/ledger-roadmap), it seems they can also add new cryptos:


Unfortunately, I couldn't find much information about how to contact Trezor about this matter.

What do you think about it?

That sounds like a sensible approach. I'd be willing to involve myself at some point in the sense that I can follow the trail and use the tag. Once you have the details worked out, please post the procedure for getting connected up again, and I'll bookmark it for when I'm ready.

Congratz on getting an upvote from Roger Ver. Whatever you think of him, he's famous in our industry, so getting an upvote from him is cool. Kind of like getting to meet the President of the US would be a cool experience even if you voted for the other guy.

Thanks to all for the great feedback to my post concerning Steemit. The sensible solution then is to follow develCuy's suggestions (as well as a non-confrontational approach suggested by UTB) and move our @devcoin witness up in the fish tank of steem. Once with a better presence and following we might reconsider pushing some of the code changes to help the community grow into a more fairly distributed reward system. Expect more involvement on my part, develCuy.

Just have to mention a small bragging point; Roger Ver ( @rogerkver ) upvoted one of my steemit comments.  

- Nova

[Edit : Forgot that some may get upset with the mention of that name around here? My apologies in advance. ]

As well as "DevCorp" whose mandate is to try to help the value of DeVCoins, I recalled there was also an entity we just called "DVC" that had been intended to try to become an actual warchest / treasury for DeVCoin, in the sense that just like you can add up the value of a nation or Corp's holdings and divide by the number of shares or coins to determine the value of a share or coin, we would eventually be able to add up the value of the holdings of this entity we called "DVC" and divide by the number of DeVCoins in existence to determine the value of a DeVCoin.

As of the first of June 2018, my records show the purported value of this "DVC" entity to be 4533130490.95700725 DeVCoins, based on the valuation of DeVCoins implied by today's "Latest rates include-file" ( http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc )

Here is the current contents of that file, since it is updated periodically:


As you can see from the fact that DVCrate is shown as 1.00000000, in this version of the file everything is priced in terms of DeVCoins.

By working backwards from these "prices of other things in terms of DeVCoins" you can of course compute the value of DeVCoins in terms of these other things.

The value of this entity "DVC" that is trying to become in effect the treasury of the DeVCoin nation, or the holdings of the DeVCoin Corp, mean only somewhat over four point five billion devcoins can actually be "backed" (by this entity alone with no help from anyone else) at the current purported value/price of DeVCoin as purported by the "Latest rates include file".

Interestingly though, there is another Corp associated with DeVCoin: the Corp named DevCorp. Its mandate is to try to uphold and increase the value of DeVCoins.

Particularly interesting is that following this same monthend that produced the above figures, DevCorp's holdings are supposedly worth 614558188852.63372417 DeVCoins, not only shown in the Corp Values page at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/companies.html but also by the entry for sDVC (Shares of DeVCorp) in the Latest Rates Include File. (It shows the value of a share of DeVCorp as sDVCrate, 614558.18872138, and there are, as reported in the Corp Values page, one million shares.)

Thus it kind of looks like maybe the simplest way for DeVCorp to fullifill its mandate of aiding / increasing the value of DeVCoins could be to either donate stuff to the entity we have been calling "DVC" or to take its place as the supposed "treasury" or "warchest" or "total holdings of the nation or Corp who issues and therefore presumably/hopefully backs with its full faith and fortunes the currency known as DeVCoin"...

Hmmm. I have to look into this more and think about it more. Maybe the entity we have been calling "DVC", which probably was instigated by DeVCorp, simply needs to invest some of its holdings in better-earning or faster-appreciating things than it has been.

-MarkM-

P.S. I suspect the above means DeVCoins are extremely undervalued, thus that they might well go up soon. Thus everyone who owes debts denominated in DeVCoins probably should make a concerted effort to pay them off as fast as they can while DeVCoin is so cheap. This suggestion is of course aimed especially much toward those folks who are between them in debt to the General (aka Galactic) Financial Corp (GFC) to a total (as of the same monthend used above) of 2286734117044.66566998 DeVCoins.

@novacadian, @wiser, @Unthinkingbit, @Qtera and everyone supporting the STEEM-DVC integration, first of all thanks for that. I have great hopes for Devcoin since the very beginning of this integration project!

So..., I'm taking a breathe from personal stuff to start working on the next stage of STEEM-DVC. I agree with the strategy proposed by @novacadian, in the STEEM world we can only set the rules if we are one of the top 20 witnesses. That is a very ambitious target but certainly not impossible! We just need to start and keep moving!

This is how I plan to split our 12 shares:

- Infrastructure & Apps: 4 shares for hosting
- Capital: 5 shares for buying STEEM POWER
- Marketing: 3 shares for collaborators (one for each)

Note that STEEM POWER generates more STEEM POWER and SBD, and my policy is to buy more STEEM POWER with those generated earnings, since our goal is to speed up the growth of our @devcoin whale. Also, this is a Devcoin project so we will always pay our collaborators with Devcoin.

Marketing efforts are key here, because we have to be campaigning actively in order to gain support from STEEM community. Every vote for our @devcoin whale will get us closer to our target.

In other news, I still owe you guys the STEEM article to announce all this great news. Stay tuned because Sunday is my inspiration day!

Dear Listex,

I am the contact for Devcoin Exchange listings and administration.

I speak for our community when I say this.

If you want to advertise in our message thread, please be courteous enough to list Devcoin without requiring a fee for the listing.

Sincerely,

CTYA

Could it be possible Unthinkingbit to assign some regular shares for this purpose? I mean to fund a whale like this in steemit using DVCs?

I don't know anything about Steemit other than what I've heard on this thread, nevertheless I'll give my opinion anyways.

I agree that there is a big problem in Steemit, but people don't like ultimatums. I think you should look for a nice way to fix the problem first. Even if it turns out there was no nice way to fix things, the fact that you tried would give you more support for an eventual ultimatum.

You could try putting the Steemit tokens of devcoiners together to form an honest whale, the devcoiners would pick someone to be a trustee. You would still only have a small whale, but once you have something then other Steemit users would join. Make a Steemit page where you describe how your whale would vote according to an equal voting of the token sharers. With at least 5% of the total Steemit tokens, you could in effect give your token holders equal voting weight to the whales, without having to change the n^2 part of the code.

In any case, you can suggest whatever bounties you want, and you could ask develCuy to use part of his up to 12 shares to fund Steemit projects you recommend.

Interesting proposal. Would we be pushing for a hard fork of Steemit resulting in a totally new block chain, currency, and social media platform?

About a year ago, someone tried to fork Steemit--well, really, they took a snapshot of some sort and then reset accounts to beginning balances and went on from there. That fork is called Caliphae, and I haven't heard anything about it since. But that fork would be one to study to see if there are any mistakes or successes to learn from.

I've been on Steemit since 2016, and my activity level waxes and wanes depending on how much time I have (right now, very little). I'm OK with the reward structure, etc., in the sense that I can make it work for me. Mostly I have simply delegated out my SP through Minnowbooster.net so I don't even have to write to make money.

My big problem with Steemit, though, is that its block explorer has got to be the least user friendly from the point of view of keeping accurate records of transactions for tax purposes ever. I have to go to one of those dApps to get some of my transactions, and then manually look at the wallet and record for other transactions. I try to go through all my accounts like that once a month or so. It is a real pain in the butt. The first time when I had to go through an entire year of data that way was a literal nightmare. I couldn't get the books to add up right, and I finally just divided up the extra Steem that my wallets showed I had (but my transactions did not show I had) into equal monthly installments and was done with it. I think SP accumulates "interest" at a steady rate and it's handled as a constant balance adjustment rather than as a deposit, which means no way to record it. It's similar to XEM harvesting, except that there are apps that actually do keep track of harvesting instances so that information is out there. I don't know how to get it for Steem.

Anyway, the tax reporting issues are so big for me that after suffering through it in order to report taxes for 2017, I decided that I would gradually get out of Steemit in terms of having any real funds on the platform and instead move those funds to coins that among other things lend themselves to automatic tracking through APIs (which connect directly to my tracking program--I am not skilled to program them myself), or coins where if I have to manually process the transactions it's a straighforward process that yields accurate results. I might keep writing for fun on Steemit but my purpose wouldn't be to earn anymore because I wouldn't be accumulating SP once I power down everything.

I'm not in contact with any of the founders or developers so haven't felt like there was a good way to address this complaint, so I haven't bothered. I've just kind of resigned myself to "it's a big sea with plenty of other fish (coins) to get into." In fact, one of my favorite coins (DNotes) just went to proof of stake a few months ago, so I can earn passively that way without even having to keep up with my minnowbooster delegations.

I share all this to say that if you do fork Steemit to merge with Devcoin or anything like that, please design the block explorer to make it very easy to track and record transactions either through periodic file exports or through APIs that are kind of dummy proof. That's the only way I would even consider participating. I have good coins and don't need the complication of another, but will consider it if it's not going to be a compliance nightmare for me.

Great news on the exchange listing and a hearty congratulations to all involved in making it happen; particularly the dogged determination of Cyta.

It is my feeling that we should now focus on what we have always been here to do... open source software development and support of open source programmers.

In that regard there seems, to me, a great opportunity. Allow me to explain.

The last five months has found me very active on steemit.com. For those unfamiliar with it, steemit has done with the social media model what Devcoin has done with the Wikipedia model. It is a social media app that rewards content creators with the crypto steem, like Devcoin does to Devtome creators with DVC.

The site steemit.com is owned and operated by Steem Inc.; or as it is affectionately known as STINC. Steemit has been the primary delivery app of the steem blockchain since 2016, yet it is by no means a monopoly. The software is open source with a decentralized blockchain ledger. Other apps and delivery sites like busy.org are popping up all the time. There are tons of apps which could be done as software bounties. Great libraries are available in python as well as Perl at https://media.readthedocs.org/pdf/steem/latest/steem.pdf and https://metacpan.org/release/Steemit-WsClient respectively. develCuy has a wittness/miner node running under steemit.com@devcoin which is practicing a form of merged mining between DVC and steem. We could use the steem blockchain to develop apps which would have a real revenue streams; which was the plan with AdSense and DevTome.

The steem project is an exciting one, yet there are some serious areas of discontent among the user base. With only a million accounts; of which only 60,000 are thought to be active; this discontent is likely to only grow as the old timers are vastly outnumbered by new users.

Some of the main beefs of the user base are:

1. Reward Pool Distribution

If one has been on the platform a long time they have generally built up steem power. That is the amount of steem they hold in a kind of stock. It is steem which they call Powered Up. It would take 13 weeks to get such steem totally powered down and into your hands again. In the meantime it gives one an advantage on the platform. When someone likes/upvotes a post of yours the amount of rewards, from the reward pool, assigned to you from that vote is weighted on how much Steem Power that person has in their account. Those with a lot of Steem Power are known as Whales. Some whales are investors who have purchased the steem which they have powered up.

In the early days the whales would seek good content and reward it. This is what they call the Proof of Brain as opposed to Proof of Worth. As time has  gone on and more investor types have bought their whale status they are not seeking out good content but seeking the highest rate of return on their investment. Consequentally they are gaming the system wherever it will let them.

One area they can game is to form small cartels of accounts that vote for each other no matter what crap content is posted. You will see $300-$400 rewards for posts that are complete drivel. This has annoyed the lower ranking users to the point of rebellion.

This could be easily fixed by giving a much smoother grade to the weighting instead of the n^2 at present, yet even the good whales have a vested interest to not see that happen and they can have their way due to another great point of discontent...

2. Witness Voting.

Witnesses is another name for Miners on the steem blockchain. The user base can vote for their preferred witnesses. The top 20 witnesses with the the most votes get to vote upon excepting future software mods. They also produce the majority of blocks on the steem blockchain, with a 21st witness being chosen from the non top 20 group of witnesses each round of block creation. That sounds like a great thing, right? Except for the fact that Witness Voting is weighted with the same formula as post upvoting.  

So we have whale Witnesses voting for other witnesses and greedy whales voting for witnesses. The big guns have the place locked down. Those in charge of direction have too much stake to make unbiased judgments.

Possible Solution

My feeling is that the only way to force change on those with the power to do so is to offer an ultimatum. That is to first make changes to the code with regards to the vote weighting and then present it to the top 20 witnesses explaining that if they do not except it that there will be a real fork in the traditional sense of the word. That is a fork like BTC/BCH where the branches both retain the original blockchain.

Due to the fact the the users will flood to where the rewards are better for them, only the whales and their buddies would remain behind. It is bound to bring some sanity to their thoughts as they do have large vested interests for the blockchain to not fork.

Who better to support such code changes than Devcoin?

Such a showdown could be used in a political way to garner more votes for our @devcoin witness. My guess is that the masses would herald @devcoin if that was the voice on the steemit platform putting forth the modifications to the code. We may possibly find @devcoin in the top 20 once vote weighting is more smoothed out. Those top 20 witnesses are making 6 figure salaries a year. We are talking cash flow like never seen in the Devcoin Project previously.

Allow me to invite you to come to https://steemit.com or https://busy.org. Get registered and check the blockchain out.

There is a new project called Smart Media Tokens (SMT) rolling out with the next version of steemit. DVC would fit it like a glove.

https://smt.steem.io/

Feedback is welcome. Thank you for your time.

- Nova

I don't know what the Cryptopia listing fee is, but I would recommend DVC apply. It will probably take forever to get a reply back, but Cryptopia is trying to be in total legal compliance, which means most of the tokens on the market these days will fail their legal review. I'm not sure of the legal status of DVC. It's been used primarily to reward people who contribute open source work, but I don't think it's ever been used as any sort of fundraising token for some central entity. It may be that when most of the other ICO tokens are ruled out, DVC will get more interesting to trading platforms and speculators. It's certainly worth a shot.

I look forward to a substantial increase in the token trading. Moreover, the idea of devcoin is interesting and practical.

I have v7 bisq installed on a doze 7 64bit PC & can confirm that DVC is there. For anyone having trouble displaying it:

Click on settings.
In preferences, go to Display altcoins (bottom right)
Click on "add altcoin"
click on Devcoin (DVC)

Start trading!  

I downloaded the client, but I can't run the latest version in Kubuntu for some reason or another.  If someone can run the client in Windows and confirm it, it would be great, but they have already DVC listed in their FAQ, so it should be there in their more recent client (0.7.0)

I was looking around on Bisq and I can't find the DVC market. Can someone please post a direct link? I thought I'd take a look at the market before trying to register an account and all that good stuff.

Cryptopia just delisted a bunch of coins that fit the definition of "financial products" which they are not licensed to carry. So I can see that they would be eager to find some new qualified coins to list. It may take a while, but I think it would be worth pursuing.

just seen from cryptopia
may be the one best chance to get devcoin on there
Cryptopia Exchange
‏
 
@Cryptopia_NZ
 2h2 hours ago
More
Calling all coin development teams who are keen to list their coin on Cryptopia! We are halving our coin listing fee until midnight (UTC) June 4. Please see this Help Centre article for further information on how to list your coin with us: http://ow.ly/AMNZ30kd1dD

https://twitter.com/Cryptopia_NZ/status/1001021127425064960

I just updated my client. It looks like Devcoin is ready to go on Bisq!

Congratulations CTYA, indeed!

And I see that apparently the Bisq Network is supporting now DVC too!! I haven't checked it yet, but take a look in their FAQ here: https://bisq.network/faq/ in the section "Which altcoins are supported?"

I'm gonna download it and try. Yay!