Topic: Early Bitcoin Wallet - Help Needed - Advice Appreciated - page 3. (Read 1831 times)

There were sites around back in 2010 that allowed you to by bitcoins eg, New Liberty Standard, Bitcoin Market, MtGox
Some discussed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/which-method-do-you-use-to-buy-bitcoin-for-cash-1800

You would have needed a bitcoin address for them to transfer the bitcoins to.

Usually you would download the bitcoin client software and use that to generate an address that the coins could be transferred to.

Otherwise there were online address generators such as bitaddress that allowed you to make wallet addresses and print out paper wallets. They mention a PGP public key.

Here's the earliest version i can find in archive.org that works.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130420072538/https://www.bitaddress.org/bitaddress.org-v2.4-SHA1-1d5951f6a04dd5a287ac925da4e626870ee58d60.html

That way you could have a bitcoin address without ever having downloaded the bitcoin client.

They have a brain wallet generator, but that wasn't added until 2012 so unless the herald didn't report on the pizza buying incident until later maybe your dates are off? Memory can sometime be inaccurate. Earliest article I can find on the heralds website is from 2013, but of course that doesn't mean they didn't report about it earlier, just that it's no longer findable on their website. https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/bitcoin-fervour-goes-viral/news-story/ea5cfc758513db09169163ea94067cab

Otherwise there were online wallet services like blockchain.info (now blockchain.com), MyBitcoin https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MyBitcoin , Instawallet https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Instawallet etc

Do you have access to the email accounts you were using back then?
Searching them might find some clues as to what sites you might have used.

That's definitely plausible. Been on that track for the last couple of days & have alredy seen that same page. Just not so sure its going to be that simple. Been trying to figure out what algorithms were used in 2010. Ive always thought it was Base58. Not sure what that program uses in that archive. Orginially I thought the 8 words were "salt" or to "hash" the password which to me seems slightly different for same end results rather than password just being a 9th word tacked on the end.

Maybe you used the 9 words (your 8 words and the password) to make a brainwallet?  

https://web.archive.org/web/20120514114100/http://brainwallet.org/

Well it made the Heraldsun website which I was paying for at the time while using Supercoach for the AFL.

Haven't used computers since 2012ish. No need got a phone. Pretty certain there were torrents floating around re. Bitcoin plus the White Paper so not out of the question for anyone to take interest.

Had all the time in the world back then to read whatever I liked ie.certain handbooks & whatever else looked interesting plus had two computer joints within 30 meters of where I worked. If I need something just walk into to either one & say yo what up can you help me with basically whatever.

Got two computers now cause I can & thats what I want. Alienware 15 R3 has been annoying me due to its weight. Asus ROG Strix is on sale at JB so thought bout time to start rocking a new computer. Pretty fresh aswell I might add. Now one for offine & one for offline. If there were ever a scenario where this was ever needed its pretty safe to say I've got it sorted & that makes me a happy little Vegemite.

Could not give a fat rats in relation to the Armoury wallet but cheers for that. Might leave that another 14 years to bother opening cause thats got nothing to do much other than it was found. Also counted the 8 words using my fingers before typing them in so mate it happened exactly how I've described it. Also used some site that tested the strength of the password. All done by following a dummies guide. Knew at the time it was big joke & crazy to buy but didn't phase me one bit. Finally why mine when you can just buy for $200 & be done with it.

Pretty funny stuff when you think about it & you have been very helpful by the way. 😂

All that said do you know if there was a way to build keys using 8 words & a password... After that once keys are built are you able to tell me why they can't be used to regenerate the wallet...

Check this out IT guy. Think it proves you can generate keys with 8 words as passphrase &:password as salt. I had it back the front....

https://brainwallet.io/

Yeah I am with this guy, you have confused your self a bit with fairly basic stuff and terminology.  You also post anecdotes that aren't needed and prove nothing other than to I feel convince yourself.  You mention things that you have either heard someone else say from their experience or read from somewhere and have taken it as your own experience.  

No one cares what you remember or know about events, we were all there too and doesn't solve your problem.  I myself was mining BTC with GPUs, so thats 2010. BTC started in 2009 and I heard about it from an unlikely source, but I was working in IT at the time with some computer scientists and they told me about it.   The tech hasnt changed THAT much.  

It beggars belief someone with who lacks basic fundamentals and knowledge about computers in general and btc would even be looking at BTC back then as this site was the only one around and it was created by satoshi himself and he has posted here, but you claim you bought it after "hearing" about the btc pizza guy which was in May of 2010 and it didnt make the main stream media news, it was just news on this site at first when it happened as the exchange/convo and agreement happened on here. People were sending btc for fun all over the place on here and selling it which came a little later on. Lots of people selling BTC on here if you look, like some people were asking for 20 bucks for 1000 btc around the same time etc and no one bought it.  

MT Gox came online in March 2010, Silkroad was 2011 and Agora was 2013.   So your telling us, you bought btc in 2010 after the btc pizza incident, transferred it and then never touched it again ? but then you claim to have used silkroad and agora etc later on, so what did you use then ? Cant have been the original account since you cant access it and coins never moved since buying.  

Install armory already and try and import your screen shot, its all you can do. You didnt need a new computer to do that, its a 24mb download.   If you created this paper wallet on a website, its the same as using the qt client, its just quicker and you get access to both the keys for that account without needing to download anything else. Most people downloaded the client and ran the node, and still do which keeps the keys in their wallet.dat file.  Paper wallets are created basically the same way as every other account, there is nothing mysterious about it.  There were no seed or mnemonic words until 2013.  Seed words, mnemonics, secret words are all the same thing. It what was used to recreate the account from the blockchain. Basically the words are the human readable version of a sequence of random words that stores the data required to access or recover cryptocurrency on blockchains or crypto wallets.   I feel your are not going to be able to rebuild the wallet with random words that arent a part of any recognized word list, as they are very specific words and not random made up words on the spot and nor could you choose which ones you wanted, never ever worked this way.  

Anyway good luck.

Coins "live" and move only on the blockchain, never anywhere else. The purpose of any wallet software or hardware is to hold and manage public (watch-only) and/or private keys, with latter to sign transactions, so that you're able to move coins for which you've appropriate private keys. Additionally a wallet shows you the balance of all coins your private/public keys control. Very loosely summarized...

If you want to entertain yourself with learning some Bitcoin knowledge, feel free to hop over to https://learnmeabitcoin.com, great site to scratch the basics or deep dive to serious technical stuff and more!

The Blockchain.info was first announced on Aug 30, 2011:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blockchaininfo-bitcoin-block-explorer-currency-statistics-40264

However, Blockchain.info was initially founded as a block explorer and blockchain analytics website.
The Blockchain wallet was launched in Beta on Dec 1, 2011:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blockchaininfo-bitcoin-block-explorer-currency-statistics-40264.msg636996#msg636996

Quick search suggests Blockchain.info was founded in 2011. Not sure of the exact date or month but I do know Silkroad was first seen in February 2011. Both sites were formed after the orginal $200 AUD purchase  The reason I would have seen the linked site in 2011 is after hearing about Silkroad. As far as im aware there was no reason to purchase BTC in 2010 whatsoever other than just for finding the concept interesting. I never made another purchase till late 2013 - 2014. By this time it was ridiculousy easy. Open MtGox account. International transfer straight from bank account online. Bitcoins hit the wallet. No mucking around with keys no nothing. Everything else including the website you have linked comes later. Need to go back even earlier.

What I'm struggling to understand right now is after keys have been generated & money has been transferred how would that be registered on the blockchain in 2010 without the use of the Bitcoin Client.

Untll I get my head around the basics properly & can explain myself properly unfortunately my posts are going to be confusing. If anyone out there could make a simple summary of what's been discussed so far that would probably be helpful to readers. Ps. Got new Asus ROG Strix today...looks nice. 😁

If indeed it is an old blockchain.info wallet, you would need to be searching for files called wallet.aes.json 

Definitely not going to rule the above link out all together at this stage. I did straight away when mnemonic was mentioned expecting it to be something to do with word lists that dont contain all of the series of words I picked myself.

It's certainly old enough to consider being within 18 months of the orginal first purchase (estimated date of September 2010). That's site does mention 2012. If anything the rubics cube & even more so the "love bitcoins" logo are the familiar component plus the simple basic text fields.

Was then able to watch the video aswell. That's some seriously classic stuff right there. Would not be surprised if I have seen that before. Actually pretty amazing that it still exists. 

Thanks mates. 😊

First post I made was just spewing out everything I can recall from 2010 - 2014 era. Feel its necessary not to edit that post & just use it as a reference as they key information is there regardless if its a bit of a mess. Its jumbled simply because so much time has passed. I now understand the difference between private keys & PGP keys. I must confess it did take some time relearn everything again but I'm getting there slowly. I just needed to get down in text exactly what I could recall regardless of whether it sounded ridiculous cause where else could I possibly start.

I am by no means bitcoin technical. Just feel into it in 2010 after reading the infamous pizza guy story & purchased $200 worth of bitcoin. What I did with those coins & the private keys still remains a mystery. Latest theory some sort of brainwallet that was converted to a paperwallet that could be printed. I know I used 8 words & a password to create the wallet. I also know these crucial pieces of information...nothing is missing like similar scenarios I've read.

The folder for the PGP keys are just a series of text documents that I'd saved from people on darknet markets along with my own PGP key & for some reason an Armoury wallet VERY similar the one in the pic you sent. It reads identical but the format is slightly different. I assume it was a single transaction or even a refund when MtGox collapsed. Both people I've been speaking to on email are solid guys not looking to scam me in any way shape or form. They have been very sincere & actually very helpful.

Thank you for taking the time to respond by the way & I apologise for the confusion. Yesterday I had my old Alienware M14x laptop checked by the local computer dude in hope that it could be used for some Github related test run of one particular program in an offline environment once factory reset. Turns out there was a graphics card or motherboard issue so in the end he pulled out the harddrive for me & the rest of the computer got binned. Random drive is a backup of that particular laptop. A blue Seagate Plus Portable Drive again 1TB.

I've decided I'm going to buy a new Asus ROG Strix (for online) & factory reset the current Alienware 15 R3 (for offline). Its been a bit of a pain to get two computers side by side but I'm working on it. Happy to post pics of the PGP keys & Amoury wallet (minus key details) so everyone can see I'm not making any of this up. It's the real deal I assure you.

I'm not sure anyone can follow what you do with those files on one of your "random drives". OK, I can't and that's just me, ignore it.

Your details are confusing. Public keys are this: https://learnmeabitcoin.com/beginners/guide/public-keys/
I've no good explanation why someone not-so-Bitcoin-technical would've a folder with a "series of public keys". Is this folder in proximity of some wallet related folders? Do you mind telling its name, unless it's totally private and self-named? Not sure if this would shed some more light into this mystery.

Does this Armory wallet screenshot look similar to this one?


Source of picture: https://recovermycryptowallet.com/recover-bitcoin-from-armory-wallet/

I can't speak for the integrity of users whom you send possibly pictures of wallet recovery details. You should be careful whom you can trust with such details.

I also don't get why you speak of PGP keys in the context of wallets. You mentioned PGP keys already earlier which confused at least me a bit, but I didn't see it as important.

Every now and then new things pop up. Next is "keygen software". I would associate this with the warez scene, keygens being usually small pieces of software to generate serial keys for some software which needs specific serial keys to activate/license it.

This is no rant, I'm just confused by your story. Consider to omit unnecessary personal details of your family and how you spend your time. I don't see how this relates to your topic here. You may think it's nice for the context, but I find it rather off-topic and distracting. I don't know how others think of it.

Personally I find a lot of recovery related topics quite interesting because many have good challenges and things to learn from. Enough for now...

8 words and a password sounds like an old blockchain.info wallet recovery mnemonic

Does this look familiar?  https://web.archive.org/web/20120120172358/https://blockchain.info/wallet

Before I start banging on I've sent you pics on email.

Went looking for the external harddrive today & the manilla folder that should have my name on it along with a piece of paper re. BTC/wallet/keys. Neither could be found in the "liveable" section of the house/garage. Had roughly 2 hours spare to get as much done as possible after a kids party that finished at 1.30pm. Then had to get my misses to the shops before they shut by 4.30pm with drive time taking up a solid hour between.

Came across one plastic container filled with paperwork from that era that look forever to go through page by page. Fairly certain its a "home" base container not the one from "work". Managed to find a series of the larger SD cards, one older laptop that's not early enough, a heap of phones one iPhone particular that may have an image of the piece of paper & a small USB that just doesn't look right.

All that said there is still a "storage" section that hasn't been checked but to get this done its going to be an absolute nightmare. No chance I could do it by myself in a day. Just looked at it & why me. Feel it's necessary to mention today's events.

Anywoo last night I boot up one of the random drives I already had & transfered the majority of the files unrelated to media (music/video). One of the folders contain a series of public keys but funnily enough an Armory wallet screenshot I don't even remember from 2014. Screenshot has a box with eighteen random 4 letter combinations & a QR to regerated the wallet. Sent pics to CryptoJ0hn on email & will also send them to you.

Done some more thinking & what's not making any sense to me now is why would PGP keys have been used in 2010 if there's no reason to encrypted a message when simply buying & transferring coins to a "wallet" with private/public keys that are in a different format. I'm pretty sure after find other people's public keys along with the Armoury wallet that I didn't learn/explore PGP encryption until 2011 possibly later & had no reason to use it till 2014.

So now my theory is there was basic keygen software. Software created two keys with 8 words & a password.

Keys could then be stored in a "vault" that were encrypted with same password.

A series of words were given incase you forgot your password to access the encrypted keys but then you would have to change your password to have the ability to decrypt the keys or those words themselves may have been enough to do the decryption.

My guess is any piece of paper for that era may have been printed & contain a QR plus the encrypted keys printed on it aswell. I suspected that this piece of paper/wallet may have just been turned over then all I did was write the master key on the back. How a master key comes into play along with a public/private key has got my miffed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/n2hup6/help_with_possible_nonbip39_8word_key_phrase/?rdt=37418

That dude seems to be the only scenario I can find that's similar accept he's missing the password. He's also missing the program that stores the encrypted keys same as I am.

Now I'm wondering if a "brainwallet" could be generated super easy then printed on a piece of paper making it a paper wallet without the use of anything other than basic keygen software. I remember the whole move the mouse non sense for entropy for keys & I just don't think I used it. Instead I picked another option where 8 words & password did the samething using an algorithm.

The whole wallet.dat concept for me is over. Has nothing to do with my story whatsoever. The simple fact that a series of words were given to me for password recovery in 2010 rules out the Bitcoin Client & there was no other option.

Im still unsure the harddrives are secured into forensic images? and not just a logical copy?
If the harddrives has been imaged byte for byte, you would be able to search in the unallocated area too.
 
Since we're talking about a wallet.dat from 2010, what i've read is that the header should not be encrypted, so it should be possible to search for a specific header, with regular expression for all the volume, including the unallocated area.

Take a look at this topic for inspiration:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/walletdat-hex-code-in-2009-2857580 

Well $200 AUD even at 0.9c gets you 2222.22 BTC. Then times that 100K AUD. So I guess that's worst case for 2010 without taking into consideration any exchange rates that based on the 0.003c day pizza guy bought his pizzas, 0.03c two weeks after he bought them & 0.09c at the end of the year.

Mnemonics is not a factor. Words were given to recover password. Not the "wallet".

Gone off wallets. Can't be Multibit, can't be Electrum, can't be Amroury. Bitcoin Client maybe but as far as I know the blockchain had to be downloaded to open a wallet (or so I've read) which i dont think ever took place on the work desktop. No mnemonic or series of words for password recovery were ever given on that platform either.

This leads be to believe there way have been another way to store the coins. For some reason a remember some sort of "vault" where either the private keys were locked in a password protected vault by them selves or many even with a coin balance. 8 words I selected to encrypted the vault.

If this was the case this is where paper way come into play aswell..I'm playing a massive game of catch up. Spent two weeks looking in to "wallet" recovery. Hard to find info on the early days.

The search on old 1TB Seagate drive copy came back negative for wallet.dat. Was hoping there may be other searches possible for private keys or vault program. Going through every file one by one with unhide files selected for the drive.

Tomorrow I'm off on a treasure hunt...so just hope luck is on my side.

Is it a big balance? Is it small? Let's find out what you're worried about. Then, if it's worth it, we'll try to solve it. Maybe it's not... The situation is slightly different if the address is from 2010. Mnemonic words started to be used frequently in 2013. The earlier ones are different ...

Had a massive reply to the last two post. Took forever to write. Went to send it but session had timed out & I lost it completely.

Want to run this scenario past you guys even though it may sound ridiculous. Done the whole wallet concept to death & now something else is bugging me. Using orginal post as reference in my mind this seems like a logical explanation. Done no research on the topic yet & can explain later but just go with me...

1. Lets just say the keys are created in the simplest way possible & leave it at that.
2. Rather than a wallet a "vault" is used to store the keys.
3. Keys are encrypted inside the "vault" using 8 words i picked & say Base56.
4. Password is used to access the "vault".
4. A series of words are given to access "vault" if password is forgotten.
5. Paper then comes into play somehow.

This ticks all the boxes but in a different way. Paper wallets come up quite a bit across the board early possible storage option...

"Bitcoin paper wallets were introduced in the early 2010s as the go-to way to store the crypto private keys safely."

I've come across this post a couple of times re. wallet 2010. Whenever i read "seed" words I normally tap out but this time it got me thinking. The above would be my explanation as to why (12) words were given in both cases.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/seed-from-2010-bitcoin-5457689

My approach would be to get both harddrives secured forensicly correct into digital images, when done these are the ones you're working on.
Examining the secured images can either be done with forensic software and/or mounting tools, and then use whatever software or script you prefer.

Doing it this way has no impact on the original harddrives, as they are only touched with a writeblocker while imaging them.
The data transfer between the examining PC and a digital image vs. an old mechanic drive will also be a signigicant advantage.

I've been running pywallet on some old hard drives. It takes ages, especially if it is a large capacity drive.

You're probably better off trying to run it yourself at home on a machine that's not connected to the net.