Topic: Economic Devastation - page 42. (Read 504773 times)

They wont raise the rates. Its just another communication thing.

Yellen moves Fed to brink of December rate hike

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen on Wednesday made it pretty clear she’ll support the central bank’s first interest-rate increase in nine years when policy makers meet in two weeks.

In a speech to the Economic Club of Washington, Yellen said she expects the economy to continue to grow over the forecast horizon, adding more jobs and bringing inflation back up toward the central bank’s 2% annual target.

“I currently judge that U.S. economic growth is likely to be sufficient over the next year or two to result in further improvement in the labor market,” Yellen said.


What could go wrong? 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/yellen-moves-fed-to-brink-of-december-rate-hike-2015-12-02

It is a sad irony that Brazil, the first country to call out the Currency War in 2010, is all but completely stuffed partly due to said Currency War.

Once the growth story of Latin America, now every metric is in long term decline, interest rates have been jacked up to fight devaluation, unemployment climbing.

http://wolfstreet.com/2015/12/01/brazil-just-keeps-getting-worse-and-worse/

"Markets certainly are interested in a level playing field where there are no borders, capital controls"

The Eurozone, as envisaged a few months before the events in Paris, _requires_ free movement
of people to function. Unemployed and underemployed Portugese, Irish, Italians, Greeks and
Spaniards, are supposed to relocate to areas where labour resources are deficient. Similarly,
goods and capital are _required_ to freely flow within the Eurozone.

Absent free flows of people, goods and capital, the economic advantages of the Eurozone are lost.
It will be impossible to move onto the next level, a political union. Certainly there is no chance of
France giving control of its budget to foreigners if it is now locking down its borders. And if
sovereign states are saying no to central control, it is only a matter of time and opportunity
for sovereign currencies to be re-introduced. Unfortunately, that brings with it a risk of war.

France's unilateral imposition of totalitarian controls - I will not call them laws - means the
end, certainly of the Euro, unless other states also move to enact identical controls.

Oh, and that 1% rounding error masquerading as economic growth - smile as you wave goodbye!

For me that was an empty threat (but it worked). But if they carried on by destroying the greek banking system I don't think ECB would live much longer.



Markets certainly are interested in a level playing field where there are no borders, capital controls, and unified legal framework. But markets don't always get what they want, for every action there is a reaction. But markets are not TPTB, they are their control tool among many.  The Nazi parties across europe on the rise are another control tool, as is religion, threat of terrorism, austerity, unemployement etc. They will use the tool that offers the most control in every situation and right now with that is Nationalism.

Not only is the ECB fully capable of destroying the banking system of a member it has utilized this power very recently on your own country when it threatened the destruction of the Greek banking system unless Greece capitulated politically.


Conflicts between the relatively rich and the poor certainly look like they will get worse in the near future as enraged and impoverished masses turn on both the productive elite and especially their governments demanding further assistance. Governments response (more debt) will prove ineffective and the nation state will be held up as incompetent and incapable of managing basic governance. I suspect supranational organizations will be widely promoted as the superior and only solution.

The long term goal of TPTB is not to divide but to unify people under a system they control. Strong nation states and nationalism are an big obstacle to realizing this goal. As a thought experiment I suggest reading the news with the inkling that that their may be powerful actors seeking to undermine the internal cohesiveness of all nation states.

No one can truly know exactly what will happen in the future but the above scenario is how I think the coming sovereign debt crisis will play out.

It will not happen even in at national level (as was the original claim i think), at least not forced to do so as long as they have CB backing. In Yourope it could happen I guess if ECB decides to destroy the banking system of e member, but I don't think that likely, as it will certainly be the last act of ECB.

I don't think that nationalism will be dead, instead it will be on the rise, because lets face it, we are in a class war, and the last thing TPB want is to unify the people, so they are going to divide and conquer by playing the nationalist card.



Just Googled it seems RBS will be required to settle, but that was a fraud not malpractice as in pumping a debt bubble in the Euro periphery that was in retrospect inevitable due to the dynamic of the common currency

Bitcoin can only replace the payments system, and frankly the payments system should become public infrastructure, segregated and insulated from the risk of investment,
Banks very comfortable have placed themselves as a single point of failure in the economy, hopefully that will change and they will just have one job. Evaluate the risk of an Investment

Banks might recall loans but I believe the main Federal interest rate will remain (too) low because they do not want to recall on the biggest debtor of all which is Washington and that bias is what we can expect to cause loose money or has already even

Last Chance to anyone who has undeclared property in or outside Greece: If they voluntarily reveal them, then they will be able to salvage them.

Taxpayers will have one last chance to register undeclared incomes from mid December, according to Deputy Finance Minister, Tryphon Alexiadis. So whoever has undeclared property in or outside Greece and disclose voluntarily, they will be able to salvage. Otherwise, they risk faced by a confiscation of assets which were acquired with income not taxed.

Story Link.

Regarding malpractice by banks to SMEs, I'd suggest searching "RBS" + "Tomlinson"

Allegedly, 1000's of SMEs were asset stripped by the bank's restructuring office.

I would caution that the bank would argue that the companies were not worth
saving. However, in a financial crisis, the decision to save or to sacrifice can
often be somewhat based on politics. This is unlikely to be confined to just one
bank, it is just a matter of degree and distress.

As a separate issue there is a report on Finland's crises 174043.pdf that suggests
that a failure to moderate the deregulation of Finland's banks and savings institutions
followed by hot money inflows, made worse by the Soviet collapse, caused a sharp
contraction in GDP and jobs.

I'd guess that bitcoin would be unable to mitigate either of these problems.

No one ever said banks are going to call back loans en mass globally that would be counterproductive. Selectively cutting off access to the financial markets to rogue nations that threaten the status quo, however, is a powerful tool of control and there is little reason to think it will not be used.  

As you noted above government response to this is will not be to let the system collapse but instead to "charge the battery" via more debt and spending. As earnings are eroded and the economy stagnates governments will simply move on a worldwide basis to supplement incomes and stimulate growth via spending, redistribution, and welfare programs. A small part of this redistribution will occur in the form of higher taxes. However, the lions share will come from increased government debt.

As governments become insolvent they will find markets increasingly unwilling to service debt in their home currencies and will be forced to transition their debt to a supranational one (probably SDR's) subject to the jurisdiction of a foreign court. This will be the only way to continue supportive handouts to dependent populations. Think Greece but on a global scale. Going forward this scenario would result not in immediate catastrophic collapse but rather a slow progressive grind with individual countries going into crisis at different times while being forced to progressively surrender sovereignty.

I believe we are witnessing the gradual but inevitable death of nationalism and the modern nation state. A developing unity through debt if you will.

Ok we have gone to deep in the rabbid hole,
Banks will not call back loans en mass as a means of a "neutron bomb" trying to control us. Banks calling back loans as they learned in the 20's is the fastest way to close down shop, it signals that bank has essentially lost control and is on the brink of bankrupcy.

So it's not a choice that they will make hence my "banks never never ever call back loans"
The banks creates loans as a battery creates potential to drive a circuit, when it stops to do that it means you need to change the battery.

A wolf has teeth and has reportedly attacked people in the past, but I respect your opinion since you know the future.

I don't know the future, so I stay away from the wolf. My relatives were eaten, so perhaps that makes me a bit wary.

Looking at http://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/200912/20091216ATT66587/20091216ATT66587EN.pdf I see Greece was just a replay of that situation
only diff greece can not use currency depreciation, therefore the crisis burns on.

However I do not see banks calling back loans, all I see is Gov stepping in to clear the mess, Unless you can present us with specifics. I stand on my opinion that banks never never call back loans.

There was a documentary I happened to (partially) watch last night about people committing suicide after a long stressful period in their life; most of them left behind their beloved people (wives, children) because they were unable to fulfill their obligations against them. The main reason is that nobody (or, to be precise, very few) saw this coming.

Unfortunately human brain (especially the male one) has this obligatory feeling embedded that "he is the one that must provide for the rest". Every family has the ability to overcome a year or two of austerity and/or no employment; but SEVEN? Most of our educated brains have fled the country seeking for a better future and a decent (ie: viable) salary.

Germany, NL, France, Australia, USA, Sweden got the best of our doctors, engineers, scientists because they were unable to provide their families with the money for a decent life here in Greece. Those of us who were left behind were people that never got a loan, or they were forced to stay because of family reasons (I speak for myself).

So, all in all, desperation -in any form- is the primary factor for the "final exit". The people who orchestrated this knew what was at stake and didn't care a bit. They're no better than common criminals.

Country was Finland and year 1992-1993

As I happen to be greek I can tell you no loans have been called back. Instead early full or partial debt repayment is not accepted.
I happened to have a loan of 3K euros, and when capital controls were implaced, decided to close all positions/ fearing a haircut.
So for 3 months I own no debt and yet the bank recently sent me a bill demanding 3 months interest in a loan I have zeroed.

None you would care about. Nothing to see here, go away.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/greek-crisis-matter-life-death/
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/06/25/study-austerity-in-greece-led-to-tragic-increase-of-35-in-suicides-in-just-two-years/
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=el&tl=en&u=http://news247.gr/eidiseis/koinonia/h-oikonomikh-krish-efere-kai-aytoktonies-sthn-ellada.3766975.html&usg=ALkJrhgzHQKSalTH8-37HromcsXpXj1o-Q