Topic: Economic Devastation - page 52. (Read 504776 times)

Again I can't see why everyone is missing my point. Some millions of Americans have guns. They are sovereign. Europeans do not. Period. (except for a few hunting licenses, but Americans have AR-15s and other weapons capable of fighting the government or any invading army)

I wish it wasn't the case and that I could count on Europe to be a bastion of individual sovereignty warriors.

I can't find a single European who doesn't believe there should be at least some social contract with honest governance. The idea of total individual sovereignty is alien to every single European I have ever encountered.

America is basically split into the idiotssimpletons that don't really believe in socialism for idealistic reasons but just want to suck the tit of debt-consumerism and welfare, and the Constitutionalists who are fiercely individually sovereignty minded. There are other subsets, but basically it boils down to that major split.

Whereas, Europeans are ideologically invested in the concept of a social fairness and contract. Fairness is Marxism and it is very ingrained in European psychology. Whereas, Americans are bribed but they don't really for the most part believe in Marxism ideologically (well some have been indoctrinated and repeat the words but I think they are too stupidpreoccupied/uninterested to even understand what they are saying in any ideological sense, in reality they just love their Walmart and food stamps and rent assistance).

And this unity of ideology is why I believe (and Armstrong's model seems to predict) that Europe will crash and burn in unison and America will crash but splinter into regions of failure and rejuvenated success. The liberty-minded with guns with cast off the dead weight. Europe will carry its dead weight all the way to the grave.

To be totally transparent, Armstrong has mentioned independence movements in Europe. And he has stated an opinion that he think the EU will end (in its current form or maybe he just said Greece will exit by 2022 or so), but he is starting to realize lately that EU will be converted to a federalism with taxing authority at Brussels in order to fix the original design problem of the Euro where the sovereign debts weren't consolidated when the currency was.

I used to believe that, Europe is left and USA is right leaning but both are on the left and the whole spectrum has been rebased so very few countries are conservative in their fiscal or general policy.   Many countries now support 50% GDP spent within government with the inevitable tax on the economy.

Germany is a large exporter to the world, for whatever its faults it has that beneficial external component to its activities for guidance in its economy.  USA has fallen behind though it was once true in a similar fashion its economy now needs reform.   France has problems with unions and restrictive business practise.  Im not sure on every EU country but are many are not balanced but I think its a general problem such that China no longer stands out as an especially controlling country for business which is kinda amazing

There is nothing that you stated as a fact which is antithetical to my world view. You are building a strawman in order to try assail my opinion that Europe is more fucked because the people are more socialism retarded. I think the facts speak clearly on this issue. I have searched for a European who could be a counter example, and you are the closest I've found, yet even you have demonstrated that love (idolization) of social contract and of hierarchies.

Since you may prefer the word of the Bible (given your acknowledged devout Christianity), let me speak to you in that tongue. Did you not hear the world of your Lord in 1 Samuel 8? He said there is only 1 king and you don't need to be ruled over if you follow that 1 king. Romans in the Bible is what happens to those who refuse 1 king. So when you tried to install feudalism into crypto forums and Monero governance, then you got precisely the evils of Romans as your Lord promised in 1 Samuel 8. Even a State ruling over you is anathema to this command for the Lord. The liberty-minded Americans have their guns so ultimately they are not ruled by the State.

I did not make a statement that wasn't fact. I challenge you to quote me and point out which statement wasn't factual. All that you quoted from me above is fact except for my predictions of Europe being fucked which must be proven in the near future (but I can place a large bias on my statement being fact based on the chart from Armstrong which shows Europe is far ahead in decades of USA's future decline, Europe's massive socialism problem, USA+Mexico's drastic advantage in exporting as exemplified by that chart I displayed recently, etc).

Moving the goals to a constructed strawman about State sovereignty has no bearing whatsoever on the points I made. My point is that the Europeans themselves embrace the social contract and some millions of Americans are willing to die with their guns in their cold dead hands to protect their individualism. Americans have a long history of ignoring the government. That the people don't have the economic incentive to overturn the State sovereignty issue up to now, is not a factual reflection of the attitude of the people about sovereignty. You made a category error. The people don't have any incentive to waste their resources up to now fighting for State sovereignty, when in fact the liberty-minded Americans (certainly not all Americans) are much more interested in individual sovereignty than State sovereignty. Extremists in Europe would instead be the neo-nazis (who will come back into vogue) who want to rise to State power (Hitler redux) to enforce their idealistic conservatism based in aggression and inflicting control over others (contrasted against American Patriots who want to fight directly in defense against the State and as individuals or members of a ragtag militia in a non-aggression principle and not wanting to inflict any ideals on society-at-large). You as a reader of the Bible should be aware of this bolded distinction because Jesus taught the distinction in a famous statement:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22

17 So tell us what you think: Does the Law allow people to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

18 Knowing their evil motives, Jesus replied, “Why do you test me, you hypocrites? 19  Show me the coin used to pay the tax.” And they brought him a denarion. 20 “Whose image and inscription is this?” he asked.

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said, “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.”


What was the name of the crypto forum you were involved with starting, that is I assume now defunct or at least never gained any significant adoption. I remember I was banned there and had to slog through all this nonsense about reputations and rankings of which members were the most prestigious sort of like a redux of feudal Europe, etc.. You tried to reinstate me and I said I wasn't interested in that forum any more because of the top-down philosophy (can't scale).

Then there were the attempts to top-down manage Monero forming some sort of organization with reputations and ranks (but I admit I am pretty much ignorant of that because I wasn't even interested in knowing).

And finally the attempts to top-down manage Bitcoin investors telling them to buy and HODL all the way down from $1000 to $300. Instead of encouraging people make their own individual decisions (which is always more fitness because no one person is omniscient and more diverse opinions makes a more resilient market). I hoped you learned from those experiences and not defend them.

CryptoKingdom is afaik a project which you have created and run. That is the epitome of individualism and so finally you are catching on that success and scaling come from individual creativity and not from committees with their groupthink gridlock. And a few times I have commended you on that effort and even mention it as an example of an attempt to bring greater use of Monero. I have doubted whether a game would scale large enough to compete with Bitcoin as a use case, but it is a start. And if many people were creating various use cases, then again the individual creativity model is what scales and that could have a big impact. So we will have to see if Monero has built the platform that will incentivize so many individuals to do that spontaneously on their own initiative.

Yes you have shown me much goodwill and appreciation and I have also to you. But there is an occasional friction between us on issues like this, because I like to view things factually and I guess it bothers you when the facts disagree with your worldview.

That I haven't accomplished a lot in crypto yet is as you know a reflection of being terribly ill. But in fact, I have invented the most novel crypto technology since Satoshi, and this will hopefully be fully published and proven to be fact, if the community is willing to pay me what I think that very significant work is worth. I will soon be setting up the donation page so we can determine if the donation model of funding really works or not.

But the more salient point which I hope you will recognize so that you can be very successful ongoing is that the greatest achievements of yourself and myself have come from individual creativity. You got to BTC10,000 by making individual decisions to divest silver and invest in BTC < $10. And I earned $90,000 a month (inflation adjusted) in 2001, based on an individual creativity of creating the CoolPage software and publishing it all by myself.

I really don't understand why you are fighting me. You even admitted that Europe is more socialist. I am very much willing to meet a European who doesn't believe in the social contract. Do you know any? I know you believe in the social contract and honest governance (and my philosophy is that honest governance is impossible and the social contract is the corrupter of governance).

I think the Japanese people and the Japanese government deserve two separate comparisons because the people save alot which has allowed their government to take advantage and distribute alot of new money against that security.   Also they have the oldest working population profile in the world with a very low birthrate, Germany has immigration and Japan does not, this difference changes alot with internal growth.   Also Germany is the diametric opposite on fiscal responsibility due to its past of a failed government and currency in the 1920's

You are doing your own credibility harm by statements that are backed by neither fact, logic nor experience. For instance, European countries still enjoy more independence than U.S. states have had since 1865. This does not fit to your worldview solely because you lack the prerequisite knowledge in the subjects needed to understand it.


The fact is that my crypto projects are at least going somewhere despite your lack of recognition.

Yours are not, despite all my goodwill and appreciation and offers to help.

Why quit searching for the truth. Although your statement is true about some individuals perhaps, it is largely fiction (about dedication to collectivism being on equal footing to individualism and unprogrammed Americans) and also it misses the point of my post which was about the collective fate. That is not to argue that most Americans are unprogrammed (and perhaps roughly at least 50% of them subscribing to collectivism), but we do have some true individualists amongst us.

I meant collectively. Europeans are collectivists and thus are more enslaved. We don't have slides shaped like penises for our 5 years to slide down at the parks. We don't have skirt days for boys. We don't even have fully implemented socialized medicine (ObamaCare) yet and many people fighting against it. We have our guns. Europe is fucked. Get over it. That such "unprogrammed" Europeans aren't willing to sacrifice their life over not having the Constitutional right to bear arms, exemplifies a fundamental distinction.

And even Europeans in this forum who are level-headed also subscribed to some socialism. Even you were defending China's future and their embrace of socialism to me in private Skype conversations in 2012. Even you who thought the best way to organize crypto projects and forums was collectively with handing power/control to top-down reputation.

Some of us Americans believe in true individualism and grass-roots creation, i.e. anarchy or no *archy. It is a strange ideology for Europeans, because culturally they have always been under Kings, princes, barons, etc., i.e. some form of *archy. They just look at the organization of action as differently than we Americans do.

From his observations in meeting with similarly ranked NATO military officers, my former Air Force Lt. Colonel best friend once basically said to me something like Europeans do consultations and Americans roll up their sleeves and "Just Do It" (Nike slogan). Americans are thus perceived to be much more crude, haphazard (unorganized), unsophisticated and uncultured. We don't really worry about the implications of not consulting and not organizing. We just get something done. Sort of the low-hanging fruit approach. If you have enough independent actors attempting solutions, then eventually one of them is the solution. Whereas, consultation is either gridlock or the lowest common denominator result.

For example, you can see this occur now in the USA, where the people suddenly don't care who they elect as long as they elect someone who is not the political class. They just get something done and don't really care about the implications of anything except the low hanging fruit of "get 'er done, elect anyone but the politically correct". It is a vote for what is not wanted (logical nor or joint denial), not a vote for the common denominator of what is wanted (logical conjunction).


Meanwhile in Europe we have more political consultations. Ya' know you have to consider everything and do what is best for all and all for one.

This explains why Martin Armstrong's models predict the USA breaking up in regions. For Europe I expect them to collectively go down the tubes together, one for all and all for one.

thumbs up

You want unprogrammed, check out sub-Saharan Africa.  Other cultural problems though.

Jack Lew popped this one today: U.S. debt limit 11/3. Wtfbbq!

Ah quit that please. You haven't been to Europe - if you had, you would know that there is a population of clueless people here as well as in America. Europeans generally believe Americans to be much more clueless than they themselves are (and certainly the contrary).

In my observation, Europeans are less permeated with the consumerism and more by the socialism, vs. the Americans. Both are not good of course.

There is a population of very brilliant unprogrammed (or deprogrammed) minds in America, as well as in Europe.

We may have a Nobel 2025 candidate here:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1005.4913

very well said

the other thing that is said, is when someone is enslaved but can't see the bars. they think they're free!
most of the sheep. maybe they are lucky. ignorance is bliss!  allegedly 

Don't mind me. Just tagging this legendary and important topic so I can read regular updates on it.

It still shocks me how many people "prefer" fiat because they feel better with bankers controlling their destiny.

One of the saddest things about humanity is most of them don't want freedom - they want safety and comfort.  Freedom is hard because you have to think for yourself and do ideological battle with others.  Being a slave isn't as lucrative, but it's much less stressful if enslaved to a competent master.  All your needs are taken care of and you have no question as to your purpose.

The system is the largest fraud ever, in terms of notional amount vs. world GDP.

The fraudsters (TPTB, CBs, their fronts) can always add more zeroes to their debt papers which demands the people to pay more.

The debt slavery is not a new invention as such, eg. Indian poor were generally in debt slavery to higher castes, sometimes still are. With enough force, you can kill or lock in a person. But you need cunning to lead him to believe that he owes you. This (that we are indebted and owe to the banksters who enter more zeroes to their systems) is what has been bombarded in the western media since 1980s, until I stopped following. I have heard that they still perpetuate that lie.

Oh yes they do. Many, actually most, people believe we owe something. Why? Who has been explained the terms of the deal? Who has got the money that they now supposedly owe?

There is no money in central banking. When a new loan is made, there is no "consideration" (= the giver does not forgo anything he owns when the other takes on the obligation to pay "back").

The banksters don't make anything in this world. Even the most bloated social services, militaries or whatever is associated with govt debt spending, have been made by the people instead of the banksters.

Crypto Kingdom is such a clear example of a world where debt exists, but is relegated to its proper role.

When you stop believing you or anyone else owes the banksters, the liberation is near. (Note this does not affect actual debts where you were the decision making party to take the debt, you received the money, and the creditor relinquished the money - none of this happen in central bank "debt" to governments.)

I made a debt analysis of Japan's total debt, come and check it out in my thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/delete-1147264

You will be amazed how fatal the monetary situation is

TPTB

That's an interesting notion that Japanese metallurgy is far superior to Korea's, I had not heard that.  It is worth me looking into.  I do not know how to (cheaply) find THAT out.  There is a service we used out of Cleveland to check bearings for noise, dimensional accuracy, etc.  Also nearby was a laboratory that did various kinds of metallurgical testing, which we only did on TWO pieces because that testing was EXPENSIVE ($1200 some 16 years ago).

Korean technology in automotive batteries (for example) is quite advanced, probably ahead of the USA, but less advanced than Japan's.

Based on very limited personal experience, I would concur that Japanese perfectionism is greater than Korean.  We NEVER get a short-count from our Japanese supplier.  The packaging is always perfect from Japan.  Korea will on occasion mess up an order (eg, bulk packing in a box or two when the pieces should have been individually boxed for retail sale).  Korean senior pilots tell the junior ones to STFU, even if the senior guy is wrong (that is changing).

How are you doing health-wise these days? Everything OK buddy? Getting by? Living healthy?

But that is not "paying" the debt, thats just growing the ponzi scheme bigger by including other countries in it.

Some 3rd world countries are not yet members of this ponzi, so by including them, the countries that are already in can ease their tensions, however it won't matter in the long term.

In the long term the entire financial system will collapse, because the debts are simply unpayable, no matter what economic strategies you pull.

Now they might delay it 5-10 more years but delaying doesnt mean repairing it.

Neither Japan nor China have a irreparable problem, because they can leverage the other countries in the Asian Union such as the Philippines which have excellent demographics and low debt.

OROBTC, I've been told that Japan's metallurgy has been far superior to that of Korea. I don't know if that is still the case, but I suspect so. The Japanese are like the Germans of Asia, they are perfectionists with extreme attention to details.