Topic: Economic Devastation - page 62. (Read 504811 times)

No you misunderstand me again, I agree with you on that. I`m Austrian Economist, not Keynesian.

What I ment by that is that this is only temporary, and when the crash happens it will be reversed: stocks crash & food prices go up, so either it's postponed indefinitely (which is impossible)

Or you make a system without debt based ponzi schemes, that will achieve this, in a more sustainable and risk free way.


This is what I was telling you, that wealth is not necessarly opportunity based (we need to help the poor with welfare because they have less oportunity) but rather intelligence based.

So basically 3 futures can exist:

1) 1-2% of the population with IQ over 140, and the wealthiest, will provide the goods & services in the more and more complex economy, the manual labour will be achieved by robots, and the rest of the people 98%, will be on permanent welfare like some freeloaders, in a massive socialist economy

2) The elite will do eugenics, and will wipe out the low IQ people with war,plague or else, and reduce the world population to a very very small level, and only keep the high IQ people alive.

3) The economy will be reset, everybody loses all their money, and we start over, but soon enough the high IQ people will again emerge wealthy even with equal opportunities, and the same shit starts again.


I`d prefer 3) but i think 1) is the most likely outcome unfortunately. I also think that if 1) will become true then it's only a matter of time until the elite will become fed up with so many freeloaders so 1) will become 2) in a matter of years.

RealBitcoin you are not entirely incorrect in the sense that a debt based fractional reserve financial system enriches the capitalists who hoard monetary capital and political power (capture of the State).

One of your errors is to assume that the increases in productivity that lower prices for everyone are most harmful to the poor. In fact, the poor spend the greatest % of their income on basic necessities of life which you admitted. You assume that deflation due to increases in productivity are causing the poor to lose manual labor jobs and thus impoverishing them. Realize that these poor need to uplift their children with education so their children can be Knowledge Age workers and earn $200,000 a year fresh out of college working for Google.

You see Knowledge Age work is lucrative, challenging, fun, creative and manual labor is slavery, drudgery, inhumane, and poverty.

So removing manual labor jobs is a positive event, because it lowers costs and enables more people to spend on education.

But due to the welfare state financed with debt, many people don't bother to act wisely and get the right kind of STEM fields education. Debt causes the "poor" to become fat and lazy.

And so when the debt collapse comes and the government must cull the fat and lazy, then everyone gets what they deserve.

The amazing aspect of this shift into a Knowledge Age, is that knowledge creation mostly can't be financed. Sure you can dangle a little bit of money in front a programmer and it might entice him to work on a project. But the best ones are going to work on what is interesting as a first and primary consideration. Because they can already earn more $ than they really need to be happy, so it more about choosing work that makes them feel happy.

I could probably say a lot more to make some better points, but I am very sleepy. Try reading my essay which I linked in the prior post.

Edit: regarding your recent post (which I wasn't replying to above), you put too much emphasis on IQ and not enough emphasis on the fact that debt and welfare makes people unmotivated. Many people have a creative knowledge attribute regardless of their test score on an IQ test. Let me quote for you from one of my essays:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Algorithm_!=_Entropy

Then you misunderstood me, I know exactly what i`m talking about, and you misquoted me i think you referred to this:

Which is a danger to society, yes manual jobs need to evaporate with technology but here is the catch.

80% of the population has an IQ under 105 , how are you going to put these people in high mental capacity requiring jobs when most of them are braindead monkeys. Most people work with their hands and not with their brain , because they don't have one.



It would be the optimal society if everybody would be an office worker, or a self-employed entrepreneur, and the manual labour would be done by robots, BUT 80% of the people can't even tie their shoelaces without welfare and government oversight over their jobs, so it's highly unlikely that they fit for the entrepreneur job.



So what 1% of the people would be the employees and 99% would be welfare freeloader parasites, is that your dream economy? (because the 99% either dont have the capital or the intelligence to create jobs, even for themselves in this future of yours)

RealBitcoin, you act as if manual labor is a nirvana that people should want to retain. Your understanding is entirely incorrect just like most goldbugs you are clueless. You have a lot to learn and the process of admitting you've been totally lied to, is not going to be an easy adjustment for you. Let me think about how I can efficiently give you an education in economics. I will post again shortly.

Haha, I searched Google and my essay from the opening post of this thread is the first listing!

https://www.google.com/search?q=repetitive+manual+labor+is+does+not+use+the+brain

Demise of Finance, Rise of Knowledge - Cool Page

Well its divergent, unfortunately with keynesian economics, inflation diverges.

Common people's products go down in price (deflation in the poor strata)
Rich people's products go up in price (inflation for investors & speculators)

This looks nice and shiny (except that jobs also evaporate in the process and taxes rise), but when the next collapse hits it will reverse.

There will be deflation for stock markets, and bonds, and other financial instruments, and massive inflation for food, clothes and other. Thats why you see so many central bankers crying that there is not enough inflation, because they refer to the inflation of their own instruments a.k.a stock market pumping and bond pumping

What you are really talking about here is "accessing your own value". We can save america without rhetoric or violence, it just takes the knowledge to see what exactly has happened to the money system, and to consider that no one can (lawfully) force you to use the debt-money system, so there must be an alternative!

And a miniscule (and shriveling in terms of relative growth) portion of the intangible knowledge economy.

Relative size is an important concept in economics, as well as scalability and relative rates of growth.

And that 'beauty' attribute is not the attribute that historically imparted most of the value to gold. Rather gold was a more rare, compact, fungible, durable physical representation of physical value in a physical economy where trade of physical objects was the major aspect of the economy. It was like packing a bunch of land into a compact, transportable form. Whereas if you review my essay linked from the opening post of this thread, I argue that knowledge creation is accretive, spontaneous, and the property of the creator, thus it can't be tied to money or physical value. Knowledge creation is like an end-to-end principled network in that middle men (Theory of the Firm) can only obstruct it.

Semi-/precious metals and stones (e.g., rose, white, and yellow gold and diamonds) are "standard of [metallurgical and geological, respectively] beauty," and beautifulness is "intangible knowledge" (TPTB_need_war) (i.e., knowledge).

Josef Stalin's "standard of living" was substantially "higher" than that of those Soviets which endured the Holodomor.

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(Colorization mine.)

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Already having substantive quantities of capital (or the rhetoric [and/or violence] to convince others to ensure the person does).

This is already true. Look you can go into a dollar store (or other efficient distributor) and buy thousands of manufactured items that used to have 1+ orders of magnitude higher cost. Conversely I can not think of a single manufactured item that is an order of magnitude more expensive than it used to be. Not even one.

This is only not glaringly obvious due to the (reverse?) boiled frog effect.

There is also the dictatorial rule, which is not necessarly plutocratic(feudal, noble republic ancestors) , based on the absolute rule of 1 individual or a small group of individuals. This differs from plutocracy in the sense that it's not wealth oriented, it's power oriented, absolute domination (soviet union ,etc.)

I`d prefer a decentralized capitalism model, where everyone could have enough money to prosper, but not enough money to subjugate his fellow men. And since the majority of people would have equal wealth and the rich would be only richer by x50 or maybe x100 but not by x100000000 as it is now, so the income and wealth gap would be smaller.

If wealth would be correctly distributed, by merit of each individual (and not by blindless socialist redistribution which goes to the most unproductive), is by definition a free market capitalism.

Since what other (financial) merit can a person have other than run a succesful business and become rich?

During the lost era where physical trade was the economy, precious metals represented physical value.

No one is measuring knowledge value in units of precious metals.

Gold simply does not back anything any more because it no longer correlates to the intangible knowledge that is valuable in an era where knowledge moves the economy.

Back your lost era, knowledge was less important than land ownership, number of head of cattle, etc..

Also we are in era where digital reach is ubiquitous geographically, thus there is no place to hide from the fact that governments want to be able to tax and physical gold as untraceable cash would prevent them from doing so. Thus governments will fight gold as cash and besides for the reasons I stated above, gold is not a representation of value any more in the knowledge age.

Gold is hanging on because the physical industrial age is not quite dead yet. But gold is fading fast.

The physical economy is fading away in relative value (relative to knowledge creation value). It won't too long from now that physically manufactured items will be nearly free.

"There are two types of [earthly governments]": plutocracies either heterarchical or hierarchical.

Ok but i dont know which one of you is the socialist, but do you guys realize that socialism will only worsten that labour compensation problem.


I am a 100% hardcore pure capitalist, and I also agree that people work more and more and earn less and less, but socialism will only make things worse.


The root cause of this issue is the money printing mechanism / overregulation. If you could liberate the economy and end money counterfeiting, then I guarantee you the chart would look like this in a few years:

Let's fight back and win.

I maintain that the real cannot be known (and vice versa). Your argumentation, however, presumes that discourse could pertain to the real. We shall now, therefore, debate, indirectly, the in-/validity of philosophical realism.

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(Conception deprives one of that which accompanies antithetical-thereto non-conception.)


Plutocracy (which is not, necessarily, oligarchy) "would [not] be business oriented" (RealBitcoin), for "business" (RealBitcoin) is competitive and would, necessarily, jeporadize the political status of a plutocrat (which derives authority from wealth).

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If one should discuss it, it should prove non-veridical. It should also, however, persist within its conception.

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If the farmer could so "rebell " (RealBitcoin) the "ruler" (username18333) would not be a "violence monopolist" (username18333) (emphasis added).

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Not only do trees not combat each other "in a colosseum" (RealBitcoin), but even bonobos do not do that.

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A "need[]" (RealBitcoin) for food does not equate to the like for caviar. Likewise, "some level or organization is always needed in society" (RealBitcoin) "does not equate to the like for" (username18333) "skyscrapers[] and massive projects" (RealBitcoin).

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Knowledge is contrived, and the contrived is arbitrary categorically; therefore, both any and every constituent thereof is so arbitrary.

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National governments affect states and provinces without also being state and provincial governments (respectively). An international government, therefore, could affect nations "without also being" (username18333) a national government.

A lot of statistics tell us the real devastation is near.