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Topic: Economic Totalitarianism - page 114. (Read 345738 times)

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
June 16, 2015, 11:11:16 PM
Your choices are your choices. Either choose or do not.

"Is it because problems are infinite or the correct solution has yet to be found?"

This relates to Crony Capitalism, and the Law. Most professions avoid paradox but within
Law it is everywhere. I will give an example, but caution against arguing from the
particular to the general.
Two bitcoiners enter into a contract. They agree that 2+2 does not equal 4 but one argues
for 3 and the other 5. They seek arbitration, and the decision is that the contract is null
and void. There is no correct solution and each proposition is equally valid or invalid. (If you
prefer you can argue whether 0 is positive or negative). The essential point in Law is that
both positions can be true but only one can prevail. That is paradox.
The point I want to make here is that bitcoiners should establish a principle in Law that the
Arbitrator should act for the Cryptocurrency community in general, and in this case for the
Bitcoin community in particular. There will be issues that cross national boundaries hence the
Bitcoin Community needs their Contract Law to favour their Community. They need their own
form of Crony Capitalism, and their own version of the TPP, TTIP.
  
There are other relevant matters, but it is better to proceed step by step.

That's fine and I don't agree or disagree with it as outlined here--as long as we are calling it what it is and not packaging it as "Mankind's Salvation."

As for my choice, I believe Bitcoin, Monero, et al, are economic tools which can be wielded with political aims (if that's your thing), but now is more the time to position yourself behind which tool will be more useful (more disruptive) rather than try to impose your will on a nascent market that could swing wildly without the slightest (obvious) provocation. Am I the only one who thinks it is weird that the TPTB aren't fighting BTC tooth and nail in the street?

"All warfare is based on deception. There is no place where espionage is not used. Offer the enemy bait to lure him." Sun Tzu

Now, that said, the war council is greedy and doesn't understand all the implications of this pet dragon. They think they have put a rein on its neck and forced it to bow before their superior leadership, that they have found a new demigod to force secrets from the subservient while filling their coffers with untold wealth--but they have yet to see its darker kin who wait behind the palace walls.

or

"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans." John Lennon

My main point, is that no one will give a shit a thousand years from now, and this great battle will most likely be another chapter of status (human) qou in a history that may or may not be transferred to an algorithm by our less human, more AI offspring. As Nick Land said, "Nothing human makes it out of the near-future...."

I'm more interested in watching the great evolutionary transference than any short-lived victory over the overlords while becoming just another overlord who will be taken out by another regime intent on taking out the freshly appointed overlord. In the meantime, I'm going to use the best tech available to satisfy my primal urge to procure the best available housing and food stuffs and to procreate with the best mate(s)  available  Wink --the rest is not seeing the huge forest of primate-evolutionary-adaption-with-little-to-no-political-change from the always well fertilized tree of  political revolution.





sr. member
Activity: 268
Merit: 256
June 16, 2015, 06:25:25 PM
Your choices are your choices. Either choose or do not.

"Is it because problems are infinite or the correct solution has yet to be found?"

This relates to Crony Capitalism, and the Law. Most professions avoid paradox but within
Law it is everywhere. I will give an example, but caution against arguing from the
particular to the general.
Two bitcoiners enter into a contract. They agree that 2+2 does not equal 4 but one argues
for 3 and the other 5. They seek arbitration, and the decision is that the contract is null
and void. There is no correct solution and each proposition is equally valid or invalid. (If you
prefer you can argue whether 0 is positive or negative). The essential point in Law is that
both positions can be true but only one can prevail. That is paradox.
The point I want to make here is that bitcoiners should establish a principle in Law that the
Arbitrator should act for the Cryptocurrency community in general, and in this case for the
Bitcoin community in particular. There will be issues that cross national boundaries hence the
Bitcoin Community needs their Contract Law to favour their Community. They need their own
form of Crony Capitalism, and their own version of the TPP, TTIP.
 
There are other relevant matters, but it is better to proceed step by step.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
June 16, 2015, 01:06:11 AM
@generalisethis - Choose, or the choice will be made for you by others.

Totalitarianism is not new : 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-14/cornering-earth-how-rothschilds-controlled-least-one-third-global-wealth-over-100-ye
"Several attempts looking to a vast increase of the bonded debt of the United States have been made, other attempts will be made. But this Government should pay every dollar of its bonded debt and then stay out of debt. It would be a wholesome example to the world. It would show to all nations the advantages of self-government and human liberty."

"Do not press a desparate enemy" - Sun Tzu.

Define the choices.

Every age has had men and women who have claimed a solution to mankind's problems and every age has failed. Is it because problems are infinite or the correct solution has yet to be found?

Add Ockham's razor.

 Wink

"Keep on trying." Stevie Wonder
 
sr. member
Activity: 268
Merit: 256
June 15, 2015, 05:16:31 PM
@generalisethis - Choose, or the choice will be made for you by others.

Totalitarianism is not new :  
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-14/cornering-earth-how-rothschilds-controlled-least-one-third-global-wealth-over-100-ye
"Several attempts looking to a vast increase of the bonded debt of the United States have been made, other attempts will be made. But this Government should pay every dollar of its bonded debt and then stay out of debt. It would be a wholesome example to the world. It would show to all nations the advantages of self-government and human liberty."

"Do not press a desperate enemy" - Sun Tzu.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 15, 2015, 02:33:20 PM
i've always said that when it comes down to federated server pegged SC's, go right ahead.  it doesn't change the protocol so i don't worry.

It can be the leverage that causes the protocol to effectively change by replacement of Core. A pegged side chain that is undeniably superior to Bitcoin Core could suck all the BTC out of Core and that pegged side chain could have the spvp implemented. That isn't a guarantee of it happening, but from my perspective the odds are quite high. One of the attributes that raises the odds of such is the resistance to changing the protocol of Core. Thus any undeniably superior tech is unlikely to be politically implementable in Core.

I repeat that a consensus algorithm which can't be 50% attacked has an even better odds of catapulting Core, because it won't be vulnerable in its infancy.

This journey has been like playing a strategy game. I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

this is where you are so wrong! what is superior? Bitcoin is not defined by a hierarchy of superiority, its defined by a juxtaposition of incentives that create a network of people that benefit from those incentives and so the tool is created it's spreads natural like a virus. Those who see value in the tool can use it those who don't use other tools like fiat, alts or gold or whatever they think is hierarchically superior.

the only reason a "superior" sidechain can exist is because the incentives inherent in the Bitcoin protocol have been changed and a bigger network of users could by some engendering supersede Bitcoins network in size, the result is if that were to happen yes all the Bitcoin value would be sucked out.

So superior is defined only as something all those non thinking masses you want to heard believe is better, it doesn't have to be better in any way that's important to me, in fact by your definition of "superior" could even apply to an inflationary sidechain that is followed by the economic majority, with a little manipulation from TPTB, bitcoiners would move there bitcoin over just to survive.

if you want to test whether or not your idea had market appeal use a Spin-off, if you want to co opt Bitcoin and leverage its first mover advantage promote centralized development and Sidechains. The problem is your competing with the actual TPTB for the succeeding SC, not the free market.

If you believe largest size = maximum ROI, then you don't have much experience as an investor or you haven't learned from your experience. If you believe that the largest system always subsumes the smaller, fasting growing (in percentage terms) system, then you fail to study history.

If you haven't forgotten there are three reasons people invest in Bitcoin:

1) Gain wealth

2) Change the world according to their ideology

3) Protect their future wealth against a burgeoning totalitarianism

Superior means technology, marketing, and ecosystem kicking Buttcon's a$$ on all of those key attributes.

For example, Buttcon can not do micropayments now. That is an immediate opening for example. But it is not the only one. I (or let's say the group I'm delegating to) won't reveal the entire hand of cards just yet...

If you view the world's wealth as a pie, then the earliest investors gain the largest slice of the pie. The NWO coin is the dying paradigm. Large but dying. It will expropriate all the wealth it sucks into it.

Stay in Buttcon and you will end up a pauper at the end of it all. With pegged side chains, you have potential outlet to great wealth.

Edit: the larger a system becomes, especially a political system like this, the more difficult it becomes to make any changes to it. It will become more and more brittle over time. You have no experience at all with software and scaling if you don't understand clearly that Bitcoin core is doomed long-term. You must have outlets for innovation, else you will end up with an inescapable morass. Nothing scales monolithically. Only the End-to-end principle scales and Bitcoin core doesn't have it.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 15, 2015, 01:38:46 PM
We have to create a decentralized environment not only on currency level but on every type of online transaction we make. ... As big as decentralized environment becomes, smaller the disturbances from governments.

You onto the master plan...

Also there are bigger picture network effects that have a more high level relevance to decentralization ecosystems.
full member
Activity: 166
Merit: 100
June 15, 2015, 01:21:14 PM
...

This thread is actually in honor of CoinCube (who started the very popular "Economic Devastation" thread).

Smiley

But, that thread wanders into difficult philosophical terrain, and I am interested in hearing opinions (practical!) re what we can do about "Economic Totalitarianism":

1) The new War on CA$H (Zero Hedge is covering this tpoic pretty well)

2) ZIRP/NIRP

3) Whether any of our apparently worthless Prez candidates have any decent ideas to save our financial butts.  And who is worse (the worst).

4a) Ideas that EACH of us might be able to do to defend ourselves from abusive .gov trying to take ever-more of our hard-earned money...

4b) Where assets like BTC, "alts", physical gold, foreign real estate, "Plan B", etc. may fit in...



Ideas anyone?

I´m too old to learn to program, nor interested (in this thread) in obscure discussions of Marxism, "idiots", personal attacks, etc.

I want practical ideaz and resultz, fishez!


I suppose your 4a's answer is in 4b question. We have to create a decentralized environment not only on currency level but on every type of online transaction we make. Whether it is online transactions between banks, ecommerce, lending, borrowing, or any thing. We should promote decentralized currencies and try to attach more users to it. As big as decentralized environment becomes, smaller the disturbances from governments.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 15, 2015, 01:02:42 PM
I reiterate my statement. For knowledge capital to trade and invest optimally in the Knowledge Age, we need anonymous, decentralized, micropayments money.


Quote from: Plato, _Euthyphro_, 380 BCE
Soc. Then that which is dear to the [plutocrat]s, Euthyphro, is not [money], nor is that which is [money] loved of [plutocracy], as you affirm; but they are two different things.
(Germaneness mine.)

Ontologically, “the [currency] or [money]” (qtd. in username18333) cannot (at least, substantively) undermine an international plutocracy.

Society will always be a bell curve and not uniformly distributed.

But the Knowledge Age paradigm shifts the incentives for those who concentrate the knowledge capital, such that incentives align with the ends of the network due to the End-to-end principle of network scaling.

It was the friction of high fixed capital investment of the Industrial Age which prevented optimal network scaling.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Knowledge could but approximate existence.
June 14, 2015, 05:19:31 PM
I reiterate my statement. For knowledge capital to trade and invest optimally in the Knowledge Age, we need anonymous, decentralized, micropayments money.


Quote from: Plato, _Euthyphro_, 380 BCE
Soc. Then that which is dear to the [plutocrat]s, Euthyphro, is not [money], nor is that which is [money] loved of [plutocracy], as you affirm; but they are two different things.
(Germaneness mine.)

Ontologically, “the [currency] or [money]” (qtd. in username18333) cannot (at least, substantively) undermine an international plutocracy.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1852
June 14, 2015, 01:13:37 PM
...

TPTB's frequent references to Martin Armstrong have helped me find many further examples of Economic Totalitarianism.  Today's example is his article wondering why (and explaining...) why no banksters have personally gone to jail since the 2007 - current financial crisis started:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/33417

It looks like Armstrong will be as useful a source as Zero Hedge is for further demonstrations of Economic Totalitarianism.

*   *   *

NO ONE of significance has gone to jail.

NONE of our financial problems have been solved.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 14, 2015, 07:02:05 AM
I don't know what part of decentralized Knowledge Age you don't get. Mankind is not going to back to the stone age and barter. Sorry.


Quote from: Plato, _Euthyphro_, 380 BCE
Soc. We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the [capital] or [money] is beloved by the [1‱] because it is [money], or [money] because it is beloved of the [1‱].
(Germaneness mine.)

Instead, economically, “you bring their knife to your gunfight” (username18333).

I reiterate my statement. For knowledge capital to trade and invest optimally in the Knowledge Age, we need anonymous, decentralized, micropayments money.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Knowledge could but approximate existence.
June 14, 2015, 02:03:46 AM
I don't know what part of decentralized Knowledge Age you don't get. Mankind is not going to back to the stone age and barter. Sorry.


Quote from: Plato, _Euthyphro_, 380 BCE
Soc. We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the [capital] or [money] is beloved by the [1‱] because it is [money], or [money] because it is beloved of the [1‱].
(Germaneness mine.)

Instead, economically, “you bring their knife to your gunfight” (username18333).
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 13, 2015, 11:27:58 PM

Perfect. They are forcing gambler's to go anonymous internet and anonymous internet money.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 13, 2015, 11:26:30 PM
My efforts now are not about raising awareness. They are about building technology for hiding things. And I have some major insights into innovation of cryptocurrency to make it truly decentralized, scalable, and anonymous (Bitcoin lacks all 3 attributes).

Forsooth, you bring their knife to your gunfight. (But the genius machinates thus.  Roll Eyes )

I don't know what part of decentralized Knowledge Age you don't get. Mankind is not going to back to the stone age and barter. Sorry.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Knowledge could but approximate existence.
June 13, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
My efforts now are not about raising awareness. They are about building technology for hiding things. And I have some major insights into innovation of cryptocurrency to make it truly decentralized, scalable, and anonymous (Bitcoin lacks all 3 attributes).

Forsooth, you bring their knife to your gunfight. (But the genius machinates thus.  Roll Eyes )
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 13, 2015, 08:56:25 PM
Quote
There is no time to waste getting uncorrupted elements of the alt media to expose Bitcoin for what it is.  I hope you share the smoking guns you've found with as many liberty minded people as you possibly can.   Wide exposure ensures your safety and the safety of your project.  Best of luck.

No solution for mankind will come from exposing Bitcoin nor any other PR efforts. The masses are going into the NWO and they will drag everything that can't be hidden down with them.

My efforts now are not about raising awareness. They are about building technology for hiding things. And I have some major insights into innovation of cryptocurrency to make it truly decentralized, scalable, and anonymous (Bitcoin lacks all 3 attributes).

If you want to survive the Dark Age coming, you will need to be proficient in these technologies for hiding your wealth and sources of income.

The independent minded people you see in Colorado will jump to comply with NWO directives for as long as they can keep their lifestyles 90% intact.

Let me show you my equation for the slow burn:

0.90 ^ n

Where n = the duration of the slow burn and ^ is the exponentiation operator.

Humans comply to keep 90%. Rinse and repeat.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 13, 2015, 03:25:50 PM
Because I am not up-to-speed on communicating with the Monero devs (on Github or other back channels), and because my efficiency is my utmost priority and given posting in this forum is the most efficient way for me to communicate my thoughts to all that follow me, I will post this somewhat out-of-band comment here in hopes of getting a response from smooth (or if need be tacotime or fluffypony).

I do not have time to read various Monero research papers and otherwise dig to see if the following concern is already addressed.

I am concerned about a hole in the anonymity of Cryptonote ring signatures. I had sort of described this issue to smooth (who apparently relayed it to all) when I was contemplating ways that BCX might unmask the anonymity of users. I do not recall if I made this specific weakness explicit as follows.

If the actual input to a transaction (in Monero terminology this is the output of the prior transaction) is not also an input to another transaction's ring signature (and when all the other inputs to the ring are spent) or if it is also the input to a subsequent ring in which all the other inputs were outputs created after the said transaction was created, then the anonymity of the said transaction is entirely unmasked.

Combinatorial trees can be searched as well, thus even if only some of the other inputs were outputs created after the said input was created, this could cascade into unmasking the anonymity or at least reducing the anonymity set. And note the anonymity set also vulnerable to further reduction by out-of-band attacks such as IP de-obfuscation, rubber hoses, stolen private keys, hacked users, etc.

There are some tweaks that need to be made to insure the above is unlikely. Hopefully Monero is enforcing some restrictions already on which outputs can be used in ring inputs? If not, they need to get on it pronto.

P.S. for those who thought I wasn't sincerely attempting to help Monero during the BCX incident, I hope the above satisfies you. I think before I had an agreement with the Monero devs (via smooth) not to write publicly all the details of the above weakness in order to give them time to address it. I think they've had sufficient time and I want to make sure this is addressed.
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