Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 93. (Read 40928 times)

Yes, I didn't mention a country name. I tried to refer to regions that do not have financial access. I have no bad thoughts about Africa or El Salvador. I respect these geographies and the people who live there. I just wanted to say my expectations.

Until the First International, Marx was waiting for the workers' revolution in one of the developed capitalist countries because the working class was most oppressed in these countries. His prediction did not come true, but he evaluated the current conditions simply and powerfully. Likewise, I was trying to establish a simple and powerful logic. Bitcoin had the potential to gain mass adoption at revolutionary speed in geographies with limited financial access.


https://twitter.com/WorldBankAfrica/status/1002901452237524997



But the African and El Salvadorian experiences empirically disproved this simple thesis. That's why I find Bitcoin adoption in Africa and El Salvador slower than expected. Personally, I expected dizzying demands from geographies like these.

I also don't want to believe she'd conducted an updated research on this analysis before publication because on average level every El-Savadoran has the legitimate right to using it as an alternative to USD for making payments, now this has to do with the data from their statistics that has a backing hand to ascertain the fact to this, but i will also like to state this that the local businesses may not be equiped with the infrastructure needed yet for the use for thier transactions but what about the coperate organizations and enterprises that make use of bitcoin in their transactions daily, i noticed that most El-Savadoran have their bitcoin as investment and wouldn't accept using it on a large scale for their daily expenses but rather convert little to fiat for spendings while some don't actually care not to.


I also don't get the fact for these ascertation, maybe it was strictly on a particular type of business or not but the tourism should be the most acceptable means for bitcoin payment such a way that those coming for tourist activities will have to convert their fiat to bitcoin before they can be able to enjoy the activities there, but I know the Nayib Bukele regime is not the type that enforces an implementation on the people but he will rather make it optional.


This 30% is a reasonable amount for an increasing income generated and this could not be possible if the tourist were not actually committed to using bitcoin in their payments services.

Just a small note on a percentage that I saw thrown around yesterday, that I don’t recall seeing on English written media. El Salvador’s Tourism Minister stated indirectly (*) that, specifically in her sector of concern, 15% of the business in the tourism sector are receiving payments in bitcoin.

The slightly annoying thing is the choice of the term "using" when referring to the said 15%. One cannot infer properly whether she means accepting or accepting and receiving bitcoin TXs. I presume the latter, since legally they should all be accepting, providing they have the infrastructure for it.
Of course, there is no context to that figure, which leads to some headlines I’ve seem flipping the number and stating that 85% of tourism related businesses were not "using" bitcoin. Likely, that 15% is prone to be more concentrated in certain types of business and tourism areas, precisely where the majority of tourists go.

The Minister also stated that adopting bitcoin has generated 30% more income for the tourism sector. That’s yet another figure I’d like to see properly contextualized, especially if the increment is compared to Covid figures which, bitcoin or no bitcoin, are bound to be way lower than those of nowadays per se.

(*) She actually stated that 500 business were "using" bitcoin, there being 3.418 registered companies in the tourism sector.

See (GT): https://www-criptonoticias-com.translate.goog/finanzas/15-sector-turismo-el-salvador-recibe-pagos-bitcoin/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp

As the sale of El Salvador debt bunds discussion and process gotten to a conclusion with the issuance of the bund to prospective investors who may want to invest in the economy of El Salvador and a target of 2025 interest yielding bund a measure taken by president Nayib Bukele for economic recovery projects that aim at maturity in 2023-2025.
This project also includes the building of the bitcoin city and the volcano power project that is designed to power the bitcoin city and some other revenue-generating agencies in El Salvador, president Nayib Bukele also announced the government buying of a total of 54% of the bond at $565 million as a government repurchasing of the entire public bond but what is not clear right now is if the entire bond was sold out to bidders in 100% sale out at the moment.
And with the way things are going the president of El Salvador Nayib Bukele if re-elected in the coming election, will surely continue with the developmental plan as he is a pro-bitcoin individual and this will help the Economy of El Salvador in the long run.

Maybe at early stage of bear market condition negativity will spread because they criticize the decision of making bitcoin as legal tender. But if they understand that certain condition is normal on crypto for sure they can consider a lot of things in it. And its good that they starting to roll out a bitcoin education thing in there since for sure they can learn more something valuable by using bitcoin on theur daily transactions and other more relevant ones.

Africa's dealings with bitcoin is an individual thing not collective and the approach administered by each countries is different from each other, and once we are talking of world continents, Africa has a different mentality from others not because they are blacks but they are developing countries in high percentage and wants means to facilitate their growth as in case of Central African Republic while some of them are just adamant about it all, but bitcoin is legalize in almost all the countries and many are thinking of possible means to imitate El-Savador's adoption but indecesiveness is a factor dealing with them from taking a step forward.


it surprised me as well and i asked myself what exactly now is the point one should believe in all he said if what he's referencing isn't right, well I just want to believe that it's a mistake he did maybe during the copy and paste of a thing or maybe he got the whole thing wrong from the right process, thanks JayJuanGee for such identification, many could have got misled by wrong articles that are not verified.

I havent been to this thread for quite a bit and I havent been following what is going on
in El Salvador unfortunately. I thought it was still going to be full of negativity.


I am delighted to know firstly that a proper Bitcoin education plan has been rolled out
and in keeping with the open source nature of Bitcoin the text is freely available to anyone.

Your link does not work (wmaurik provided some related links), and my understanding is that the "constitution" is not unambiguous on the point of running again.. so there are ways that the constitution can be interpreted to allow running again, even if historically none of the prior presidents read it that way..

In other words.. saying the "constitution does not allow" sounds like a spin on the topic.

But yeah of course, the topic seems to be relevant to this thread since Bukele is a pro-bitcoin leader, so many bitcoiners are going to consider it to be an advantage to NOT have the uncertainties regarding a transition in the administration - with the presumption that Bukele has pretty decent chances of winning if he were to run again (and if the matter seems to be settled that he is allowed to run again)..

We might have to look more closely at the actual constitutional language if members here are presenting issues as if they were absolutes.. when clearly, Bukele would not be running if there were not some kind of loop hole that he (and his administration) considers to be sufficiently legitimate to allow him to run again.

Are we going to need to look at the language of the constitution and get into the issue? or just accept that "Bukele is breaking the law blah blah blah"


He did not say that.  He specifically mentioned countries non-specifically and then he mentioned the African continent..

You seem to be the one that merged the two ideas and then presumed a specific country as you are now fleshing out your presumption further by saying maybe he meant CAR..

If something that a member said is already vague, then why make it more vague or worse by specifying it wrongly?


Other countries in Africa get attention too.. such as Nigeria and Ghana.. but still, getting back to my earlier point.. if we want to talk about any country, then each of them are going to have their specifics.. and the topic is not even limited to the ones we mentioned, and seems to be off topic for this thread unless we were to be making some kind of reference to how it might relate to El Salvador.. I mean this is not the any country thread.. so if we start to get off topic, then at least there should be some attempt to connect  the off-topic aspect with what we are talking about here. and if we want to get into a lot of details, we either need to go to another thread or create a new thread on that angle/topic.

Yes, if @trendcoin mentions Africa, it is possible that he meant the Central African Republic country located on the African continent. But he didn't even mention it more fully so it's still possible for some people to be confused, but if that's what he meant here, I think it's more specific to mention the topic "Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic" which is in section Economics because there has been a lot of discussion about what is happening in African states (especially the Central African Republic).


I also found this news on the Twitter account @nayibbukele, where he used El Salvador's independence day to make an announcement about his re-nomination.
And so far there have also been several other tweets on the @nayibbukele account about an invitation to hear a speech at the United Nations General Assembly and also being able to watch it on national television and on my social network at 8pm (El Salvador time).

Source:

• https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1571248005730258945
• https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1572222592051732480
• https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1572351617961234432

This might have a impact on El Salvador because,  President Bukele says he will seek re-election.

As per report, it's constitution doesn't allow the current President for reelection, but it seems Bukele wanted to run after his term in 2024. I think it will be critical for bitcoin as well, because if the next President suddenly make a U-turn on the country's stance on Bitcoin and vetoed, then maybe we will see the country no longer synonymous with bitcoin's adoption. Or if he is allow to run and then win again, obviously, it might continue to grow in the next 4-6 years in El Salvador alone.

To the extent that we are even "on topic" anymore, your statement about "Africa" is very confusing wmaurik.  Sure there is the African continent.. as referred to by trendcoin, but even that is problematic to talk about the African continent as if there were some kind of common administrative unit or approach.

There are a lot of countries in Africa, and if you are going to suggest that something that is going on in Africa, it would likely be more accurate to refer to specific countries and maybe you could refer to more than one country at a time or a region of countries that might have some connections, if there happens to be some aspects that they share in common.. yet I still believe it is going to be better to attempt to specify which country (ies) you are specifically referencing, if you are wanting to make any kind of comparison/contrast to some of the happenings to El Salvador (the topic of this thread) (if that was part of what was intended in terms of what you were posting?).


As long as we are talking about country by country, then I largely agree with the point that bitcoin touches upon a lot of sectors and there will likely be a variety of approaches, including that some countries (and some people) are going to get distracted into shitcoins and sometimes there are going to be difficulties for a variety of interest  groups, whether individuals, institutions or governments to clarify the extent to which they might be taking some kind of vague approach that does not highlight or attempt to focus on bitcoin (like El Salvador is doing) or to take some variation of their own path, and even if El Salvador might serve as a model, there sometimes are going to be reasonable justifications for countries (or regions) to take different approaches (or at least locally tailored approaches).

My dear friend, in a geography where access to financial services is so low (https://twitter.com/WorldBankAfrica/status/1002901452237524997), adoption rates of Bitcoin are expected to be higher under normal conditions. I'm not saying that Africa is reacting negatively to Bitcoin. On the contrary, I meant that since Africa has a very good attitude towards Bitcoin, it should have better adoption rates in the current conditions. Sorry if I said something wrong.

All in all, I think Africa is an excellent experimental space for cryptocurrencies. If we are to observe a great change in the world one day, we must see strong precursors of this change in Africa. I'm just a little impatient and would like to see more concrete cases.

why not limit it to bitcoin only, as for me i will rather prefer by going with bitcoin only than the combination of other cryptocurrencies I don't know about, so far so good, bitcoin has been the only most recognized digital currency for exchange, assets and store of value.


which of the financial services, with bitcoin digital currency or fiat?


I think you need to be more current in this regard because Africa has one of the top user's of bitcoin with a good number if it population from West Africa and Nigeria to be precise, highest users of paxful exchange, and the likes, I can't just mention more.

News about the adoption of cryptocurrencies in Africa has actually been circulating and has been in several media, it's just that there is nothing recent like the one made this month, but for the news in the previous month it has been promoted more by the media. This means that Africa already has very good plans for the adoption of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and is working to make that happen over time.

Some of the obstacles that you mention are indeed very reasonable so that the state must continue to strive to make other better ways so that it is no longer hampered by volatility, legal regulation, and financial literacy. Because of all that there will be more solutions if more people are willing to think about it in order to achieve the goal of mass adoption of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. After all it also includes the economic sector that is better for all of them.

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are an excellent choice for countries that are constantly experiencing macroeconomic problems and facing the reality of inflation. In this respect, the African continent is also a very suitable location for this new technology. Also, access to financial services in Africa is quite limited (just like in El Salvador), but we have yet to read any remarkable news about the mass adoption of cryptocurrencies in Africa.

I think, issues such as volatility, legal regulation and financial literacy may be an obstacle for the masses to prefer Bitcoin for now, but I am sure that the countries that take these courageous steps will one day be remembered with respect.

Isn't there a bit of a problem that you need to "deduce" the point(s) that you believe Wakate is trying to make?

I will concede that on a regular basis, forum members make posts (and points) that can be difficult to figure out; however, when there is so much additional obscurity that is created from a failure/refusal to use the word "bitcoin," then at least forum members should NOT either be shying away from the use of the word bitcoin or perhaps attempting to make it seem like they are talking about broader concepts (that go beyond bitcoin) by using the word "crypto" and to be implying that bitcoin is contained within the more broader word "crypto"  that they chose to use.

None of us should be having to try to figure out what the fuck other members are saying because they fail/refuse to use the word bitcoin - especially within a topic in which bitcoin is the subject matter - when we are referring to what El Salvador made into legal tender last year.

El Salvador did not make "crypto" into legal tender.. because that would have been retarded.. and don't get me wrong, there are some retarded people out there who are in positions of power, and luckily neither El Salvador (nor Bukele) took that kind of an unfocused path in terms of what they were trying to do upon implementing their law and what they seem to continue to do - 1 year after the law went into effect.


Ok.  

First of all, perhaps Wakate was wanting to say something like that, yet it seems that it would have been much easier to figure out if he would have at least clarified what he meant by "crypto" and how and where bitcoin might have fit into such picture that he was wanting to describe.

Second, why would there be any need to talk about what is happening with "crypto" as a whole rather than to just stay focused on what is happening with bitcoin.  Yeah... many people tend to not know what bitcoin is as compared with various vague-ass concepts like "crypto", so they just throw out the word "crypto" because they want it to appear as if they know what they are talking about because they are speaking more broadly.. beyond just talking about bitcoin.  Actually I don't have any problem with the idea of talking beyond bitcoin, but there are ways to describe such situation by talking about bitcoin and sometimes referring to bitcoin and various other crypto project.. or to refer to general price dynamics that might be happening beyond bitcoin on its own.. yet no matter what there still seems to be some need to figure out how to use the word bitcoin so we at least realize that you are trying to refer to bitcoin when using the "crypto" word "crypto"  


Who fucking cares about broad and general context without putting such claims within the framework of bitcoin?  It seems to me that we should be trying to focus on bitcoin first, and yeah sure we can talk about various outside factors that might affect bitcoin's UP or DOWN price dynamics, yet it is not going to get us very far to be vaguely referring to such general matters without figuring out where bitcoin might be in that mix.. or at least somehow tying bitcoin into the topic and even using the word bitcoin in order that we know what is being talked about instead of some vague general concepts about crypto.. and yeah, I know that a lot of people refer to vague general concepts, but that should not mean that we should allow ourselves to devolve into such gobble-dee-gook and muddy thinking and fail/refuse to specify what it is that we are trying to say exactly.. as it relates to bitcoin.

Tell me, why any of us should give any shits about general "crypto" dynamics unless we are just some no nothing shitcoiner who does not know the difference between bitcoin and a variety of shitcoins, and therefore tries to appear like s/he knows what the fuck s/he is talking about by using vague "crypto" language and describing some kind of vague concept that hardly even seems to matter without knowing about where bitcoin fits within that description.


Sure. I cannot disagree with you about preferring the analysis of something like El Salvador's Bitcoin adoption situation based on the longer-term rather than shorter-term considerations, because there are a lot of reasons that it could take a long time to figure out the extent to which El Salvador is advantaged or disadvantaged in regards to getting into bitcoin, and a lot of the bitcoin (and El Salvador) naysayers like to look at how the price of bitcoin had gone down in the past 10 months or so, and then to attempt to assign dire consequences on El Salvador, and the fact of the matter seems to be that El Salvador has a pretty small percentage of its overall treasury and cashflow that is locked away in bitcoin.  

Anyone should recognize and appreciate that the economies of countries are much more complex than either individuals or institutions, and even if we can make some comparisons regarding spending within our means and even various ways that money is invested, from the information that we have in the public, the size of El Salvador's bitcoin purchases, seems to be way less than 5% of its overall budget and other investments.. yet I am sure there are a variety of ways that budgets can be calculated and assessed, and I do not claim to have any specific contemporary information to make those kinds of assessments, even though it seems that some of that kind of information has been presented in this thread and in other El Salvador threads on the forum.. and sure it is likely possible to research into those kinds of size of budget and size of bitcoin investments assessments - even if perhaps all information is not available or even released on regular basis..

El Salvador has started accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender, what does this mean for the country and the future of Bitcoin?
This is a great opportunity for El Salvador and its people, from an invisible and irrelevant country, to be in the spotlight around the world. It will attract, technology, investors, businesses, tourists, new residents, etc.

For people who are mostly poor and unbanked, this is an opportunity to learn about this technology, invest safely and save money when receiving remittances. And having a bitcoin book and making it a subject will make all Salvadoran students and college students bitcoin experts in the long run, and perhaps others will be left behind because most of those who understand and engage with bitcoin are only those who have the awareness.

And for Bitcoin, this is good news but not so relevant. Bitcoin does not require countries to adopt it as a legal tender. It is already the de facto currency in many places like Venezuela or Nigeria even though the government doesn't like it. That's the beauty of Bitcoin, it doesn't need permission from some politicians, people want to use it and nothing can stop it.

I have read through @Wakate post and what I can deduce from the point he is trying to make is, the impact of the bear market on El Salvador Bitcoin adoption most especially as the announcement and subsequent buying of El Salvador Bitcoin holding were done at a time where the price of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies were at their all high price and since then over a year now the entire market has suffered loses and the bear market have continued which made many to view the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption as a failed experiments but revise is the case if the whole situation is a view on a long term view and not a short time Bitcoin condition. The general cryptocurrency market has suffered a lot of sets back in the year 2022 and if I understand @Wakate correctly, he was trying to use the current crypto market condition as a tool for global crypto adoption. Even despite the bear market, the rate of adoption has increased and this is why we often discourage members of the public to take a more holistic approach towards the subject matter of El Salvador Bitcoin adoption and giving it a long-time perspective and not short-time realities that are subject to change.

First country to introduced Bitcoin textbook to their students, first country to made Bitcoin legal to their citizens, infant El Salvador government are doing well. I think, this is a welcome development for any genuine government to impact Bitcoin to their citizens to enable them to understand Bitcoin technology very well so that their future will be colorful. I guess, El Salvador Bitcoin teachers will do everything possible within their power to ensure they make all the students in the country to understand everything in the Bitcoin textbook. No doubt, El Salvador students will be very good in the area of digital investment, because this Bitcoin textbook will make them to understand so many things that will make them professional in Bitcoin technology.