Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 97. (Read 38876 times)

Governments are encharged to use tax payer money; that's what governments do.  Surely, there are going to be differences of opinion regarding the extent to which any government is spending government resources in the interest of the people and if they are taking reasonable actions with money and resources.


Your mere characterization as bitcoin as a gamble rather than an investment does not make it so merely because you allege such, and does not even seem to be a logical conclusion based on current facts on the ground including that Bukele has been proclaiming that foreign investments into El Salvador and even tourism in El Salvador is way up since the announcement of the intention to pass  the Bitcoin tender law last June 2021, and even up higher than the amount of bitcoin that has been bought and invested into the government treasuries.  

Sure we have a work-in-progress and even some needs to verify whether claims are true, but I would think that Bukele is in a way better position to assess various financial matters in the country than you, even though I have no problem if you are attempting to use actual relevant and material facts to make your claims rather than what seems to be your ongoing negative nancy claims that seem to be largely removed from reality and skewed by your own seeming inabilities to appreciate bitcoin as an investment rather than a gamble.

Furthermore, there are many of us in the bitcoin space who have been hearing largely bullshit proclamations about bitcoin as a gambling technique rather than an investment, and many times the differences between investing and gambling has to do with details in the approach and or the apportionment of position size rather than the mere fact that bitcoin happens to be included in an investment portfolio... so in that regard, your mere assertion of bitcoin as a gamble seems far removed from the factual historical performance of bitcoin - especially over the longer term and especially if investors had been mostly accumulating bitcoin over the years within reasonable means (rather than over investing), and there is no evidence that El Salvador has been overinvesting into bitcoin.. rather than being reasonably assertive and directional.


For sure, there seems to be quite a bit of doom and gloom exaggeration regarding what El Salvador did in terms of just adding bitcoin as another option (besides keeping the dollar as an ongoing legitimate way to transact in the country), so for sure Bitcoin did not become exclusive or even pushed in any kind of meaningful/substantial way onto the people.. even though some of the law required larger companies (capable of internet services) to provide bitcoin transactions as an option... which seems to be more than a reasonable trade off, at least so far.. and yet we are still less than 1 year into the legal tender law going into effect (going live).

Ongoing claims of doom and gloom  do continue to come off as exaggerated rather than really having facts on the ground to back them up in any kind of meaningful/substantive ways.


You are probably correct that El Salvador is merely exercising prudent aggressiveness in terms of continuing to buy BTC on an ongoing basis, even while BTC prices are lower than their earlier purchases rather than gambling as what many of the bitcoin naysayers and El Salvador bashers (haters) seem to want to conclude without any real and materially meaningful evidence to support their claims about El Salvador's supposed gambling posture in relationship to bitcoin.

I don't understand the thinking of people who continue to associate bitcoin with a country's economic downturn. whereas if the country has an economic upturn then bitcoin is forgotten and not linked. oh really annoying.
like el salvador who also continues to be criticized by these strange people when the economy is in decline. as if the economic downturn was caused entirely by bitcoin.

I think you anti bitcoins should start opening your eyes and minds. that the current decline in the level of the economy is evenly distributed in almost all countries, even Britain and America, cannot be missed because they are also affected by the current economic downturn. i instead see el salvador having some improvement in its economy. such as in the tourism sector and others also increased rapidly there after the adoption of bitcoin. so that the income of the country's special income also increases. those who always attack el salvador seem to see that el salvador has replaced all the money there with bitcoin. even though el salvador only adopted bitcoin as a legal tender without replacing the dollar currency there.
and keep this in mind, regarding el salvador who keeps buying bitcoins like the latest 80 bitcoins at 19k price. logically why is el salvador still able and taking the time to buy bitcoin when other countries are in economic crisis. isn't that a good sign that el salvador has a booming economy so it's still able to buy bitcoins.

@Doan9269. I shake my head that you are trying to make it appear that the future of El Salvador's economy would depend on the price of bitcoin. Does that imply that president Bukele is gambling? Also, the mock is not about the bitcoin investment. The mock is he is using taxpayer's money to gamble on bitcoin while a worldwide economic recession is going to occur. Should we continue cheering for him if there began a social unrest calling for Bukele to step down? Will bitcoin fix this?

let's forget about what Peter Schiff said or not and that aside, let's now talk about reality, whose country's economy as at present is smoothly running well? just give a tour round the world and come with your conclusion on hoe you derive the outcome of a country that has not adopted bitcoin and still running a good economy today, everyone is sunk already into the pool of inflation all over, what makes them now have more survival opportunity than El-Savador which adopted Bitcoin? obviously nothing,


bitcoin will continue to repeat history while things are likely possible to change in El-Savador for good with time and others mocking will get to remain on a same spot and nothing changed for them later in the future.


Russia's case is exceptional here, there's justification to its present predicament


thank God the result is not concluded yet, some cases are worse than theirs.

Why you talking about the "crypto space" coinsrider?  El Salvador passed a bitcoin legal tender law.. are you talking about bitcoin, or some other topic?

Yes it is possible that what they are doing, a good economist, experts and believers and developer's in crypto space for the coming future.

Huh?  I did not realize that El Salvador was at the top of the list in terms of the various terms listed on that chart including % of debt as compared to GDP.. There are 5 countries with higher debt as compared with GDP.. but the other numbers on that chart supposedly count for something too in terms of how they rated El Salvador as the highest likelihood to default. 

Bloomberg.. I am sure that they are trustworthy and not really biased in any kind of way, right?

By the way, bbc.reporter.. Bitcoin is not El Salvador and El Salvador is not bitcoin.. furthermore El Salvador ONLY adopted bitcoin as legal tender, so I don't understand what the fuck relevancy "the cryptospace" supposedly going to look stupid.. hardly makes any sense to me, but hey maybe I am not accounting for all of the facts like you seem to be doing.. Bloomberg and all.. connections.. .. I am not opposed to attempting to figure out if there are some relevant facts that need to be considered, and you seem to believe your linked chart provides some relevant and meaningful data that needs to be considered in order to figure out if the bitcoin legal tender law was a good thing or not.

For some strange reason I thought that there were other relevant and meaningful facts, and in that regard, I was of the impression that El Salvador was increasing some of its income and GDP in recent times, and some of that supposed increases of income and GDP has been credited to their having had passed the Bitcoin legal tender law..

So if bitcoin as legal tender is helping El Salvador more than it is hurting it, then I am not sure about your point.. except that you just want to be a debbie downer and give undue weight to some facts that you believe are more relevant than El Salvador's having had increased some of their income and GDP in recent times, no?..

Everyone should stop giving much attention to Peter Schiff and pay more attention to the reality that El Salvador is not in a very good economic condition. It would certainly make everyone in the cryptospace look stupid if the government of El Salvador goes bankrupt while their president irresponsibly continues to take risks with taxpayer's money. Will bitcoin fix this?



Emerging markets are facing rising debt, slowing growth & soaring yields

Russia & Sri Lanka both defaulted -- for different reasons -- who's next?

We rank 50 countries to find El Salvador, Ghana, Egypt, Tunisia & Pakistan to be the most vulnerable

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/ziadmdaoud/status/1545316002317082624

I like the contest used by you saying " all that El-Savador is doing is about the future economy" should we assume that people now lack the ability to secure the future or were been afraid on weather the risk in doing so isn't worth the benefits to gain at the end, bit at least i believe in starting from somewhere first, one cannot sit with the fold of hands expecting change to come overnight, all hands mist be on desk, El-Savador might be passing through alot now probably but the set target which is the future goal will not make them stop or look back because better is the end of a thing than the beginning.


Which is a proof that he knows what he's doing, a good economist will understand better that El-Savador's president is confidently securing the future for the interest of the people, buying more the dip, this is indeed an investment on itself, when the price begin to go bullish then comes a smile on their faces.


The worst that could comes out from them is not to lend out money to them again but they can't decide for them what to do.

I admire and love that country very much, El Salvador and its president are worthy representatives of the truth, of technology, of everything that has to do with the economy of the future, the president of El Salvador does not care if the price goes down, if low he buys more, the war is being mounted from some parts of his people to the world bank, but this president does have his balls on the right track, because he firmly believes in what he thinks and knows that the potential is there, I would like to see the face of the Salvadorans when the Bitcoin begins to rise and reach 100,000 dollars and possibly more.

yes for sure, am also much concerned about that one thing that always and easily get people interested about shitcoins, yet some know the risk behind it but still prefers that same crooked way, El-Savador made the best decision on bitcoin and maintain it stance, keep buying even when it's dip, all i could come out with about altcurrencies is that they only have the potentials to make a void noise around seeking traffic.


if you are to introduce bitcoin to someone aren't you expected to explain in detail that aside the good side bitcoin also has it bad side which could lead to loosing the financial asset because of the volatility, before El-Savador could have adopted bitcoin as a legal tender, they understand the pros and cons therein, so this is not suppose to be a challenge whereas bitcoin isn't the only major financial source to El-Savador.

Also we should be a little realisitic when judging from the outside, imagine trying the task to fix el salvador.

• You need to convince the actual people in the country to vote for you and become a president
• This country probably had problems in every area with only limited resources to fix them.
• There is no comfortable infrastructure already in place.
• It takes actual ground work to fight poverty, violence, gangs and corruption.
• Not even having had a own currency and limited say in international politics, they were completely irrelevant to outsiders.
• Having like 5 years to make fundamental changes, to problems that existed since much longer, and then trying to get elected again.

Theyre a country with problems that far outreach Bitcoin, profits or some debt. Fixing this is in reality, is not an easy task, theres only so much you can/ are allowed to do. Our soft ass western politicians would fail hard for sure.

Also lets not act like El Salvador is not a sorveign country that needs our permissions to handle changes, i dont hear anyone complaining about the us or other countries when theyre actually wasting money for the biggest bs, and objectively speaking, what did El Salvador do terribly wrong in the situation theyre in? They introduced 1 legal tender law and all of a sudden everyone cares, because its Bitcoin. If they made worse choices no one would care, because no one was actually interested if theyre doing well in the first place.

The sad thing is that apparently Peter Schiff did nothing wrong, and his bank still got shut down, but that is exactly what we were talking about for so long. And yet these people think Bitcoin is just some toy with no real use cases, ignorance costs money and lifetime as were seeing.

During this time he continues to express his hatred and distrust of bitcoin, and even often underestimates people who invest in bitcoin such as Nayib Bukele and Saylor, when the price of bitcoin declines Peter Schiff often laughs and mocks the decisions taken by investors who choose bitcoin as an investment, I think Peter Schiff will continue to look for reasons to justify all his reasons so that he will not give up defending himself, from his recent tweets it seems he is starting to look for justifications and start blaming others to justify himself.
I hope his heart will be strong when he gets bullied from bitcoin lovers right now  .

I don't think this is a mockery or a dance on the bones on the part of Nayib Bukele, just his reaction to the closure of Schiff's bank in Puerto Rico and his January tweets, in particular, there was a tweet criticizing Bukele about the purchase of 410 BTC by El Salvador, so this is just a continuation of their protracted dialogue.

https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1484664429988159490

Once again, you are full of shit ImThour.. including but not limited to your ongoing attempts to place ur lil selfie as if you are the smartest person in the room.

Essentially, you are spinning matters with a kind of 20/20 hindsight, and you are also failing/refusing to actually grapple with facts on the ground that includes that El Salvador's approach to bitcoin goes beyond merely market buying bitcoin and attempting to maximize their purchasing of bitcoin at the lowest price and they are engaged in various kinds of country-wide investment/building-out attempts, which just shows that you are pretty damned close to 100% disingenuous or maybe just dumb.. but probably a bit of both. 


Good point.. let's try to grapple with some facts rather than bitcoin naysaying personal attack** spins.

**I am referring to attacks on Bukele. that seem to be either political or western-biased.

For sure, I do not proclaim to know all of the facts, but there seem to be a shitton of countries that have been getting royally screwed by some of the debasing practices of western governments (and world banking entities), so if we are going to proclaim that El Salvador has gone down the tubes in the last year or more, then we may want to attempt to compare El Salvador to similarly situated countries - and even if there were genuine attempts to consider if El Salvador might have been better off not passing its bitcoin as legal tender law, I doubt that fair assessments are even being attempted in that direction besides just making bare-assertion claims that El Salvador shouldn't have done it the way that they did. blah blah blah (like that disingenuine dweeb wannabe smarter than everyone else ImThour is doing).


You seem to be on the right track though tadamichi.. whatever they are doing and the various efforts that they are doing to build and incentivize the building of bitcoin infrastructure and practices is ongoing and way more complicated than just figuring out what time to get into their bitcoin purchases.

Sure, but any country got in huge debt during covid. I checked the numbers and he brought the debt to gdp down from 89% in 2020 to 82% now¹.

In theory yeah, but they’re not really trading the Bitcoin, its held in a trust fund accounted for in usd. They need this convert between usd and Bitcoin for Chivo etc. They can’t do trading with this, and it’s not the job of a state. When a country starts adopting they wont care about when theyre entering, because the bigger challenge is getting started with adoption. To me it seems like he actually tries to set up things for the benefit of the country, and not himself. But then again im not his lawyer and am also working with limited information.


[1] https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2022/April/weo-report?c=253,&s=LUR,GGR,GGR_NGDP,GGX,GGX_NGDP,GGXCNL,GGXCNL_NGDP,GGSB,GGSB_NPGDP,GGXONLB,GGXONLB_NGDP,GGXWDG,GGXWDG_NGDP,NGDP_FY,BCA,BCA_NGDPD,&sy=2017&ey=2027&ssm=0&scsm=1&scc=0&ssd=1&ssc=0&sic=0&sort=country&ds=.&br=1

The fact that he is laughing at other's failure when he himself made his country in so much debt is funny to me.
I mean, he bought without hiring a single person from his whole country who can do some good level TA.

When he was FOMO'ing, everyone, even my Labrador called to sell. That's what I find actually funny.

The irony when people who go hard against Bitcoin, are getting rekt by central authorities. Peter Schiff got a reality check and he will probably still not admit that he’s wrong.

The El Salvador president is so bullish on Bitcoin, since he have understanding on how the stock market works and I he is not in for the sell-off or short term purposes, and this can be seen in his response to a throw I stumbled on this tweet from Reddit so let me share it here. I guess this will give a clue to what President Nayib Bukele stance on on the current market situation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/vtfuep/hows_your_bank_going/?

The good news is that it seems like it's climbing, the bad news is that is almost 1/3 of the first month where probably everyone was trying to figure out what this is and how it works. Diving a bit into those numbers, looking at the average remittance being $195, picking the option of paying in cash at a WU location and cash pick-up in Salvador too (which is not the cheapest), it costs 8$ for 200$, so it means that in the last month Salvadorians have avoided around $500 000 in fees over WU.

Of course, that goes both ways as cash locations offices in Salvador will get a share of that so the money is not completely lost, plus there is the cost with all those ATMs, the infrastructure for them so right now the government is probably heavily subsiding something that has little effect overall. Numbers really need to pick up by an order of magnitude to see some results.

Anyhow, nice that they finally publish some numbers as for a while it seemed that transparency was their last priority
Now I really want to hear some updates on that built for mining brand new geothermal plant