Topic: Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB - page 69. (Read 1061485 times)

No. That isn't right. Even an empty block helps people out. If nothing else, the empty block makes the coinbase transaction from 120 blocks previous become spendable. In practice, the empty block brings all those 5-confirmation transactions up to 6 confirmations (and 2-confirmation transactions up to 3 confirmations, etc.) The presence of the empty block makes transactions confirm faster than they would have if the empty block weren't there.

A full block is better than an empty block. But an empty block is better than nothing. (And a block at the same height and roughly the same time as someone else's partially propagated block, which temporarily splits the network into two chains of equal height, is significantly worse than nothing.)

Ideally, transaction fees probably wouldn't go solely to the block in which they were located, but would go to that block and future blocks which build upon them (maybe in a declining way like 50% to the first block, 25% to the second block, 13% to the third block....I don't know as I haven't fully thought about it). Right now it doesn't particularly matter, as the transaction fees are small compared to the block reward. But in the future when there are no block rewards at all, just transaction fees, there might be problems due to this (if someone puts an especially large fee on a transaction, there might be an incentive for miners to "steal" that transaction fee by orphaning the block which includes it instead of building upon the block which includes it). Fortunately there are many years before this will become an issue.


In addition to the direct benefits of faster confirmations and faster spending of generated coins, think about how the inclusion or non-inclusion of the empty block affects someone who is performing so-called "selfish mining" or some other sort of block delaying attack.

I appreciate the answers, but the "increases security" reason seems like nonsense to me.  The purpose of the block is not to provide security, it is to record transactions.  Security is inherent in the way the network was designed.

Yes, the empty block is followed by a block of transactions, but I still contend that the empty block is worthless to the network.

Happy mining.

I'll have to try that, as well as try to find that updated description of what transactions are accepted.

There are a lot of transactions where I'd be happy to send a small fee. But $0.20+ to transfer $2.50 between wallets (where I control both ends so I don't really care about the speed or double-spend security of the transaction) is too much.

Not sure on the "begger transaction" thing, but I suppose it makes some sense in context.  I assume it's also a reference to the small spam transactions that split into 100+ tiny outputs and the like, essentially pointless transactions.

As for transaction submission, most Eligius servers (*.eligius.st) will accept a P2P connection on a public bitcoin node that will accept the transactions, which has been sufficient for most since before and after I disabled the never-really-supported pushtx page that was being abused.

I'm not sure why your partner would refer to transactions with no fee (or even with a fee less than 0.1 "TBC", as I understand it) as "begger transactions" then.

By the way, how is someone supposed to submit a low-fee transaction to Eligius? I believe the direct submission form was taken down. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/pushtxn.php always gives me "Sorry, function disabled.  Contact wizkid057 directly if you need a transaction mined."

wizkid057: I need a transaction mined! (Well, not right now, but I often would like to send a small, low priority transaction for less than $0.20 in fees, and unfortunately the default client treats a $0.01 fee the same as no fee at all.)

... haha.... hahahahhaha...... hahahahahahahahahah. lol.  That made my morning.



Yep, fortunately it's not the only thing we worry about, which is why Eligius still uses the largest block size of any pool to date (most others limit to some arbitrarily low number), mines transactions with a reduced fee schedule from the reference client, mines some non-standard transactions, and other things helpful to the network as a whole that most other pools don't care to put any effort towards which have nothing to do with miner profits.

I figured as much, which is why I pointed it out.

Maybe kano wasn't intentionally lying, but rather was relying on the misinformation which is documented on the website.


I have to say that I've never heard of the term "begger transactions". If all miners cared about was maximizing short-term profits, we'd probably have mostly empty blocks, since every time you include a transaction you increase the probability of your block being orphaned, and transaction fees are tiny compared to total block reward.

What wizkid057 said.

But one point he made, more explicitly:
The empty blocks found would not have been a "useful" solved block in any case.
They would have been stale shares.

Whether the pool sends an empty block or not, the miner should always begin working on the non-empty block as soon as it its data is received.


... oh, I already said that:

Every block provides security for the bitcoin network, one of the main purposes of mining.  It buries the previous blocks under another block making it that much more difficult for a malicious miner to revert the chain (hence the 6 confirmation general rule).

The "empty" block is worth just as much to the network as any other block.  It would be better for the block to be found, add that security, than to waste miner's resources spinning their wheels on stale work.

The whole "empty block" nonsense is just nonsense.  It happens pretty rarely (less than 1% of our blocks) and when it does I'm sure the miners appreciate having been able to solve a fast block rather than a stale, and users of the bitcoin network appreciate their transactions gaining an additional confirmation.

It's worth pointing out that this is not something unique to Eligius, either.

Why would you prioritize stale share rate over publishing a useful solved block?  I fail to see how pushing an empty block through provides any worth to the Bitcoin network.

If the purpose of having blocks is to record transactions, and the purpose of having a blockchain is to have a record of those transaction, why send an empty block?  What purpose does it serve?  What benefit to the network does it provide?  Why does the solver deserve 25BTC for an empty block?  Does this have a false impact on difficulty adjustment since the block is solved so quickly, yet has no value (other than to the solver)?

kano has been trolling Eligius forever now.  It's been going on for *years* and quite frankly is a bit ridiculous considering he goes out of his way to spread nonsense that has no basis in reality.  I've tried in the past to find some sort of common ground with him in the past to try to figure out what his purpose behind all of his anti-Eligius garbage has been, but to no avail.  So, I've found it best to simply ignore his nonsense.

Anyway, trolling aside, I've finally been able to gather up some resources for some well needed upgrades to Eligius's backend infrastructure.  Over the next month I'll be transitioning Eligius over to a new set of servers.  Mostly this won't change much on the mining side of things, but the front end (stats, website, etc) will be getting the backend horsepower it needs for some well needed improvements.

I want to make sure everyone knows that I am actively maintaining Eligius and I'm going to continue to do so as long as people continue to use the service.  I still feel like this is a service that is needed for Bitcoin mining to survive as a whole.  I don't see any alternatives really comparing to a zero fee community supported pool.  The fully public stats and APIs here give information beyond what any other pool does, and these will continue to improve as the server capacity to do so is added.

All that said, I hope everyone here will continue to support Eligius and it's goal of keeping a free, no registration pool available for everyone.  If you have any questions/issues/etc I do my best to respond to everyone.  Here, on IRC, support tickets, etc. 

Thanks

-wk

That's (very) obsolete information, and even then says it applies to transactions without a fee - ie, begger transactions.
I'll see about figuring out who/how to update the page. The FAQ under it appears to be up to date.

"Transactions without a fee will be processed based on confidential anti-spam testing." http://eligius.st/~gateway/faq-page/faq-5

I'd recommend ignoring kano, since so much of what he says is a lie.

Eligius is one of many responsible miners which have improved script matching to filter out spam/DDoS attacks against the Bitcoin blockchain.
Blacklisting is "punishing or boycotting a list of persons who are disapproved of". Eligius does not do that.
The spam filtering only matches the known spam scripts and not the person(s) responsible for the spam.
Bitcoin Core has similar, but less updated, pattern matching enabled by default for a long time - since Satoshi's maintainership (0.3.x).
Since the advanced patterns mostly match by coincidence and can be easily changed by spammers on a whim, these patterns are not appropriate for a reference codebase, which is the primary goal of the Bitcoin Core project.
Miners are expected to set their own policies anyway, and not rely on the defaults.

Also note the patterns only match spam, and are not in any way related to gambling.
There are many gambling websites which do not perform attacks on Bitcoin.

This one is a simple lie.
The codebase used for Eligius's policy is in my public git repository, and documented on the website.

Yes, at one point Eligius had an interface for MtGox to prioritise their transactions in exchange for hosting and a link at the bottom of MtGox's website.

This just shows his ignorance.
Empty blocks minimise your stale shares.
Eligius (and probably most cluefully operated pools) send them as soon as a new block is found, so that you can begin mining immediately.
This is also followed up with an updated block full of transactions that miners can begin working on as soon as they receive it.
If your internet connection is 10 Gbps, the empty block might waste a few bytes of bandwidth and you'll get the full block immediately to begin working on.
If your internet connection isn't so fast, you'll begin working on the empty block, then transition to the full one as soon as you finish receiving it.
Of course, this is assuming you're using optimised software like BFGMiner. It's quite possible kano's cgminer is buggy in this regard and will mine empty blocks even after it receives the full one - I don't know, not my concern.

I guess he likes to use FUD to promote his pools, since he can't find any logical/real benefit...

Probably should edit the title of this post too: "105% PPS NMC"

Or am I mistaken about what the 105% refers to?

Is any of this true?

Bad luck again... so let's all sit in a circle and speak out the words again....

this does not explain why the unpaid balance did not change or almost did not change in the last 24 hr (everything shown as hashing in shares, but balance does not adjust)
Queue does not adjust as well. I don't mind submitting a ticket, but where?

One thing is a fact- I have not been paid for more than a week on a machine that produces ~0.045 BTC a day
How is the payment order being determined exactly as i am being paid more frequently on a slower account.

Your balance can never decrease (except via payouts).  Your *estimated* balance can drop significantly if you stop mining/slow mining during an unlucky period as other miners bury your shares further into the share log without you adding more of your own.

If this doesn't answer your question, open a ticket.

Seriously, what is wrong with the eligius payout?
My chart balance actually decreased (by a lofty 0.3 BTC) early on May 14 and since then calculator shows only ~60-63% of theoretical value accrued (and even these are frozen since at least yesterday).
What exactly is happening?