Topic: Email from Avalon - page 3. (Read 6063 times)
So you wouldn't consider the slick rackmountability, total adjustability, integrated server PSUs, spiffy UI and everything else Spondoolies did (and charged a premium for, then sold truckloads of) that Bitmain doesn't to be "frills"? Please, define "frills".
The simple fact is you get what you pay for
And as mining history has shown us, people aren't willing to pay a price premium for frills when there is raw hashpower available elsewhere cheaper.Except for everything Spondoolies ever sold.
The SP10 won by efficiency and density, not by frills. The SP3Xs won by preorders, not by frills. The SP20s 'won' by being sold at a huge loss, while also not being very good.
The simple fact is you get what you pay for
And as mining history has shown us, people aren't willing to pay a price premium for frills when there is raw hashpower available elsewhere cheaper.Except for everything Spondoolies ever sold.
The simple fact is you get what you pay for
And as mining history has shown us, people aren't willing to pay a price premium for frills when there is raw hashpower available elsewhere cheaper.move on trying to bait someone else
Can you have an adult discussion for once, please.or get back to loansharking.
Sloopy,
Thanks for your post, very well written and makes perfect sense.
Thanks for your post, very well written and makes perfect sense.
Thanks. I appreciate the kind words.
Re-reading it in the light of day there was one main point I wanted to make in this thread which I did not.
Is it just me? (and it wouldn't be the first time), but seriously is it just me who looks back on the way the Avalon 6 versus S7 pricing structure and MOQ were lined up seemed to coexist well?
Similar to how AT&T and COX / Time Warner may coexist and both do extremely well?
Maybe I missed it, but I purchased an A6 much later than others and paid well over what the S7 cost. I did this knowingly. The same way I pay my bill for Internet and Cable TV every month. (Never watch the cable TV)
I wonder who gets the credit for those things aligning so perfectly?
Bitmain maintained the lower price. Many times to the point it was not a good decision to do anything else. *IF* you had reasonable confidence the hash boards or the entire unit wouldn't need to go back. So a gamble on top of your BTC mining / price gamble, just add that layer on top.
I do not mean to snub either company. Good Business decisions. Actually, so smooth it is almost a concerted effort to maximize profit and keep the price at $750 - $1100 for a long time between November / December and March / April.
Regarding making them in CN and shipping them in bulk they are still doing that today, they just do it through Yoshi. Very little difference. I am talking about a true extension where there is true assembly. That seems to be the only way to have every single part available in a next day air fashion.
Does anyone have any numbers showing where what percentage of miners are sold to which countries? Obviously China is #1.
These "niceties" are what make a huge difference in many people's purchasing decision come true competition, and why so many people support the community miner project. These "niceties" are what will separate people who have a job and people replaced with automation or they have no market share in the decades of Industry to come. China is growing in the middle class, and they will demand higher wages, there will be a change there. It may be 20 years, but it has already started.
The simple fact is you get what you pay for and I can show plenty of people who have parts made all over the world but assemble and test the product in the US (or their home country). Are there shitty companies in the US? Sure. Does it take weeks to get a replacement part? Not if they want to sell another item and shitty companies do not stay in business unless they are monopolies or government funded.
They may "enjoy" two day shipping of new units to some places, but who has been getting their unit repaired, who has been getting a fan replaced in a reasonable time? Who has received a hash board in two days? HUGE difference.
Do you understand now dog? If not, just forget it and move on trying to bait someone else or get back to loansharking.
I still haven't wrapped my head around why Bitmain has not set up a true factory leg in the US including assembly.
For the same reason Spondoolies couldn't compete on price, its just too expensive. If they wanted a US facility they'd continue what they had before and make them in CN then ship them over in bulk.What a jump it would give them to have a US team able to support and sell here. I understand they would lose some profit margin due to labor, but I firmly believe that it would be made back quickly with volume AND they could offer next day air service for people who want to pay it.
They already enjoy 2 day air shipping to most of the world and would need a farm in the US (expensive), so without a significant bump in price to pay for these niceties its never going to happen. 
Sloopy,
Thanks for your post, very well written and makes perfect sense.
Thanks for your post, very well written and makes perfect sense.
but don't they need permission to do that stuff in china i hear it's bitch to tour there all the bs they put you thu for a visa etc and then you just can't go any place you want to, so i wouldn't put past them being controlled by gov .Ive often wonder how much the gov is in control
It doesn't take much to get a visa, and even then you can for the most part go wherever you'd like within reason as long as you adhere to the visa terms, basically the length of stay and number of entries into the country.To get a visa you usually just need a reason to go, having a ticket or a tour is usually a good enough reason for one to be issued, but there are companies that you can pay and they will arrange all the paperwork for other types of visa's with less restrictions (ie more entries)
Let me tell you, its far, far, far more difficult to get a US visa (for anything other than tourism) than it is for China.
I ended up not needing one and did not go there. But when looking China had one that offered 10 years. So you can also get a pretty good length of time if you had proper reason. I was surprised personal they offered one for such a long period of time.
but don't they need permission to do that stuff in china i hear it's bitch to tour there all the bs they put you thu for a visa etc and then you just can't go any place you want to, so i wouldn't put past them being controlled by gov .Ive often wonder how much the gov is in control
It doesn't take much to get a visa, and even then you can for the most part go wherever you'd like within reason as long as you adhere to the visa terms, basically the length of stay and number of entries into the country.To get a visa you usually just need a reason to go, having a ticket or a tour is usually a good enough reason for one to be issued, but there are companies that you can pay and they will arrange all the paperwork for other types of visa's with less restrictions (ie more entries)
Let me tell you, its far, far, far more difficult to get a US visa (for anything other than tourism) than it is for China.
but don't they need permission to do that stuff in china i hear it's bitch to tour there all the bs they put you thu for a visa etc and then you just can't go any place you want to, so i wouldn't put past them being controlled by gov .Ive often wonder how much the gov is in control
It doesn't take much to get a visa, and even then you can for the most part go wherever you'd like within reason as long as you adhere to the visa terms, basically the length of stay and number of entries into the country.To get a visa you usually just need a reason to go, having a ticket or a tour is usually a good enough reason for one to be issued, but there are companies that you can pay and they will arrange all the paperwork for other types of visa's with less restrictions (ie more entries)
Let me tell you, its far, far, far more difficult to get a US visa (for anything other than tourism) than it is for China.
but don't they need permission to do that stuff in china i hear it's bitch to tour there all the bs they put you thu for a visa etc and then you just can't go any place you want to, so i wouldn't put past them being controlled by gov .Ive often wonder how much the gov is in control
It doesn't take much to get a visa, and even then you can for the most part go wherever you'd like within reason as long as you adhere to the visa terms, basically the length of stay and number of entries into the country.To get a visa you usually just need a reason to go, having a ticket or a tour is usually a good enough reason for one to be issued, but there are companies that you can pay and they will arrange all the paperwork for other types of visa's with less restrictions (ie more entries)
but don't they need permission to do that stuff in china i hear it's bitch to tour there all the bs they put you thu for a visa etc and then you just can't go any place you want to, so i wouldn't put past them being controlled by gov .Ive often wonder how much the gov is in control
On the other side of the coin.
I grew up in New York City.
I knew of people that owned entire City blocks of Queens and Brooklyn all via a handshake.
All government documents did not mention the handshake owners.
So the real power for asic can be in spots no one would really know,unless of course they are the actual holder of the real power.
If Putin sent someone to talk things over with bitfury and wanted an off the record deal with them it would happen.
If Bush/Cheney wanted a off the record deal in the USA with some company it would happen.
If the leader of China anted an off the record deal in China with some company it would happen.
Ghost ops flow in both directions . So the real power is hidden.
But on the surface our game looks like asic builders.
So I would prefer someone figuring out how to program a gpu to whale at silly good numbers mining BTC as I rather use gear from real companies.
I don't like alt coins but I see what eth coin does and I can see that a good gpu coin could always exist.
The eth coin market cap is about 700 million the btc market cap is about 6300 million.
Does not take much to see a fundamental issue for asic builders vs gpu builders.
Asic builders attitude to buyers is pretty much fuck you show me the money.
Gpu builders give service and warranties that are real. Just a little tip and btc could slide while eth coin jumps.
The security issue is pretty much equal.
We never had an alt coin go to numbers like .1 btc per coin the ½ ing could do this or not.
I Will be watching and waiting for gear from avalon. I also tell them sell us chips believe it or not it is a safer way to earn money for your company.
but don't they need permission to do that stuff in china i hear it's bitch to tour there all the bs they put you thu for a visa etc and then you just can't go any place you want to, so i wouldn't put past them being controlled by gov .Ive often wonder how much the gov is in control
Good point for all we know bitmaintech could be 100% controlled by Chinese government or investors.
Well... I do and that's not as true. They raised they money day 1 and it was a reasonable amount of money, and then make the majority of their 'resources' from trading.
Basically the asic builders have a lot of leverage over the game.
That's actually an interesting concept - we actually don't know what control they have over their own company. Consider BTCS' string pulling over Spondoolies and that we only know about it in detail because BTCS is a public company. Bitfury similarly has significant VC investment and its likely that that investment comes with control.
We don't know if the V's actually get to decide to release a generation or not and its not unreasonable to consider that the investors may usurp giving away their very expensive chip for little.
Good point for all we know bitmaintech could be 100% controlled by Chinese government or investors.
So while it looks like asic builders are doing their thing so to speak it is not really the case.
Basically the asic builders have a lot of leverage over the game.
That's actually an interesting concept - we actually don't know what control they have over their own company. Consider BTCS' string pulling over Spondoolies and that we only know about it in detail because BTCS is a public company. Bitfury similarly has significant VC investment and its likely that that investment comes with control.
We don't know if the V's actually get to decide to release a generation or not and its not unreasonable to consider that the investors may usurp giving away their very expensive chip for little.
...
16nm chips over the next months.
working on a 16 nm chip !!! ....
16nm chips over the next months.
working on a 16 nm chip !!! ....
*yawn* Nothing interesting to see here. Bitfury had an announcement like this from December and they don't have them in mass production. *yawn*
Sure, but Avalon have an actual history of delivering their products to consumers. While Bitfury has a history of taking pre-orders, only to refund you and build their own farms instead.
They did that to me and quite a few others.
Basically the asic builders have a lot of leverage over the game.
...
16nm chips over the next months.
working on a 16 nm chip !!! ....
16nm chips over the next months.
working on a 16 nm chip !!! ....
*yawn* Nothing interesting to see here. Bitfury had an announcement like this from December and they don't have them in mass production. *yawn*
Sure, but Avalon have an actual history of delivering their products to consumers. While Bitfury has a history of taking pre-orders, only to refund you and build their own farms instead.
Just haven't had a lot of news to update really and I don't want to post just to post. On a side note I am in contact with the Bitfury ASIC supplier weekly and as of last Monday chips were still a no go
Really glad to hear from you again! Also glad that mining is still in the cards for you (sans Avalon).Very glad you are still pursuing the ephemeral BitFury chips. Also for reasons I've previously expressed about TSMC and 16nm chip production, not surprised on the lack of movement. But - we should be getting close.
It is good to hear a Update and original story to. Thanks for posting. I think getting chips is going to be hard no matter what at this point. Unless someone gets them like LKETC that has a history of unloading tons of chips to others, I think most keep pretty internal. For better or worse.
Still wish you best of luck though as a community miner sounds very cool idea. But I imagine it's quite the uphill battle to get chips in current market.
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