Entitlement Mentality - page 7. | Bitcointalksearch.org

J603

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Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:26:19 PM

Glad you asked. http://blogs.wsj.com/independentstreet/2009/01/28/in-n-out-burger-vs-mcdonalds-guess-who-won/

https://www.google.com/search?q=in-n-out&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hF0KUuHbI-G2igK6wYCQDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1144&bih=1006

A cheeseburger, fries and soda costs just over $5. Starting pay is $11. They're serving more customers at 3:30 in the afternoon than most fast food restaurants are serving at 12:20 in the afternoon. At lunchtime, I will count about fourteen employees working in an In-n-Out.

They never freeze any ingredients. They have no microwaves or freezers or heatlamps. Potatoes are sliced from whole potatoes at each store. They have the freshest fast food you'll ever eat.

So In-N-Out may be higher quality but it's certainly no cheaper. McDonald's is 3.00 plus tax for the stuff you mentioned. The McDonald's I live near gives out the small cups for free, so I pay $2.00 for a McDouble and fries. I think that all McDonald's are obligated to give you a cup of "water" (which you can fill with anything) for free.

Besides, I think that I said in my original post, that if such a company existed they were not nearly as efficient. McDonald's, BK, and Wendy's are all much more popular than In-N-Out, so arguably In-N-Out is not nearly as efficient.

the joint

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Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:58:02 PM

Quote from: the joint on August 13, 2013, 12:54:16 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:48:55 PM

Quote from: the joint on August 13, 2013, 12:46:03 PM

Your efficiency argument is inefficient.

Ridiculous. In the real world, my argument demonstrated the invalidity of J603's claim.

I suggest you get back to what you're good at: whining about people making claims about you that you don't agree with.

Your argument is flawed because it implies a limit to efficiency as a result of merely having human employees that need to be paid. Why aren't you condemning fast food restaurants for not automating everything? Better food, served faster, with fewer mistakes. And best of all, super low labor costs! Then you can lower the food prices to beat all competitors, including In 'N Out. Sounds like a better restaurant to me.

We'll know it's a better restaurant when we see it, experience their service and atmosphere, and taste their food. Until then...

Hey, now you're getting it! Now just apply that same statement to McDonald's...

Rassah

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I'm pretty sure you can get a cheeseburger, fries, and a coke for about $3, to $4 at McDonald's. Most of those items are a dollar each there.

FirstAscent, you keep saying "descent wage," or "actual work," or "most of your time." Personally, I also believe that everyone should have a great income, and work in very nice jobs, and be very efficient with their time. But that says pretty much absolutely nothing. So, can you be more specific? Give us a formula that would determine how much someone should get paid based on the type of work they do, the amount of time it takes up, and what you consider to be decent wage. Then please explain why someone shouldn't be allowed to work for less than that wage if they need the job more than whoever is holding it now.

tinus42

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Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:41:45 PM

In-n-Out has really good food and people know it. Hence, when an In-n-Out opens in a new area that has been deprived of their food, they wait in line. See pictures: https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=in-n-out+lines&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50500085,d.cGE,pv.xjs.s.en_US.ciY8R2R6XC8.O&biw=1144&bih=1006&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=emAKUoDpN-WSyAG_goHwDQ

1. In-n-Out pays more.
2. Their food is all fresh.
3. Lunch at In-n-Out costs less.
4. Their food tastes better than McDonalds
5. The restaurants are packed.

Conclusion: bad food and too many locations with limited revenue is considered to be a viable business because they're allowed to pay their employees too little.

Solution: Make a good menu that actually tastes good, and pack more customers into a single store, and you have more money to pay employees and still serve excellent food at a competitive (or better) price.

In-n-Out employs about the same number of people per burger sale, but doesn't waste money on real estate or opening stores which can't create crowds.

But-but-but that means they can out-compete them. McDonalds should lobby the government to stifle In-n-Out's business model so McDonalds can trump them all in the name of "free market capitalism". Roll Eyes

FirstAscent

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Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: the joint on August 13, 2013, 12:54:16 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:48:55 PM

Quote from: the joint on August 13, 2013, 12:46:03 PM

Your efficiency argument is inefficient.

Ridiculous. In the real world, my argument demonstrated the invalidity of J603's claim.

I suggest you get back to what you're good at: whining about people making claims about you that you don't agree with.

Your argument is flawed because it implies a limit to efficiency as a result of merely having human employees that need to be paid. Why aren't you condemning fast food restaurants for not automating everything? Better food, served faster, with fewer mistakes. And best of all, super low labor costs! Then you can lower the food prices to beat all competitors, including In 'N Out. Sounds like a better restaurant to me.

We'll know it's a better restaurant when we see it, experience their service and atmosphere, and taste their food. Until then...

the joint

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1020

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:48:55 PM

Quote from: the joint on August 13, 2013, 12:46:03 PM

Your efficiency argument is inefficient.

Ridiculous. In the real world, my argument demonstrated the invalidity of J603's claim.

I suggest you get back to what you're good at: whining about people making claims about you that you don't agree with.

Your argument is flawed because it implies a limit to efficiency as a result of merely having human employees that need to be paid. Why aren't you condemning fast food restaurants for not automating everything? Better food, served faster, with fewer mistakes. And best of all, super low labor costs! Then you can lower the food prices to beat all competitors, including In 'N Out. Sounds like a better restaurant to me.

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: the joint on August 13, 2013, 12:46:03 PM

Your efficiency argument is inefficient.

Ridiculous. In the real world, my argument demonstrated the invalidity of J603's claim.

I suggest you get back to what you're good at: whining about people making claims about you that you don't agree with.

the joint

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1020

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 13, 2013, 12:26:19 PM

Quote from: J603 on August 13, 2013, 11:38:49 AM

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 08, 2013, 12:15:19 PM

Once again, the poster boy for those who don't listen speaks.

1. If you're just plain bad and slow at your job, nobody is advocating any type of wage. But if you do your job well at, say fast food, for 40 hours a week, you deserve a decent wage. Such a job may not require a degree, but that doesn't mean it isn't work.

2. As for your arguments about raising the cost of burgers, that's dependent on how the business is structured, and there are businesses which pay a decent wage, make better burgers than the competition, and charge less. If you can't compete with those businesses, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

1. Why does working 40 hours a week mean you get a good wage? McDonald's work is easy. It doesn't require a degree because a monkey could do most fast food jobs. Apparently monkeys can even work in higher class restaurants.

Because 40 hours a week (plus getting ready for work and commuting to work) consumes most of your time. Pretty simple.

Quote

2. What fast food place is cheaper than McDonald's but higher quality, while paying more than any other place? Obviously no place exists, or McDonald's would not be such a dominant force in fast food. Even if this place did exist, they have a very inefficient business model.

Glad you asked. http://blogs.wsj.com/independentstreet/2009/01/28/in-n-out-burger-vs-mcdonalds-guess-who-won/

https://www.google.com/search?q=in-n-out&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hF0KUuHbI-G2igK6wYCQDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1144&bih=1006

A cheeseburger, fries and soda costs just over $5. Starting pay is $11. They're serving more customers at 3:30 in the afternoon than most fast food restaurants are serving at 12:20 in the afternoon. At lunchtime, I will count about fourteen employees working in an In-n-Out.

They never freeze any ingredients. They have no microwaves or freezers or heatlamps. Potatoes are sliced from whole potatoes at each store. They have the freshest fast food you'll ever eat.

Why not just make everything automated? Wouldn't that be the most efficient? You know, if a business really wanted to be as efficient as possible they'd just have machines serving the food faster, fresher, and better than the employees ever could. Oh, but wait, then you wouldn't really need the employees...

So maybe we should just set limits on how efficient a company can be to ensure that there will always be employees around to be paid and to take away from company efficiency.

Your efficiency argument is inefficient.

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

In-n-Out has really good food and people know it. Hence, when an In-n-Out opens in a new area that has been deprived of their food, they wait in line. See pictures: https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=in-n-out+lines&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50500085,d.cGE,pv.xjs.s.en_US.ciY8R2R6XC8.O&biw=1144&bih=1006&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=emAKUoDpN-WSyAG_goHwDQ

1. In-n-Out pays more.
2. Their food is all fresh.
3. Lunch at In-n-Out costs less.
4. Their food tastes better than McDonalds
5. The restaurants are packed.

Conclusion: bad food and too many locations with limited revenue is considered to be a viable business because they're allowed to pay their employees too little.

Solution: Make a good menu that actually tastes good, and pack more customers into a single store, and you have more money to pay employees and still serve excellent food at a competitive (or better) price.

In-n-Out employs about the same number of people per burger sale, but doesn't waste money on real estate or opening stores which can't create crowds.

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Compare prices:

http://m.wsj.net/video/20120913/091312lunchmcdonalds/091312lunchmcdonalds_512x288.jpg

http://codinghorror.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a85dcdae970b0120a86d9487970b-pi

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: J603 on August 13, 2013, 11:38:49 AM

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 08, 2013, 12:15:19 PM

Once again, the poster boy for those who don't listen speaks.

1. If you're just plain bad and slow at your job, nobody is advocating any type of wage. But if you do your job well at, say fast food, for 40 hours a week, you deserve a decent wage. Such a job may not require a degree, but that doesn't mean it isn't work.

2. As for your arguments about raising the cost of burgers, that's dependent on how the business is structured, and there are businesses which pay a decent wage, make better burgers than the competition, and charge less. If you can't compete with those businesses, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

1. Why does working 40 hours a week mean you get a good wage? McDonald's work is easy. It doesn't require a degree because a monkey could do most fast food jobs. Apparently monkeys can even work in higher class restaurants.

Because 40 hours a week (plus getting ready for work and commuting to work) consumes most of your time. Pretty simple.

Quote

2. What fast food place is cheaper than McDonald's but higher quality, while paying more than any other place? Obviously no place exists, or McDonald's would not be such a dominant force in fast food. Even if this place did exist, they have a very inefficient business model.

Glad you asked. http://blogs.wsj.com/independentstreet/2009/01/28/in-n-out-burger-vs-mcdonalds-guess-who-won/

https://www.google.com/search?q=in-n-out&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hF0KUuHbI-G2igK6wYCQDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1144&bih=1006

A cheeseburger, fries and soda costs just over $5. Starting pay is $11. They're serving more customers at 3:30 in the afternoon than most fast food restaurants are serving at 12:20 in the afternoon. At lunchtime, I will count about fourteen employees working in an In-n-Out.

They never freeze any ingredients. They have no microwaves or freezers or heatlamps. Potatoes are sliced from whole potatoes at each store. They have the freshest fast food you'll ever eat.

J603

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: FirstAscent on August 08, 2013, 12:15:19 PM

Once again, the poster boy for those who don't listen speaks.

1. If you're just plain bad and slow at your job, nobody is advocating any type of wage. But if you do your job well at, say fast food, for 40 hours a week, you deserve a decent wage. Such a job may not require a degree, but that doesn't mean it isn't work.

2. As for your arguments about raising the cost of burgers, that's dependent on how the business is structured, and there are businesses which pay a decent wage, make better burgers than the competition, and charge less. If you can't compete with those businesses, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

1. Why does working 40 hours a week mean you get a good wage? McDonald's work is easy. It doesn't require a degree because a monkey could do most fast food jobs. Apparently monkeys can even work in higher class restaurants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7654267.stm

2. What fast food place is cheaper than McDonald's but higher quality, while paying more than any other place? Obviously no place exists, or McDonald's would not be such a dominant force in fast food. Even if this place did exist, they have a very inefficient business model.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: tinus42 on August 13, 2013, 07:53:35 AM

Quote from: Rassah on August 09, 2013, 12:47:28 AM

Please stop advocating stealing money from poor old grandma. Unlike those teenagers at fast food restaurants, she is too old to work.

No she isn't:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-92-mcdonald-oldest-employee-article-1.1402335

That is not actually a good thing Sad

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: Rassah on August 09, 2013, 12:47:28 AM

Please stop advocating stealing money from poor old grandma. Unlike those teenagers at fast food restaurants, she is too old to work.

No she isn't:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-92-mcdonald-oldest-employee-article-1.1402335

Rassah

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Activity: 1680

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Ahem.. The problem with demanding a higher wage is that there will likely be someone else on the sidelines who will gladly take your job for a lower wage. Wages go up when number of people willing to do the job (or able to do it) goes down. McDonald's workers are paid what they are, because customers don't care who served them food, or whether the food is of a marginally better quality. McDonalds will seel whatever customers demand, for the cheapest price they can get away with.

I used to work for McDonakd's corp. Margins on burgers are indeed in the 5% range. Soft drinks, on the other hand, cost about $0.05 a cup, and are a major profit provider.

Regarding "Net income: 5464 million $," that's not some fat asshole in a top hat collecting all that money. McDonald's is a publicly owned company. If you increase employee's pay, and decrease McD's net income by a few million, what you will effectively do it take money away from those same McDonald's owner's retirement accounts, and from 401K retirement accounts of a lot of older folks. Please stop advocating stealing money from poor old grandma. Unlike those teenagers at fast food restaurants, she is too old to work.

Richy_T

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1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Quote from: Anon136 on August 08, 2013, 12:33:48 PM

Because you appear to be under the impression that it is relevant, and while it isn't relevant, the fact that it isn't relevant is relevant.

You've got to understand, if you work hard and do your job well, you get the living wage, if you're a crap worker, you get fired and get the living dole.

Now what's that incentive to work hard again?

Anon136

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BBazaar

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Anon136

legendary

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Richy_T

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1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Quote from: BBazaar on August 08, 2013, 11:50:52 AM

Won't be long until machines are able to replace many of the labors we do on a daily basis I read an article this week about artificially generated beef, grown through stem cells. So how far away are we from artificially grown beef, automated cooks and serving machines and a prerecorded voice taking your order at the drive thru? Should be a super fun argument when we start debating labor and fair living wages then.

Newsflash: This has happened before, over and again, in many other industries and we are all better off for it. I'm pretty glad I don't have to wait for the scribe to finish transcribing my copy of "Perl in a Nutshell".

Topic: Entitlement Mentality - page 7. (Read 11684 times)