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Topic: Entitlement Mentality - page 9. (Read 11684 times)

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
August 07, 2013, 02:37:26 PM
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

That's why I said this:
Quote
This is good for every PERSON, just not big corporations bottom line--which we all know to be the bane of our existence today.

William Binney said it best the other day I was listening to him talk: "We are no longer a country with a government, we are a government with a country."


How would earning less in real terms be good for any person?

If you think inflation is a good thing, you haven't been reading around this forum enough.

Forget inflation. Fast food personnel can get paid more without changing the price of fast food.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
August 07, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

If everyone in the States got bumped to $15 and I'm sitting at $35/hour, do you think I'm not going to ask for a raise as well? My skills are still just as valuable in relationship to the minimum wage.

Congratulations, you just became too expensive and your job has been sent overseas/your company went bust/You got bought out in an aggressive merger and everyone in the company got laid off.

Fast food service jobs aren't going overseas.

And how many times do I have to tell you that the fast food industry can trim the fat from other areas of their operation. And furthermore, as I've said, when the free lunch of cheap wages are gone, they'd actually have to create a desirable product, such as that of In-n-Out.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
August 07, 2013, 02:35:20 PM
#99
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

That's why I said this:
Quote
This is good for every PERSON, just not big corporations bottom line--which we all know to be the bane of our existence today.

William Binney said it best the other day I was listening to him talk: "We are no longer a country with a government, we are a government with a country."


How would earning less in real terms be good for any person?

If you think inflation is a good thing, you haven't been reading around this forum enough.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
August 07, 2013, 02:33:38 PM
#98
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 07, 2013, 02:33:25 PM
#97
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

That's why I said this:
Quote
This is good for every PERSON, just not big corporations bottom line--which we all know to be the bane of our existence today.

William Binney said it best the other day I was listening to him talk: "We are no longer a country with a government, we are a government with a country."
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
August 07, 2013, 02:31:10 PM
#96
I'm all for everyone making $15/hour baseline

Don't worry, your government is busy inflating the currency quickly enough that that will soon be worth less than what minimum wage is now (counts bitcoins).

If everyone in the States got bumped to $15 and I'm sitting at $35/hour, do you think I'm not going to ask for a raise as well? My skills are still just as valuable in relationship to the minimum wage.

Congratulations, you just became too expensive and your job has been sent overseas/your company went bust/You got bought out in an aggressive merger and everyone in the company got laid off.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
August 07, 2013, 02:23:34 PM
#95
Nowhere in this thread did I see anything about joining unions and paying dues becoming mandatory.

You failed to follow the flow of the thread.

And employees are not just asking for more money. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that in and of itself. I've done it myself and got it.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
August 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
#94
Hey, if slavery was allowed, but voluntary,

Voluntary slavery,  Roll Eyes

Sure, if contras were dictioned.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 07, 2013, 02:09:26 PM
#93
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 07, 2013, 01:46:53 PM
#92
...I gave up responding when the intended message of the OP was tortured beyond recognition.

So, you're seeing record profits and consistently low wages and joblessness?  Then, find another line of work or pray helplessly as you wait for your fate to be determined by the same employer that you detest.  

"Hey, you're a greedy asshole.  Can I have a raise?"

That's the root of your misunderstanding, OP -- strikers aren't praying to their employer, they're ... striking.  See the difference?
Greedy assholishness is neither here nor there. Smiley

Is the strikers' problem a rock or a clay problem?  A rock problem is one in which you have very little or no control over; a clay problem is one in which you can significantly manipulate the elements causing the problem.

If you have a rock problem and you're smart, you'll shift your attention to the things that you DO have control over.  Trying to effect change upon elements you cannot directly control will quickly lead to negative returns on the time and effort you've invested.  This loss of utility is reflective of the lack of insight of the strikers.

You offer a really odd dichotomy, i see it as neither rock nor clay, but rather people problem.  But, since i'm sure it will somehow aid your purpose, i'll follow through with your analogy.  You, i take it, consider striking "a rock problem"?  They've threatened to strike, their bluff was called, and now the rock is thrown & it's out of their hands, is that it?
In reality, of course, that's not the case.  The strike is not simply milling about & hoping for the best -- it is an active fulfillment of a threat.  The act that backs the threat, making it effective & giving it future credibility.  Each body, and boot on the picket line is necessary if the proles are to be taken seriously.  Each step is the melding of your frikn' clay. The strike is not an appeal to reason or the boss' sense of right & wrong -- it is a show of force.  "Do what we fuckin' tell you or suffer."  Like that.   Smiley

legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
August 07, 2013, 01:32:00 PM
#91
...I gave up responding when the intended message of the OP was tortured beyond recognition.

So, you're seeing record profits and consistently low wages and joblessness?  Then, find another line of work or pray helplessly as you wait for your fate to be determined by the same employer that you detest.  

"Hey, you're a greedy asshole.  Can I have a raise?"

That's the root of your misunderstanding, OP -- strikers aren't praying to their employer, they're ... striking.  See the difference?
Greedy assholishness is neither here nor there. Smiley

Is the strikers' problem a rock or a clay problem?  A rock problem is one in which you have very little or no control over; a clay problem is one in which you can significantly manipulate the elements causing the problem.

If you have a rock problem and you're smart, you'll shift your attention to the things that you DO have control over.  Trying to effect change upon elements you cannot directly control will quickly lead to negative returns on the time and effort you've invested.  This loss of utility is reflective of the lack of insight of the strikers.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501
August 07, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
#90
Meh, the thread is about dead. Do you know what a "closed shop" is? Do you know that striking is often legally protected? If the workers want to join together in collective bargaining, that's one thing. When it's mandated that you're part of that collective or you don't get a job or that employers aren't simply allowed to kick your ass to the curb if you refuse to work, that's quite another thing altogether.

Nowhere in this thread did I see anything about joining unions and paying dues becoming mandatory. It was simply "are workers suffering from entitlement mentality" by asking for raises when the employer would prefer not to. Of course employers will prefer not to provide raises, that's money directly out of their pockets. So, of course when a single employee asks, employers tend to act like you would purport to. Hence the use of collective action, especially in times like now. Should it be mandatory? Of course not. But I never thought that's what this topic was about.


Usually single employees have no bargaining power whatsoever by themselves. They may politely ask for a raise but when denied it is not wise to push the matter further if one desires to keep their job. The only exception being key personnel (like a talented sysadmin or a top footballer) who can't easily be missed. Collectively employees do have bargaining power. A company may easily sack one employees but not all employee because that would pose a serious problem for their operations.

This is how unions came into existance in the first place, in an era when employers could just say "I can get ten others instead of you." and getting sacked meant starvation. Of course unions later became politicized and abused their power but that's a different story.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 07, 2013, 01:09:14 PM
#89
...I gave up responding when the intended message of the OP was tortured beyond recognition.

So, you're seeing record profits and consistently low wages and joblessness?  Then, find another line of work or pray helplessly as you wait for your fate to be determined by the same employer that you detest.  

"Hey, you're a greedy asshole.  Can I have a raise?"

That's the root of your misunderstanding, OP -- strikers aren't praying to their employer, they're ... striking.  See the difference?
Greedy assholishness is neither here nor there. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
August 07, 2013, 12:14:06 PM
#88
eh well so long as they arnt trying to use the government to twist anyone's arms than i say more power to them.

If I had $7 an hour employees that went on strike, they would be $0 an hour non-employees immediately. That this isn't happening in this case is indicative of the government and arm twisting being in close proximity.

It's easy to say that without any context.

First, we are in a unique period of RECORD corporate profits coupled with high joblessness. That isn't normal. Normal has typically been high corporate profits coupled with increasing payouts to employees, who spend their money and stoke inflation. We're getting there, a coup,e more years and we might just be close to where we started

Second, if one employee protests for higher wages, yes, it's easy to dump them and move on. Especially when people are fighting over jobs. In other periods, it's even employers fighting over labor. It will b again, too. Its easy to put one employee out to pasture, much more difficult to put your entire workforce out and then rehire and retrain them. It'll be much more difficult to put them all out, hence the point of collective action

It's no more of an entitlement attitude for someone to expect better pay than it is for someone to expect another to work for them at only the cheapest rate possible. In a perfectly tuned capitalist system, both sides would have power and be able to make some demands and cede other to other demands at the same time. Right now, were in a flawed environment because employers have all the power. In the future, the pendulum will swing back. And if your that steadfast in not paying wages that employees eel ate livable, you may just find yourself with an empty shop.

Excellent post, and suddenly the detractors aren't responding.  I love the blatant idiocy displayed by "it's the free market" when a business owner does something, but suddenly when workers naturally self-assemble into unions, it's somehow communism or socialist sponsored oppressive regulation.

I gave up responding when the intended message of the OP was tortured beyond recognition.

So, you're seeing record profits and consistently low wages and joblessness?  Then, find another line of work or pray helplessly as you wait for your fate to be determined by the same employer that you detest.  

"Hey, you're a greedy asshole.  Can I have a raise?"

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
August 07, 2013, 12:07:21 PM
#87
Meh, the thread is about dead. Do you know what a "closed shop" is? Do you know that striking is often legally protected? If the workers want to join together in collective bargaining, that's one thing. When it's mandated that you're part of that collective or you don't get a job or that employers aren't simply allowed to kick your ass to the curb if you refuse to work, that's quite another thing altogether.

Nowhere in this thread did I see anything about joining unions and paying dues becoming mandatory. It was simply "are workers suffering from entitlement mentality" by asking for raises when the employer would prefer not to. Of course employers will prefer not to provide raises, that's money directly out of their pockets. So, of course when a single employee asks, employers tend to act like you would purport to. Hence the use of collective action, especially in times like now. Should it be mandatory? Of course not. But I never thought that's what this topic was about.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
August 07, 2013, 11:37:54 AM
#86
We would love to slant all, rather than most, of the laws in your favor.  Unfortunately, that raises the problem of tar, feathers and pointy pitchforks.  But we're working on it.

Love,
  The Government.

Contracts resulting from voluntary agreements are so tiresome...

Hey, if slavery was allowed, but voluntary, I'm certain plenty of businesses would be all over it, and they'd get workers, since the workers would be provided food and board. But we don't have slavery, do we? We have employment that pays you barely enough to pay for food and board.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
August 07, 2013, 11:26:27 AM
#85
We would love to slant all, rather than most, of the laws in your favor.  Unfortunately, that raises the problem of tar, feathers and pointy pitchforks.  But we're working on it.

Love,
  The Government.

Contracts resulting from voluntary agreements are so tiresome...
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 07, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
#84
Excellent post, and suddenly the detractors aren't responding.  I love the blatant idiocy displayed by "it's the free market" when a business owner does something, but suddenly when workers naturally self-assemble into unions, it's somehow communism or socialist sponsored oppressive regulation.

Meh, the thread is about dead. Do you know what a "closed shop" is? Do you know that striking is often legally protected? If the workers want to join together in collective bargaining, that's one thing. When it's mandated that you're part of that collective or you don't get a job or that employers aren't simply allowed to kick your ass to the curb if you refuse to work, that's quite another thing altogether.

We would love to slant all, rather than most, of the laws in your favor.  Unfortunately, that raises the problem of tar, feathers and pointy pitchforks.  But we're working on it.

Love,
  The Government.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
August 07, 2013, 10:41:45 AM
#83
Excellent post, and suddenly the detractors aren't responding.  I love the blatant idiocy displayed by "it's the free market" when a business owner does something, but suddenly when workers naturally self-assemble into unions, it's somehow communism or socialist sponsored oppressive regulation.

Meh, the thread is about dead. Do you know what a "closed shop" is? Do you know that striking is often legally protected? If the workers want to join together in collective bargaining, that's one thing. When it's mandated that you're part of that collective or you don't get a job or that employers aren't simply allowed to kick your ass to the curb if you refuse to work, that's quite another thing altogether.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 07, 2013, 06:58:12 AM
#82
In Chicago, IL fast food workers are striking, protesting and demanding $15/hr where the state minimum wage is $8.25/hr.

The average profit margin for a company is about 5-10% and these idiots want their salaries nearly doubled, arguing that they're not receiving a livable wage.

Um, no.  I'm getting a bit sick of this attitude of entitlement floating around the USA, and keep in mind I work in the field of social services.

When I graduated and began work as a counselor in the adult psychiatric unit of a Chicago hospital, I made $15/hr with a post-graduate degree and was sent to the emergency room twice for being assaulted on the job within a period of 6 months.

So, what did I do?  Did I bitch and complain and protest about my salary or my work conditions?  No.  Instead,  I updated and revised my résumé and began sending it directly to the email addresses of the hiring managers at a variety of agencies.  Within 2 months I secured a new job where I am under-qualified and overpaid, and I love my new job.  I'm proud of it, and proud of myself for doing what I needed to do to adapt and thrive.

Thoughts?

It's pretty scary when in a society where the majority decides how will our society look the majority is incredibly fat, stupid, childish and docile.
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