Topic: Esoteric Investments, LLC (up to 1% earnings) - page 18. (Read 18679 times)

Re-read what I wrote. In both the Shavers case and in Esoteric's, they were/are soliciting investments in bitcoin and bitcoin only. In Shavers case, courts determined that bitcoin can be used as money and the bitcoin denominated investments can be classified as securities under the SEC. Shavers purported business activity is largely irrelevant. If you do not understand what constitutes a security in the eyes of the SEC, please do your own research.

So the question again is, why does Esoteric think securities laws do not apply?

Esoteric isn't holding Fiat currency, or dealing in fiat transactions.  Bitcoin doesn't fall under this. that's what you keep missing about the shavers case. he was dealing in transactions with actual US dollars. Esoteric IS NOT. and the trading is occuring on exchanges not operated by Esoteric, albeit not applicable to them.

understand?

In the Shavers case, all transactions between investors and Shavers were solely in bitcoin. His supposed business was buying and selling bitcoins for USD, but these transactions did not involve investors. You should really review more about the Shavers case and why it is relevant to your "business".

A couple of excerpts from https://www.scribd.com/doc/158943320/SEC-v-Shavers-August-6:



So why do securities laws not apply to you?

You don't need a license to trade Bitcoin, correct. You do need a license if you do so with other peoples money. Seeking investments for an unregistered security is not something the SEC is a big fan of.

And that is completely ignoring the big question of whether the entire operation is actually doing what it claims to do. For which no evidence whatsoever has been presented.

Hey all

Wallet addresses are coming to verify funds are in fact there. The wallets that will be made public are for the profit reserves pool and account credits. The majority trading fund is kept in several wallets of our own and exchanges that we change periodically, so displaying those wallets would be a hassle, and we see as a possible liability to our trading strategies, and targets us for hackers more and more as the pool will grow. So the trading pool itself will not be view-able from the blockchain. But with some mathematics you could tell the size of it we are just keeping all aspects of that fund as much off the internet as possible.

Trading Bitcoin is property for the securities and exchange commission. As when you exchange the coin you exchange it for the coin, not a security that says you own the coin, I actually have it in my wallet to use for purchases or to sell it for something else. Crypto currency is like trading cards you wouldn't need a license to trade a babe ruth rookie card for 1000 crappy cards of no name players regardless if the babe ruth card was yours or a trading card exchange client.

Shavers bought and sold bitcoin for USD which requires money transmitter regulations, and he knowingly ran a ponzi scheme. We do not trade any investor funds for USD only profits that are taken off the top for our cut to pay ourselves and expenses for the company of which some still remains in bitcoin since, we like Bitcoin. Also as we're not knowingly running a ponzi scheme we do not really need to worry about Shavers.

Update on company contact information.

The owner Dan Pace's contact number:

732-903-8379 (google voice)

You will be able to verify on the blockchain your unused funds in the account. The BTC that you deposit in which you buy the shares with will be transferred to the exchanges' wallet to do the trading. I will follow up with Glenn and Dan as to them providing the exchanges' wallet address with our funds.

However you must also realize that Eso will be working with a lump sum of bitcoins stored in the company's shares when they do trading. So even when you see the wallet transactions from the exchange, it will be a large transfer of all the bitcoins being used, not every specific amount of bitcoin each investor funded.   

What could be done however is to show the transactions of bitcoins from the investor's wallet to the exchanges and back.

I smell high sock puppet activity in this thread. Digicoinz just registered one month ago to push that shit.

I have no problem spending a little time and calling out ponzis. The people who promote them are perpetuating fraud, I'd rather not see that happen.

Strawman more please. While I firmly believe this is a ponzi, that was not my original statement.


See the below quote for further explanation.

Are you looking out for #2? do you honestly care about what happens in the end?

Why are you here? to make money or waste time watching others make it?

Regarding the investment its 90 days. You quoted me to quick.

Q. How long is a Trading Pool Share term?
A. Trading Pool Shares last for a term of 90 days.

You can cashout everyday! why 120? and where did you get that arbitrary number from?

Seriously, why you Bitchin about being able to make money? It's a doggy dog world out there, ppl do what they gotta do sometimes to make a buck.

The fact you're even on this forum, is assumable that you use any method to make some extra cash.

so stop calling the kettle black

 "Shavers also diverted investors’ Bitcoin for day trading in his account on a Bitcoin currency exchange, and exchanged investors’ Bitcoin for U.S. dollars to pay his personal expenses."

That's where sec comes in. Eso isn't doing this. furthermore, shavers was lying about his business operations. And at this point in time, Eso hasn't given us any reason to even speculate this.

Just a fool will believe their hacker story.
- They still posted results after they got hacked
- "We got hacked" is the new blind excuse
- They deleted user information
- They took of their webpage
- A lot of other arguments I'm sure you already read in the bitcoin-trader.biz thread.

Guys, be informed that Digicoinz and sunny1 pushes that shit for just one reason: They want to cash out after 120 days. This will happen with other investors money only. This is how a ponzi/HYIP works.

Trendon Shavers tried saying "Bitcoin is not money" to the SEC, but failed.

http://www.sec.gov/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.VEqG8_nF8bM
https://www.scribd.com/doc/158943320/SEC-v-Shavers-August-6

Because, there will be a wallet that will contain your btc (not in shares), the used btcs (bought shares) will be up on the wallets at the exchanges where the trading is happening.

How can they be using your funds to trade and make a profit if you can see the funds sitting there in a wallet?

The Court further found that, even as he publicly denied the Ponzi scheme on the Bitcoin Forum, Shavers knowingly and intentionally operated BTCST as a sham and a Ponzi scheme, and repeatedly made materially false and misleading representations to BTCST investors and potential investors concerning the use of their bitcoins, how he would generate the promised returns, and the safety of their investments.

source - http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2014/lr23090.htm

Please show me keyser where this has happened with Eso

^ This, the claim on their site is 100% inaccurate.