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Topic: ETC on Polo - page 5. (Read 7286 times)

legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1102
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
July 25, 2016, 03:51:27 PM
#72
Just increased your total market cap by $60MIL overnight because someone legally exploited a hole in the technology worth...about $60MIL? Now you have the attention of the SEC Ethereum.



Actually I would say that when it comes to government agencies in the United States FinCEN would be the lead agency on this issue. If one acts as an MSB by reversing transactions then it seems to me that MSB registration become a legal requirement. Let us not forget the initial distribution of Ethereum here also.

So if i buy some eth on polo right now i get ETC as well ?
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
July 25, 2016, 01:58:03 PM
#71
Just increased your total market cap by $60MIL overnight because someone legally exploited a hole in the technology worth...about $60MIL? Now you have the attention of the SEC Ethereum.



Actually I would say that when it comes to government agencies in the United States FinCEN would be the lead agency on this issue. If one acts as an MSB by reversing transactions then it seems to me that MSB registration become a legal requirement. Let us not forget the initial distribution of Ethereum here also.
hero member
Activity: 912
Merit: 1021
If you don’t believe, why are you here?
July 25, 2016, 01:53:25 PM
#70
Just increased your total market cap by $60MIL overnight because someone legally exploited a hole in the technology worth...about $60MIL? Now you have the attention of the SEC Ethereum.

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
July 25, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
#69
Sorry I missed the gist of your argument. Any one can hard fork. VB can, you can, I can, tokeweed can, even Donald Trump can.

The overwhelming majority of miners adopted the ETH chain. The ETC chain will eventually languish as a historical artifact. I hope crypto evolves better governance and we develop better processes for the maintenance and enhancement of p2p consensus systems.

I assume that you are not against forks in general because Monero was a fork.

Hard forks in general are not the issue here. In fact a hard fork can be considered a special case of proof of burn. What makes this particular hard fork different is the selectiveness. All the Ethereum holders were not eligible to participate in the proof of burn / hard fork, since all the Ether was not treated equally. In fact the very purpose of this hard fork was to change the ownership of funds. Monero has had several hard forks; however this kind selective of hard for would be virtually impossible to pull of in Monero because of Monero's design.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288
July 25, 2016, 01:28:26 PM
#68
What i noticed now on Polo is lots new users. that dont even know how to read charts. Probably plan to sell one ETH or both. Or are Steemians.

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014
ex uno plures
July 25, 2016, 01:22:16 PM
#67
Sorry I missed the gist of your argument. Any one can hard fork. VB can, you can, I can, tokeweed can, even Donald Trump can.

The overwhelming majority of miners adopted the ETH chain. The ETC chain will eventually languish as a historical artifact. I hope crypto evolves better governance and we develop better processes for the maintenance and enhancement of p2p consensus systems.

I assume that you are not against forks in general because Monero was a fork.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
July 25, 2016, 01:11:40 PM
#66
Again I say, if there's a person who caused a major uncertainty in the cryptocurrency scene, it is Buterin himself.  He was warned but yet he still went on, manipulated the Ethereum community and politically railroaded the hard fork to happen.

I'd like to hear you substantiate that accusation.



I for one agree with tokeweed on this. For better or for worse Buterin has shaken the crtpto currency scene to its very foundations going all the way back to the original Bitcoin whitepaper by forking Ethereum in order to effectively reverse transactions. I responded on this in another thread.

...

But it's not good for cryptocurrency as a whole.  It could (arguably) even hold Bitcoin back.  The uncertainty caused by Buterin could hurt us all as supporters whether you're a developer, researcher, entrepreneur or speculator.

I agree. This sets a precedent that reaches all the way back to: Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System by Satoshi Nakamoto https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf. To understand why I am quoting the introduction to the above paper:

Quote
1. Introduction

Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as trusted third parties to process electronic payments. While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model. Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes. The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need.

A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. These costs and payment uncertainties can be avoided in person by using physical currency, but no mechanism exists to make payments over a communications channel without a trusted party. What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third  party. Transactions that are computationally impractical to reverse would protect sellers from fraud, and routine escrow mechanisms could easily be implemented to protect buyers. In this paper, we propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer distributed timestamp server to generate computational proof of the chronological order of transactions. The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attacker nodes.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014
ex uno plures
July 25, 2016, 07:28:22 AM
#65
Again I say, if there's a person who caused a major uncertainty in the cryptocurrency scene, it is Buterin himself.  He was warned but yet he still went on, manipulated the Ethereum community and politically railroaded the hard fork to happen.

I'd like to hear you substantiate that accusation.

legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
July 24, 2016, 10:09:47 PM
#64
Why only 2 ?

I propose we fork ETC and call it ETX and get Polo to list it too.

~LOL~



Thanks to Vitalik Buterin, now every other developer could be thinking exactly this for whatever reason they themselves can cause and think of.  It's the reason some didn't like to go with the hard fork.  Vitalik Buterin's Forked Ethereum is a precedent of what might come.  If there's a person who caused an uncertainty in the cryptocurrency scene, it's him.

Well maybe. The problem of writing perfect, and verifiably perfect, software is very difficult. So all software needs some kind of change control mechanism to allow bug fixes, etc. In a crypto-coin, this mechanism is the hard fork.

You could argue, as many do, that hard forks are bad. But you could also argue that not forking has worse consequences. Imagine all the new bugs that will be found in ETC and ETH. If they never fork, they will eventually become useless except for speculation by traders.

What is really needed is a better governance model. One that can develop a generally accepted set of rules describing when a hard fork is acceptable, and when it is not. Then we can argue about the cases.

This model will probably evolve to look something like the IETF.


I'm not arguing anything of the sort in my reply.  A hard fork can be either good or bad.  It is the process on how the decision came to be is what's good or bad.  And the whole point is Buterin did this to himself.  There were some vocal people known in the community who were expressing themselves against the hard fork because it will set a precedent.  And in the way you reacted, joking or not, is proof that there are people thinking about hard forking again if they find it good, an easy out or convenient.

Again I say, if there's a person who caused a major uncertainty in the cryptocurrency scene, it is Buterin himself.  He was warned but yet he still went on, manipulated the Ethereum community and politically railroaded the hard fork to happen.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Bitcoin super-duper-mega-ultra-hyper-node
July 24, 2016, 09:26:09 PM
#63
I just sell all my ETH stake before the HF  Angry
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014
ex uno plures
July 24, 2016, 08:50:04 PM
#62
Why only 2 ?

I propose we fork ETC and call it ETX and get Polo to list it too.

~LOL~



Thanks to Vitalik Buterin, now every other developer could be thinking exactly this for whatever reason they themselves can cause and think of.  It's the reason some didn't like to go with the hard fork.  Vitalik Buterin's Forked Ethereum is a precedent of what might come.  If there's a person who caused an uncertainty in the cryptocurrency scene, it's him.

Well maybe. The problem of writing perfect, and verifiably perfect, software is very difficult. So all software needs some kind of change control mechanism to allow bug fixes, etc. In a crypto-coin, this mechanism is the hard fork.

You could argue, as many do, that hard forks are bad. But you could also argue that not forking has worse consequences. Imagine all the new bugs that will be found in ETC and ETH. If they never fork, they will eventually become useless except for speculation by traders.

What is really needed is a better governance model. One that can develop a generally accepted set of rules describing when a hard fork is acceptable, and when it is not. Then we can argue about the cases.

This model will probably evolve to look something like the IETF.
newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 250
July 24, 2016, 07:01:27 PM
#61
A fork already got listed, it removed the original coin and was called ETH, the original coin (ETC) is now coming back from the unsuccessful coup.

Why only 2 ?

I propose we fork ETC and call it ETX and get Polo to list it too.

~LOL~


legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
July 24, 2016, 07:13:33 PM
#61
Why only 2 ?

I propose we fork ETC and call it ETX and get Polo to list it too.

~LOL~



Thanks to Vitalik Buterin, now every other developer could be thinking exactly this for whatever reason they themselves can cause and think of.  It's the reason some didn't like to go with the hard fork.  Vitalik Buterin's Forked Ethereum is a precedent of what might come.  If there's a person who caused an uncertainty in the cryptocurrency scene, it's him.
legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
July 24, 2016, 07:12:00 PM
#60
I dunno how it works if your coins were in an exchange at the time of the forking. does that mean poloniex gives you the same amount of etc for free?

Yeah, they just popped up for free on your account.

And a great day for trading. The waves on ETC were crazy. Really wish I'd gone big at 30K sat though.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014
ex uno plures
July 24, 2016, 07:06:30 PM
#59
A fork already got listed, it removed the original coin and was called ETH, the original coin (ETC) is now coming back from the unsuccessful coup.

Why only 2 ?

I propose we fork ETC and call it ETX and get Polo to list it too.

~LOL~



In your dreams.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1014
ex uno plures
July 24, 2016, 06:59:26 PM
#58
Why only 2 ?

I propose we fork ETC and call it ETX and get Polo to list it too.

~LOL~

full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
July 24, 2016, 06:29:05 PM
#57




I almost spit out my drink when I saw that.  lol
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1245
July 24, 2016, 05:07:33 PM
#56

The Devs should just go back to the original fork and continue working on that. They may have no choice if the market sees the new chain as fake and the original as the one with integrity.

So what if a smart contract went tits up. It worked - it did what it was supposed to do which was to faithfully implement the logic imparted to it. Nobody should have blinked an eyelid.



one of them appearently will do just that :

Ethereum Core developer plans to support Ethereum Classic -
https://medium.com/@zsfelfoldi/a-tale-of-two-chains-3f6d58a9df4a#.4vchxki6m

newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 250
July 24, 2016, 04:22:53 PM
#55
Its ironic you say ETC suddenly is useless because it isn't blessed by your god (who some rumors say just stole the idea from some dude) when it has the same sketchy fundaments of ETH but the unparalleled backing of blockchain (no censorship), there is a kind precedent for these things look Bytecoin/Bitmonero/Monero (Monero also was attacked), may this become a warning for any attempt of Bitcoin hardforking in the future.


Minimum situation?  The two reach parity - one way or another.  After that it's anyone's guess what happens.

That is not the minimum situation, the minimum situation is the the ETC bubble has already popped and is on it's way down to zero.

Unless someone picks it up and runs with ETC, I don't see that it has any value.  ETH has value because people will build on it, the devs will be working on ETH. ETC is just for p&d.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
July 24, 2016, 04:51:09 PM
#55
i didn't understand ethereum to start with. i really really really don't understand it now. i think i'd need to spend a month in a log cabin with vitalik to start to get a handle on it but i guess he's got his hands full these days.
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