Topic: EU solution to energy crisis: print more money and ensure economic crisis! - page 3. (Read 846 times)

I didn't positively single out Russia, I excluded a country that has a lot of energy and doesn't need to import them compared to lots of others that do not have any energy of their own and have to buy it from elsewhere. In comparison the second group are facing a crisis (France is the latest European country that experienced blackout).

I've already debunked the claims about Iranian drones or missiles being used by Russia at least twice on this forum.

If you want to see blood on one's hand you need not look far. Look to your country in the 80's and how you guys were supporting Saddam, the Iraq's dictator who was bombing Iranian cities with chemical weapons. The 300,000 Iranians martyrs should be a source of shame for Ukraine.
Don't even get me started on the bloodshed by the armed forces of Ukraine in Iraq and Afghanistan and some other countries.

... to be honest - I don't care where you live, what your nationality, religion, sexual orientation and skin color are. Any inhabitant of the earth can carry nonsense, regardless of the criteria listed here
I especially like you, with what zeal and rapture, being in Iran, you tell me, a citizen of Ukraine living in Ukraine, what is happening to me 

And now about your "facts"

1. Measles. Yes, there was a flash. But !
The consequence of the outbreak is not a low level of medicine! Although I can’t say that Ukraine has the best medicine, it’s not bad at all, at least Iranian citizens go to Ukraine in large groups to study as doctors, yes, yes, your citizens study with us, and not vice versa. Tell me - where are the values, experience and practice better? But back to measles. One of the key reasons for this outbreak in 2019 is a consequence of the anti-vaccination movement. Yes, in the west of Ukraine, there was such a movement, and this is not a problem of 2019, it started earlier. The Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) acted as a special bearer of this ideology. It was they who became the "locomotive" of this murderous movement and began to drive into the heads of parishioners from about 2014. Yes, this is a known fact, you can find references.
But let's not forget about the indicators of "high mortality" from measles!
Note: In 2019, 72 people died of measles in Europe, 16 of them in Ukraine. It's a lot ?
We read the excerpt from the WHO "Measles death rates worldwide increased by 50% between 2016 and 2019, and in 2019 this disease claimed more than 207,500 lives." Worldwide. 207,500 against a total of 31 people in Ukraine (for this period). Will you tell something else about the low level of medicine in Ukraine?
PS The Iranian authorities acknowledged the death during the protests of more than 200 people. This is 9 times higher than the death rate from measles in Ukraine over 4 years...

2. Now to the mortality rates. It is very convenient to take out of context or a couple of numbers and wave them around. But it won't work
The mortality rate in Ukraine is certainly not the lowest. But there are nuances here. If you look at the official statistics of the UN. Then we will notice that:
until 2014 - the death rate was approximately 13.4, then after 2014 - it began to rise sharply. I hope you know what happened in 2014, and what are the real reasons for the increase in mortality?
Since 2015, the modernization of medicine in Ukraine has begun, which has already given a noticeable result....

3. "energy and heating crisis (except Russia)" - look how you, a resident of Iran, surprisingly positively single out Russia, which you seem to have nothing to do with! Anyway, let's go back again .. yes, yes - to the facts

Schools where children sit in warm outerwear during lessons, hospitals where patients are covered with mattresses for heating, the highest mortality from carbon monoxide, the eternal collection of firewood throughout the country for pensioners and the needy, fires due to home-made heaters and stalagmites from frozen feces poured into windows - these are picture from ordinary Russia of the 21st century! And for many years now! Perhaps you have only seen Moscow? Then I recommend driving 50 km from Moscow - you will learn a lot of new things

PS The fact that Iran is more developed than Russia is what I know. Because Russia is begging drones and missiles from Iran to kill civilians in Ukraine .. By the way, this blood is on your country too ...

Do you think I live in Bulgaria, Ukraine or Russia? LOL These countries have high mortality rate, drop in "level of medicine", energy and heating crisis (except Russia) and low standard of living.

Iran which is where I live is actually at the bottom of the list under all of EU and a lot of other countries. To be precise it is ranked 169 among 203 countries with Ukraine being 2^nd considering mortality rate according to UN stats found here. We also have the second largest gas supplies and first largest amount of fossil fuels in total and have no issue with energy and heating thanks to the largest network of gas pipelines and most sophisticated electrical grid in the world that reaches farthest part of the vast Iran's geography.
The only problem we have is economical (more precisely inflation) which is partly because of 6000+ sanctions against us and the cold war we've been fighting over the past 50 years and partly because of idiotic money printing policy that some presidents have chosen in the past, which is exactly why I have a lot of topics about similar idiotic money printing policies in other countries.

Well Russian budget isn't really affecting the world and the changing of the World Order but the crisis in the West and deindustrialization of the West namely the US colonies does.
But feel free to open a new topic about Russian budget with actual data and your thoughts on its effects on the rest of the world. I'd be interested in reading that.

Dear pooya87 - your feelings for Britain, Germany and other countries are so touching!

Tell me - what about the problems of heating, heating, gas supply, a normal standard of living, the degradation of the social sphere, the degradation of medicine, an increase in mortality, a drop in the level of medicine. the collapse of the economy, which has been going on for 2 decades, in your country - do you not bother at all? Or is it because of the understanding that the government of your country is generally indifferent to what is happening inside the country, and how people live, and there will be no solutions to these problems from the word "completely"? All for the fight against NATO, the fight against LGBT, the fight against freedom, the fight against independence, the fight against the rights of people, the fight against the hostility of the "Russian world" and the fight against the good life in other countries?

By the way - why not a word from you about the "amazing" budget of the Russian Federation for 2023, in which spending on social programs, medicine, education was sharply reduced, reduced on everything, and increased on terrorism and the suppression of internal protests? Or are you not interested?

In order
1. No need to sow panic and try to replicate dubious "news". Yes, some people want it to be that way. It's like the hysterics of the pro-Russian media that the EU will freeze and there will be no gas. Or, as since 2014, we heard squeals that "this year, Ukraine will definitely freeze without our gas"
The EU has gas, there are reserves, there are long-term contracts in exchange for supplies from terrorist countries. Stop throwing information tantrums
2. The fact that the situation is not as simple as it was before - yes, I agree. But this is a temporary process, and it will stabilize to an acceptable level already in 2023, no matter how hard one country is a terrorist
3. Even if the EU prints money, it will remain in the EU, in the form of payments to energy, utility companies, shops and cafes, taxis and other services. The European economy will be able to digest them without giving rise to inflation.
Yes, the situation is complicated; yes, the state takes care of the citizens. This is fine.

Energy problems are getting more serious as the temperature drops.

Case in point UK. There has already been a bunch of small power outages over the past couple of weeks specially in South and South East England like Sussex. The National Grid warning last night was the proof of this electricity shortage which they manually had to cancel to prevent panic specially after they had warned last month about the 3 hour blackouts during the coming winter this year.

Unfortunately they can't solve this problem by throwing money at it...

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/uk-world-news/national-grid-automated-blackout-warning-7854404

japan headline news was prompted a few days ago where they are also selling their bonds and USD. they know they need to trade to Asian countries like China, they can't afford not to trade. this is an isolated country.

japan however had already taken a beating, their currency is way down but like any other country printing money is the way to go to deflate debts. printing is way peaceful way than going war and EU are done with it. they seem to realize they are not wining.

That is what happens when a country has little to no independence when it comes to geopolitics and national interests. Both Germany and Japan are the losers of the second World War and have been practically occupied by United States ever since. They even "shut down" any nationalist movement like Abe in Japan if they start even thinking about independence...

Sometimes I wonder how Japan manages to stay afloat despite this huge debt burden. And with a rapidly ageing population (~40% aged 65 and above), they are a declining economy. The last thing they wanted was an economic war with one of their primary energy suppliers. And the stupid regime just did that, by imposing sanctions against Russia. And I expect the Russians to kick them out of the joint energy development projects in Sakhalin and Yamal. Just when we thought that the Germans are the most stupid ones, the Japanese went one step ahead and did something even more stupid. Anyway, let them face the music during this winter (and for the next few winters as well).

Another case of economic and energy crisis and a situation that doesn't seem to be getting any better. This is in Germany again with 4000+ protests in only 2 months. We are still in Autumn and Winter hasn't come yet.
Unless they can find an actual solution instead of denying the crisis even exists we are going to see more crisis like this and mainly the effects of the money printing today will show in form of more inflation next year.

European crisis management this year is as bad as its get in tackling the energy and economic crisis. A quick look at the Euro compared to the Dollar shows how far behind the Europeans are. The ECB waited to long to start raising interest rates and even now with 10% inflation they are very cautious. The problem is the big difference in European countries and the ECB is more afraid to ruin borrowing costs for southern European countries than to contain inflation. Printing more money is the easy fix that will only move problems into the future, instead of fixing them today. If I had any money to invest right now I would stay away from European markets and look abroad. Another big problem is that the European Union is so divided and doesn't work together properly.

Politicians and their weird ideas.

Christine Lagarde is the President of the ECB, and should be an über nerd on economical knowledge.
Yet these are her latest claim:



The summit of it all:


I have an idea about this:



The above graph shows the annual growth rate in prices i(European Inflation ex food and energy, white line) and the yearly growth rate in the monetary aggregate M2  (money inflation, orange line).

No wonder before the modern economic theory, inflation rate was the growth in money (Hayeck) , rather in prices (Keynes). Where this inflation comes? Really?
Correlation is not causation, yet it’s a very powerful  hint.

PS. Ukrainian invasion happened in February 2022.

I don't know, if I look at the charts, both futures and spot (maybe also here) gas prices are going down since August.
This looks to me more a normalization of the markets (both supply and demand) than caused (only) by the queues of LNG tankers. But I don't know for sure.


I don't know of blackouts in EU. I remember power outages in Middle East (but I may be wrong) this summer(ish), but not in EU.

Here I guess that nobody has expected this go this well this fast (I am also surprised). Of course, it may be just a false sentiment of the market; of course, Russia can reduce further the supply and the markets will become turbulent again.
But UK is not in EU and this may matter much more than they are willing to admit. Plus, clearly, there were/are fears the electricity will become prohibitively expensive and even so it may be missing, just because some politicians thought that relying mostly on Russian gas is okay. And the politics in UK are going from bad to worse since they've left EU. Even in the days EU had no issues, UK had gas/petrol shortages (allegedly because of the truckers).

In EU now coal is also being used for electricity again. Certain atomic power plants will do their job for longer. And the gas got cheaper too. There are now reasonably good chances we'll be OK even without Russian gas. Of course, at the expense of shutting down the most power hungry industries (steel, aluminum and many others).
But UK... I don't know...

Not on the market but in the queue. And that's the biggest problem.

The demand only went down slightly (and will go down more if more industries shut down).

The supply has gone down because the imports from Russia were significantly reduced while the replacement is almost all in form of LNG which has to be received in LNG terminals and converted before pumped into the pipeline in a very hard and time consuming process. This has made a queue of tankers on the sea waiting to dump their cargo and move to next shipment. That forces the price to go down.

This is exactly like COVID time. The demand had slightly come down while supply was still flowing. So when the terminals reached their capacity they couldn't store the oil anymore and that caused the oil price to become negative for the first time in history (AFAIK). The price of petrol and other oil products were still up though.

That's a little contradictory with some news regarding blackouts in different countries (although the scale is still small) and the warning they issued about possibility of a much larger blackout before Truss left the British office.

Politicians do whatever's good for their short-term popularity. Why face a crisis now, if you can throw money at it and push it to the next political term? Even if the inevitable crisis becomes much bigger because of this, it's not their problem anymore when it happens.

The way politicans and central banks are going reaffirms my choice for Bitcoin. They can't print it, so they fear it.

I think that this is an odd way to see the situation, or maybe we've read different news.

Imho the reasons for celebration may be related to the fact the price of gas has been falling, and that by a great deal. It's a trend that means that there's (more than enough) gas on the market, hence also decreasing the pressure on the electricity price (by also creating more electricity from that gas).

The news coming out of Europe has been pretty weird lately.

On one hand the mainstream media celebrated the fact that gas in EU is now worth a lot higher compared to last year by focusing on price not being at ATH (kinda like those who talk about bitcoin price drop after the bubble pops)!

On another hand they claim to have their storages full while the energy dependent industries keep shutting down around EU and the energy sector leaders talk about a severe shortage. Not to mention the power outages that are starting to happen in some European countries.

That's just the best case scenarios out of the 44 European countries rest of which are facing a much worse energy crisis.

There is one popular saying that describes the essence of such a presentation of information well. Literally from Ukrainian, it can be translated as "a fool is rich in his fantasies"

Although such a presentation of information is also characteristic of all Russian media, including politicians. Okay, let's leave the mental "features" aside, let's move on to the main thing.
Provide official information about:
1. The scale of "money printing" by the indicated countries
2. Purpose of these additional financial resources

But then, on the basis of not fantasy, but reality, we will discuss what is happening?

At the same time, yes, I completely agree that during the covid pandemic, many countries that care about their population were forced to turn on "money printing", consciously understanding the risks and consequences in order to support their population and business in such a critical situations. I understand it is difficult to understand for residents of countries where the population is just biomass, and the state does not care about them at all

Japan is another country (that is basically defined in the Western Bloc) to inject a huge amount of money into the economy to artificially keep it afloat and only postpone all the problems that they are going to face for a short time. The amount is $490 billion stimulus which was approved recently [1].
It is worth mentioning that after United States, Japan has the largest national debt of whopping $15.3 trillion and a public debt to GDP ratio of 289% [2]!

[1] https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/japan-to-okay-490-billion-in-stimulus-to-cushion-impact-of-inflation-122102800189_1.html
[2] https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Bro these aren't ordinary citizens printing money, they are governments with access to economists in the country to give input on what will happen when such action is taken, so trust me they are fully aware printing more money isn't the solution, but they will rather take the easier way out than finding a tactical solution.