EU solution to energy crisis: print more money and ensure economic crisis! - page 4.

pooya87

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The news coming out of Europe has been pretty weird lately.

On one hand the mainstream media celebrated the fact that gas in EU is now worth a lot higher compared to last year by focusing on price not being at ATH (kinda like those who talk about bitcoin price drop after the bubble pops)!

On another hand they claim to have their storages full while the energy dependent industries keep shutting down around EU and the energy sector leaders talk about a severe shortage. Not to mention the power outages that are starting to happen in some European countries.

Quote from: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fears-british-gas-just-9-28349250

The UK has just 9 days of gas supply left, the owner of British Gas warned today - as it reopened a giant storage site ahead of winter.
Centrica said the UK has some of the lowest levels of gas storage in Europe, compared to Germany which has 89 days' worth, France at 103 and the Netherlands at 123.

That's just the best case scenarios out of the 44 European countries rest of which are facing a much worse energy crisis.

DrBeer

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There is one popular saying that describes the essence of such a presentation of information well. Literally from Ukrainian, it can be translated as "a fool is rich in his fantasies"

Although such a presentation of information is also characteristic of all Russian media, including politicians. Okay, let's leave the mental "features" aside, let's move on to the main thing.
Provide official information about:
1. The scale of "money printing" by the indicated countries
2. Purpose of these additional financial resources

But then, on the basis of not fantasy, but reality, we will discuss what is happening?

At the same time, yes, I completely agree that during the covid pandemic, many countries that care about their population were forced to turn on "money printing", consciously understanding the risks and consequences in order to support their population and business in such a critical situations. I understand it is difficult to understand for residents of countries where the population is just biomass, and the state does not care about them at all

pooya87

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Japan is another country (that is basically defined in the Western Bloc) to inject a huge amount of money into the economy to artificially keep it afloat and only postpone all the problems that they are going to face for a short time. The amount is $490 billion stimulus which was approved recently [1].
It is worth mentioning that after United States, Japan has the largest national debt of whopping $15.3 trillion and a public debt to GDP ratio of 289% [2]!

[1] https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/japan-to-okay-490-billion-in-stimulus-to-cushion-impact-of-inflation-122102800189_1.html
[2] https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Bitstar_coin

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Quote from: 348Judah on October 25, 2022, 09:07:32 AM

In fact many don't realize that printing more money isn't the solution to the global economic crisis, it will rather worsen the conditions when other factors meant to be in olace were not, aslo the first constituents to the global energy crisis is the government as well becau the they have failed to set a control system as measures to tackle the effect from the energy utilized and it's effect on the environment as a whole, whenever there's an headache, the solution doesn't start be cutting off the head, it time they repositions their target to the economic development and growth and encourage active participation from every sectors involve to build a good environment and have a dree economic flow above inflation and other disastrous factors that hinders it from progressing.

Bro these aren't ordinary citizens printing money, they are governments with access to economists in the country to give input on what will happen when such action is taken, so trust me they are fully aware printing more money isn't the solution, but they will rather take the easier way out than finding a tactical solution.

pooya87

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Quote from: crwth on October 25, 2022, 09:51:23 AM

Isn't it suitable for the short term? It's not going to be good enough for a long time. Since the economy might be even in more danger if that happens, imagine having lots of money injected into the economy and people that have nothing to do with decreasing the supply. It will be like wanting more inflation affecting everyone in the world.

Governments always choose the easiest solution for short term when facing a crisis instead of the harder long term solutions. This is why printing money has always been on top of the solution list at times like this. For example during the pandemic the choice was between a catastrophic recession and long term inflation so they printed money to avoid the former knowing they cause the later.

Right now they have the same choice to either find a replacement for Russian energy to increase the supply (and decrease its price) or to increase inflation in long term by artificially decreasing the price to solve the problem short term. I think they chose this route (ending in inflation) to try and get over winter and postpone finding an alternative energy source for next year, which in my opinion is a big gamble since there are a lot of unpredictable variables involved in that.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 25, 2022, 09:41:25 AM

Remember the pandemic? Bitcoin price was below $10k and it even went as low as $3k while they kept printing money and while people (like today) were moaning about "why bitcoin isn't mooning". Suffice it to say that bitcoin price went up 2200% as inflation showed itself more.

Politicians' solution for everything is printing money. Nothing new there.
We, bitcoiners can cry that our income is falling and the daily expenses rise and, on the other hand, we can be happy that we're bitcoiners and bitcoin price will fix this, sooner or later.

stompix

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Quote from: davis196 on October 25, 2022, 06:48:06 AM

What's the point of this forum post? Crying and whining about the European central bank's monetary policies?
The natural gas prices in Europe actually went down recently, because the European gas storage facilities are filled up to 90%.

This is the reason why:
Eu gas and electricity prices drop 80% to 2021 level, another apocalypse averted

He got triggered by it, he hates the EU and the USA so much he is just desperate that none of them are crashing down, that nobody cares about his propaganda where germans burn wood, where they are out of sunflower oil where 150% of the companies are unemployed and al those lies.

He looks around, he sees inflation at 60%, and he sees people getting 7$ a month to buy food from the government, but it's all about Europe going to be doomed.
And when reality hits he gets so triggered sprouting nonsense like the above!
Forget gas, we don't need gas when we see the Russian and Iranian propagandists burning in their own envy flames.

crwth

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Isn't it suitable for the short term? It's not going to be good enough for a long time. Since the economy might be even in more danger if that happens, imagine having lots of money injected into the economy and people that have nothing to do with decreasing the supply. It will be like wanting more inflation affecting everyone in the world.

pooya87

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Quote from: davis196 on October 25, 2022, 06:48:06 AM

What's the point of this forum post? Crying and whining about the European central bank's monetary policies?

Remember the pandemic 2 years ago? Whenever they start printing fiat, the value of that fiat dumps. It won't happen right away but it is guaranteed. So you'll have to use that to your advantage by expecting inflation and looking for hedges against it.
Remember the pandemic? Bitcoin price was below $10k and it even went as low as $3k while they kept printing money and while people (like today) were moaning about "why bitcoin isn't mooning". Suffice it to say that bitcoin price went up 2200% as inflation showed itself more.

They are printing fiat again and bitcoin price is $19k today.

There will be hard times ahead but I believe after the economic crisis in the West is concluded, there is a good chance that we would be seeing the biggest bitcoin rally in history specifically due to all the value that fiat will have lost by then.

348Judah

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In fact many don't realize that printing more money isn't the solution to the global economic crisis, it will rather worsen the conditions when other factors meant to be in olace were not, aslo the first constituents to the global energy crisis is the government as well becau the they have failed to set a control system as measures to tackle the effect from the energy utilized and it's effect on the environment as a whole, whenever there's an headache, the solution doesn't start be cutting off the head, it time they repositions their target to the economic development and growth and encourage active participation from every sectors involve to build a good environment and have a dree economic flow above inflation and other disastrous factors that hinders it from progressing.

davis196

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What's the point of this forum post? Crying and whining about the European central bank's monetary policies?
The natural gas prices in Europe actually went down recently, because the European gas storage facilities are filled up to 90%.
The European Union imports a tiny amount of Russian gas right now. The expectations of a global recession pushed the oil/gas prices down, so the OPEC countries decided to lower their oil production. The EU inflation rates will start lowering in 2023-2024, when the EU economy adapts to the new supply chains and the newly found "gas independence" from Russia.
I know that the European central bank reacts really slow to the inflation, but increasing the interest rates will create problems with certain countries to pay off their debts(Italy, Greece, etc.).

yudi09

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Emergency measures called for by parliament to tackle rising energy prices, including restrictions on imports of pipeline gas.
As parliament demanded in September that renewables should achieve a 45% share in the EU's energy mix by 2030, from the current target of 32%. As discussed by Morten Petersen in an interview. I think it can be a solution to the crisis they are experiencing.
source

I consider that this crisis cannot be separated from a country's excessive dependence on other countries for its needs. Regarding the EU crisis, it can be judged that the EU is too dependent on Russia for imports.

pooya87

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Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
This is not some ancient history we're talking about, it's all recent. They recently went on a money printing spree during the pandemic and the consequences of it are being felt today in form of economic crisis. Euro, Dollar, Pound, etc all got dumped because of it and yet to solve the energy crisis they decided to print even more money and inject it into the industry to artificially lower the price for a short time; the reduction is not even that significant and we already know the consequences of market manipulation like this!

Quote

In Germany, Europe’s biggest economy, the leadership is trying to spend its way out of the crisis as only it can. But even there it’s not clear the relief will be felt in time, and whether it will further wobble the country’s already deeply divided stance on how to help Ukraine and whether to work with Russia or isolate it.

They injected 200 billion euros in one of their attempts alone!
The public is already divided and angry enough, with protests breaking out all around Europe every day, yet they put a bandaid on an amputated leg! Cheesy

Not surprising that New York Times is already comparing the current crisis in Europe with World Wars era!

Quote

That moment, it seems, is arriving as strikes and protests over the rising cost of living proliferate, ushering in a period of social and labor unrest not seen since at least the 1970s.

“We have seen this after the First World War, Second World War and also in the ’70s,” said Kurt Vandaele, a senior researcher at the European Trade Union Institute. “There were strike waves associated with a real spike in inflation.”

How much worse the ongoing protests in Europe are going to get in the future when inflation caused by today's crazy money printing hits their countries? The inflation is already at its highest in decades in the Union where poorer countries specially in Eastern Europe face the worse of it which leads to riots every day.

Quote

In the eastern states that are among the country’s poorest, and most conservative, tens of thousands of protesters take to the streets weekly

in France, the strikes and demonstrations are gaining in intensity as a fear of eroding living standards dominates concerns, polls say.

Tens of thousands gathered in the Czech capital for the second such protest in a month, spurred by an energy crisis and rising prices that are affecting countries across Europe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/21/world/europe/inflation-prices-britain-ukraine-russia.html

Topic: EU solution to energy crisis: print more money and ensure economic crisis! - page 4. (Read 958 times)