Topic: EU Told to Back Vaccine Passports or Google May Do It Anyway - page 3. (Read 776 times)

The statistics prove exactly what they set out to prove. If you don't agree with them, then present some evidence to the contrary.

The article you have linked says COVID has a death rate of 0.27% on average, which works out as 270 per 100,000. The CDC puts the mortality rate for flu at 1.8 per 100,000, while the KFF puts it at 2.8. Using that paper to draw the conclusion that "mortality from COVID is not much different than mortality from the flu" is incorrect.

A study of 135,000 patients: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30527-0/fulltext

I don't know how you have the gall to say that when you are blatantly making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence. You're presenting isolated statistics that don't prove anything.

That I have not presented evidence? I have presented you with WHO articles, articles published in Nature, in the BMJ. You are the one who only attends to isolated data so that they reinforce what you previously want them to demonstrate.


And you keep going on and on with the bullshit of spouting isolated statistics here to supposedly prove the things you'd like to be true. Well, they aren't. That is, of the people who have less than a 1% chance of dying, of those 15 to 20% supposedly have no underlying health conditions.

So statistically, that's fucking shit close to 0 no matter how you look at it.


For me this is not a matter of trust. Lies dammed lies and statistics. The links he is putting are isolated statistics that don't mean anything.


You haven't read the article published in the World Health Organisation that I've put before. I'll put it again:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

It basically says that mortality from COVID is not much different than mortality from the flu.

That peak is because anyone who died was labeled as the cause of death: "COVID". There was a video around of the Irish parliament where an MP was questioning someone from Health and one by one he picked apart how alleged COVID deaths were labeled. Basically if you are 95 years old, have terminal cancer, die and test positive for COVID they put the cause of death as COVID.

Edit: It's taken me some time to find it, but I've finally found it. Otherwise some people were going to say that I was making this up:

https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMcNamaraTD/posts/3840557722640402

This is his Facebook page the MPs Facebook page.

I don’t trust any of those statistics from those who want us locked down..


Either way, I’m not goi g to hide in my house for the rest of my life or wear a mask for the rest of my life..
I don’t care if it kills a billion people.. Maybe it will kill me..


Sure diaper masks help “some”.. But if they really wanted to stop it they would be saying to use masks that seriously work..
It’s a scam..

Look at all this propaganda about wearing 2 and even 3 diaper masks at the same time!!
Insane!

A half face with p-100s is more comfortable and DOESNT FOG UP YOUR GLASSES!!

You know why diaper masks dog up your glasses?
BECAUSE YOU BREATHE AROUND THEM NOT THROUGH THEM..


It’s a scam and all the NPCs are fooled..

We've had this argument quite a lot over the last year.

My answer has always been: don't look at reason for death, look at number of deaths from any reason.
Something has been killing huge numbers of people over the last year, way more than normal... and this just happens to coincide with the Covid pandemic. There hasn't been a flu-or-anything-else pandemic.

Look, for example, at the UK in April 2020, peak of the first wave of Covid... deaths more than 100% above the 2015-2019 average. The pattern is stark, the evidence conclusive.


https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Please stop just making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence.

US stats:
17% of those who died aged under 65 had no underlying health conditions.

UK stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnounderlyingconditionsbyageband
Attention drawn to table 6a.
Of 542 deaths in age range 0-44, 101 (18.6%) had no underlying health conditions.
Of 457 deaths in age range 45-49, 91 (19.9%) had no underlying health conditions.
Of 847 deaths in age range 50-54, 123 (14.5%) had no underlying health conditions.

Yes, older people and those with comorbidities have a higher risk of death from COVID (and I never claimed otherwise), but young people are dying, healthy people are dying, and young healthy people are dying.

Where are the age groups in those percentages? Saying that 6% of deaths (or 9%, it doesn't matter) has no underlying health conditions and not taking into account the age is, simply, distorting the truth:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinmay2020



So you mean that those 6% (or 9%) were older than 60 in 99,9% of the cases and older than 80 also in the vast majority of cases. So those are the healthy persons dying from COVID. Healthy 80-something year-olds. The truth is that COVID mortality is no much different than flu mortality, here is another link for you:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

To your knowledge: according to your parameters, "healthy" people also die of the flu. And it had never occurred to anyone to curtail freedoms and impose obligations everywhere because of it.

US stats: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities
6% of deaths had no underlying health conditions.

UK stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithandwithoutpreexistingconditions
8.9% of deaths had no underlying health conditions.

Because the study you quoted proves my point.

Jet Cash said "Natural immunity has 100% success". I said "COVID reinfections do happen". You then linked a study which shows reinfections happening. Not sure what I'm supposed to respond to. It's a small number, yes, but reinfections do happen.

No they aren't. The probability of a healthy person dying from COVID is so low as to be statistically insignificant. Later you even say yourself:


You saying that healthy people are dying from COVID sounds to me the same as Jet Cash saying that people are dying everywhere in the short term from getting the vaccine. In reality, you are not so different, even if the discourse you defend is the opposite.


I am still waiting for your reply from when I cited a study of 10 million people done in Wuhan, China. Is a study of 10 million people in the place where the epidemic originated scientific enough for you? Here I quote it back to you, I've been waiting almost two months for a response:

anyway. to summarise the topic

there will be no ID2020
you can go shopping and move around without any 'passport'

if you want to go to any larch audience event like watching sports or music concerts
you have 3 options
1. not currently have covid
2. already had covid and recovered
3. have had vaccine

its not a single option. there is no force. no military will handcuff or shoot you. no ones going to swat your house.

in short
calm the hell down.

its like tvbcof just learned the word plasmid 2 week ago and is on a spree of spamming the word to make it seem like he knows what it is

if he knew the differences. and new about things like the pores of the nucleus cell wall.
also also learned about the differences in length of the vaccines code vs DNA code

if he could do the research that puts all that detail together
he would then know that the vaccine DNA doesnt have the function codes that allow it to change dna nor replicate.

and finally he would stop flip flopping spending weeks arguing that he never claimed the vaccines change dna but then today flop back to his narrative insinuating it does

tvbcof please DO YOUR RESEARCH

recognise the vaccine code does not contain the ability to change DNA. doesnt have the length to replace dna. . is not even a full length dna. and at the processes between the cell entry to the nucleus the strands break down to fit through the nucleus pores

now please go learn
the vaccine is not the lengthy processes of crispr bundled up in a vaccine capsid

Let's forget for a moment that there is no operational difference between a designer gene spliced into the victim's chromosomal DNA or transcribing off a nuclear plasmid and both could legitimately be described as "changing your DNA"...

One of the arguments the mRNA folks (BioNTech, Moderna) use for their technology is that, compared to the DNA technology (AstraZeneca, J&J, etc), their mRNA technology reduces the chances of the plasmidal DNA inserts into the cell nucleus accidentally integrating with the chromosomal DNA.  (Students of science will understand that such 'accidents' are pretty much they way we humans got here in our current form...for better or worse.)

So, you either have to claim that the mRNA folks are making up tall tales in order to sell their wares, or that the possibility exists for genuine chromosomal integration happening with the DNA vaccines in at least some accidental circumstances.  It's pretty much one or the other, and if it's the former, it is worth asking what else the mRNA folks might be lying about in order to make sales.

What country is that? Sounds like a nazi regime. I thought having a mask on was enough to visit places...

In my country, you can refuse to be vaccinated, but you have to report that you refuse to be vaccinated to the relevant parties. They will register your name and later your name will be recorded. And then when you enter an area, related parties can refuse you to enter or not. So many people are forced to want to be vaccinated, so they can go anywhere.

Healthy != immortal. Healthy people are dying from COVID.

I don't blindly trust anyone. I read the trials. This is the exact opposite. People on here who say "Listen to what this expert says" - that is asking you to blindly trust the opinion of one person. Reading a trial with millions of participants is not blindly trusting anything. It is verifying.

It absolutely does not.

And I've told the families of healthy people in their 20s and 30s over the phone that their loved one is going to die and they are not allowed to visit. Small individual samples are not indicative of the wider situation.

The vaccine does not change your DNA. There is no way it even could change your DNA without rewriting everything we know about cell biology.

Nothing in life is ever going to be 100%, vaccines included, so every unvaccinated person does indeed pose a risk.

That is the whole point. A simple face mask is not designed to protect the wearer, but to protect others.

But if you are young and healthy and catch Covid, and only have mild symptoms, you still spread the virus around, and potentially infect vulnerable people. If you take the vaccine you protect others.



Same with this I suppose. The masks aren't perfect, but their main purpose is to stop the virus getting out through the mask to other people, rather than to stop it getting in. Masks are more about protecting others than about protecting yourself. Yes, I agree they're by no means 100% effective - but any protection, even partial, is better than none.



You're right, I shouldn't group together everyone who doesn't want the vaccine. But regarding the point that 'if you get vaccinated, you don't have to worry about me getting vaccinated'... yes, I personally don't have to worry, but you can still infect others who haven't been vaccinated.



Finally, I totally agree with this. Almost all of the blame for the current situation lies with politicians not wanting to be unpopular. If every government around the world had implemented immediate 2-week quarantining of people entering the country, and had done so as soon as it became apparent that China had a problem in January 2020... then the result would have been no pandemic, no lockdowns within countries, no masks, etc. But governments aren't like that. They don't take action to prevent a problem, instead they wait until something becomes a problem, wait a bit longer until it becomes a really big problem, then finally, much too late, decide to try to do something about it.

seems there are many covid deniers in this topic

what these deniers seem to keep spouting is that they dont realise basic facts.
they have binary brains thinking covid has 2 options
no smell vs death

they dont understand that there actually is a scale even for those not hospitalised
its like
loss of tastes/smell
cough
loss of appetite
fever/chills
fatigue
insomnia
breathlessness
abdominal pains
etc

where symptoms not only scale from 0-10
but also where the length of symptoms go from 1day-12 weeks
yep even people that dont need hospital care get #long covid'
30% of those getting the top 6 symptoms have them in varying amounts for months

there is no 65yo cut off line of the binary ignorance of fine or dead
there is actually a scale of illness going from such minor issues they dont notice. to issues that are just annoying but concerning. to issues that interrupt peoples normal day (tired but cant sleep)
to issues where they have to just rest up in bed because they just so warn out day and night
and thats before even getting to the severity of needing hospitalisation

an yes im calling BS to the guy saying he had tons of friends with only loss of taste/smell or no symptoms
and thats because most people wont waste time in their day getting tested for no reason.
they would have by just normal common sense and psychology only want to take time out of their day to book a test and travel to get a test if they are concerned about their symptoms because their symptoms are not only noticeable. but concerning enough to make them want to know if its covid or not

so if the guy above is thinking loads of his co-horts were not worried/concerned/suffering at all.. then they would not have got tested.
i cant see any common sense where people would bother getting tested just for giggles and boredom

..
but the funny part is that the guy is also a mask denier
even though surgical masks are worn by.. surgeons..
yep they are affective.

i would say home proper N95 are the better ones to wear. but not as cheap. surgical masks are cheaper. and fabric home made coverings are cheaper.
its also a scale of protection from
95% N95
80% surgical masks
40% face covering

where a combination of surgical and face covering is more than 80%
but yea the mask denier is still binary mindset thinking only in yes or no option of does it work. not accepting that the real world is actually not binary.

Precisely because it is a question of young and old, we are not going to think that people over 80 will live forever.

Restrictive measures should have been taken with the elderly and people with risk factors, but no politician has wanted to impose quarantines and lockdowns only on the elderly because they knew they had a lot of votes to lose.


You don't know what current vaccines do. For people who get vaccinated they prevent them from get serious symptoms, so if you get vaccinated, you don't have to worry about me getting vaccinated or not. Anti-vaxxers is a word you have pulled out of your sleeve to disqualify without arguments. I am pro-vaccine, but I am against being forced to take this one.

Here we go disqualifying again. So this is about morally superior beings and evil beings who refuse to get vaccines. Come on!

Only vulnerable people should get the vaccine..
All of us healthy people should just eventually catch Covid and gain immunity the natural way..

What if I’ve already had Covid? You still are going to force me to get a vaccine so I can travel?

Fucking vaccine has worse side effects than Covid!!

I know a TON of people that have tested positive for Covid.. I don’t think even one had a fever or any even slightly severe cold/flu symptoms..
They most just say it was weird loosing their taste and smell for a little while..
MANY I know tested positive HAD NO SYMPTOMS AT ALL!!

And you want to inject me with something that will change my DNA?
Fuck that..

If your scared of Covid get the vaccine..
If you get the vaccine the. You don’t have to be afraid of my unvaccinated ass standing right next to you with no mask..


Y’all are ridiculous thinking everyone in the world needs the vaccine..
It’s insane..


Oh..
And if you are one of those types wearing 2 masks, you are an NPC and have NO IDEA how masks work..

I have real masks for everything from silica dust to chemical/biological weapon first response..
I know masks..
These face panties are a JOKE!!!
If a company put you in even just a dusty environment it would be ILLEGAL to wear one of these stupid masks.. They don’t do shit!! You don’t even really breathe THROUGH them..

Maybe they slightly reduce the spread of YOUR breath outwards, BUT THAT IS ALL!!

Wear as many as you want, they aren’t even filters of any type..
Dust, smoke, gasses, biologicals, chemicals, they don’t do shit to protect you..


If they really gave a shit they would be recommending p-100 masks.. They are even cheap!!
A good p100 mask only costs about the same as a pack of these face diapers, and then filters to change are only like $5! Maybe change em once a week (depending on environment)..

It is to an extent about young and old, though. If you're young and healthy then chances are you won't suffer serious effects... but that's not really the point. If you're young and healthy and coughing Covid onto everyone, chances are you'll infect someone who is more vulnerable.

For the young and healthy, vaccination isn't so much about protecting the individual as it is about protecting the more vulnerable people in society. Same with face masks, social distancing, etc.
Anti-vaxxers can kill other people by refusing to take the vaccine.


I think it's more about morality and empathy. The selfish, and those who want to protect everyone.

To be honest, I don't know where you got that idea mixing vaccines and the rich/poor gap but it makes no sense. It's more about ideology: the sheep and those who resist, who protest. We have seen restrictions imposed on individual freedoms, de facto compulsory vaccination, etc. for a virus whose overall mortality it's below 1%. This is not about rich and poor.