Excessive Bitcoin fees - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

YUriy1991

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Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

Of course, when fees are high, users always look for alternatives that are considered more flexible as you mentioned above in trading Bitcoin through centralized exchanges.

The issue of fee has always been a hot discussion, I myself respond to it usually and this is also I think there is a positive value which on the other hand is also a driver for regulators to pay more serious attention in finding and setting reasonable costs so that the best solution will be born in an effort to improve network scalability and efficiency.

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Quote from: btc_angela on April 12, 2024, 07:49:39 AM

There were point in time when the transaction fees have subside already and so we can say that average joe traders and investors are very happy and everyone is back. But now in the last couple of days, the fees has someone increase again and thanks to Runes and the timing of it's released.

Nevertheless, for me this is just another temporary hiccups to all of us and we should bear with it. This won't last long as we have seen last year and then gradually back to like 6-10 sat/vB (in my view this is bearable to most Bitcoin enthusiast).

Damn, I have this thread on watch and wondered why there are people commenting in it while the fees are low and more than good at the moment (last time I checked the fees was Tuesday, haha).

And then I checked the mempool and saw the bad news.
It's so strange to see this happen all the time, without any clue why it is actually happening. For a while fees are super low and everybody is happy and suddenly bang, congestion.
Hopefully this issue will be fixed some day, don't know how this could be done though.

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Quote from: btc_angela on April 12, 2024, 07:49:39 AM

Nevertheless, for me this is just another temporary hiccups to all of us and we should bear with it. This won't last long as we have seen last year and then gradually back to like 6-10 sat/vB (in my view this is bearable to most Bitcoin enthusiast).

I hope so, the fees are terribly high again. I am optimistic that maybe after a week or two then it will be back again. But this time, those that are okay to pay like $9-$14 worth of fees, do it. But it's worth it when you've got a thousand worth of transaction but if it's less than $100 or even $200, do you think that it's worth of the fee? Well, if you need the money, you can't do anything with that. I'm just here waiting for it to calm down.

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Quote from: Synchronice on April 12, 2024, 03:51:07 AM

Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

I don't think we will have a situation when Bitcoin transaction fees will only be affordable for large institutions and not for individuals. If that becomes the case, then we might demand for fork to increase the block size.
Network is centralized at some point because centralized exchanges hold the most reserves and have the highest trading volume and secondly, China and the USA own the most mining hash rate. So, bitcoin is centralized at some point.

There were point in time when the transaction fees have subside already and so we can say that average joe traders and investors are very happy and everyone is back. But now in the last couple of days, the fees has someone increase again and thanks to Runes and the timing of it's released.

Nevertheless, for me this is just another temporary hiccups to all of us and we should bear with it. This won't last long as we have seen last year and then gradually back to like 6-10 sat/vB (in my view this is bearable to most Bitcoin enthusiast).

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Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

This is an important point to talk about.there are a lot of reason why bitcoin fess is high, for instance where there’s a high network congestion , when there’s a lot of user engaging in the bitcoin transaction and exchanges and this can lead to high volume of transactions fees because of excessive activity on this.

Another one is excessive demand ,it’s a simple logic the more user engaging in it can cause blockage and when you need a faster way out to get access to a something you have to pay a high fess to get access it to so whatever you have to do with it. Bitcoin Halving can also result to Bitcoin block reward halving, which occurs approximately every four years, reduces the number of new bitcoins generated with each block. This can incentivize miners to prioritize transactions with higher fees to compensate for the reduced block rewards.so there a lot of reason for high bitcoin fees but it’s only discouraging it for peolpe or user with little capital and majorly making it for the company to enjoy it because of the high fees transaction costs.

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Op, the trading fees is never specified neither is it stabled. If the self custodian blockchain fee increases, so also the centralized exchange fees also increases.
Right in the first place, you or minor investors should ask yourself a question that Why does bitcoineers have to pay much fees in a self custodian blockchain? This is actually because you're being billed to pay for an assured secured blockchain unlike the centralized exchange where you're not a whole in charge of your assets. On this mindset single handedly, neither you or the other investors who're below large institutions wouldn't prepare to store your assets on the centralized exchange just because of a lower fee.
What happens if your assets is compromised out of greeds of trying to skip high fees? That's just a food for thought!
And at this point of contact, bitcoin can never be succeeded to be centralized.

Quote from: BitMaxz on February 12, 2024, 01:51:00 PM

I'm a bit confused about what you trying to say but Bitcoin will never become centralized because Satoshi made Bitcoin for decentralization.

The Op mean to say if only a large institutions can afford to pay the high fees of a self custodian blockchain, then the minor bitcoin Investors may pull over to have their bitcoin assets stored in a centralized exchange which could encounter to a centralization of bitcoin since most Investors would have their assets there in centralized exchanges.

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Quote from: Synchronice on April 12, 2024, 03:51:07 AM

Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

I don't think we will have a situation when Bitcoin transaction fees will only be affordable for large institutions and not for individuals. If that becomes the case, then we might demand for fork to increase the block size.
Network is centralized at some point because centralized exchanges hold the most reserves and have the highest trading volume and secondly, China and the USA own the most mining hash rate. So, bitcoin is centralized at some point.

Have you tried checking bitcoin's transaction fees today and if I remember correctly the transaction fees are around 40$ per transaction? In your opinion, is this transaction fee suitable for retail investors? If we don't have any solution to improve transaction fees, in the future bitcoin will no longer be suitable for many people as transaction fees will constantly increase. We are just at a stage where bitcoin's popularity is yet to spread globally, and just think if it adopts globally and the number of transactions increases, what will the transaction fees be like? I think it's entirely possible that we will spend $100-300 per bitcoin transaction in the future.

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Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

I don't think we will have a situation when Bitcoin transaction fees will only be affordable for large institutions and not for individuals. If that becomes the case, then we might demand for fork to increase the block size.
Network is centralized at some point because centralized exchanges hold the most reserves and have the highest trading volume and secondly, China and the USA own the most mining hash rate. So, bitcoin is centralized at some point.

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Quote from: Zanab247 on April 01, 2024, 02:30:40 PM

Don't allow the fees to stop you not to use your opportunity well to hodl some BTC that will make you great in the future because, the high fees will not remain high forever and you can see that the fees has reduced down to make some people to believe that BTC gas fees will not go higher like ETH.

Even some companies that are using BTC to do other things like paying their workers with BTC know that the fees will not remain higher, which is the reason they are not move with the recent increase of BTC transactions fees.

We have transactions fees in the market, most of them are consider cheap while some are high, though they're originated from these blockchain networks. Like the Ethereum network, evolved high fees for their transactions unlike the SOL that's weigh better than Ethereum network. There's nothing to worry about, once we have target on the blockchain, the fees are affordable. The future is promising for most investors, I'm referring to the patient ones and this have been a long path to cross.

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Quote from: Out of mind on April 01, 2024, 11:07:07 PM

Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

Basically, in most cases we know that trading with Bitcoin is very convenient, and it is possible very fast. However, small traders face many problems due to Bitcoin's sometimes excessive transaction free. Although we are currently successful in doing transactions with very low freebies, there are times when the number of Bitcoin transactions increases significantly. This is mainly due to the pressure of Bitcoin transactions which require high transaction fees, when you deposit your funds on an exchange or transfer from there to anywhere your fees are slightly higher. However, even if it is for a temporary period, the payment system will later become accurate and complete with lower transaction fees. So no need to stress about it if you wait a BTC transaction fees will definitely come down, and currently Bitcoin transaction fees are very low.

So then
is the whole point of Bitcoin now trading for local currency on exchange, not p2p transactions?

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Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

I believe the challenge with bitcoin network regarding it transaction fee is not getting longer beyond expectations, moreover this is not the network having the highest fee, there are many other ones which cost more than we have with the bitcoin network, just as we now see that there is ease in the transaction fee that has been a problem on bitcoin users, one can no spend almost less than a dollar in making a bitcoin transaction unlike when it was high, this is not something permanent to remain high or this low, but it can be promising not to go beyond what an average bitcoiner could bear to afford.

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Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

Basically, in most cases we know that trading with Bitcoin is very convenient, and it is possible very fast. However, small traders face many problems due to Bitcoin's sometimes excessive transaction free. Although we are currently successful in doing transactions with very low freebies, there are times when the number of Bitcoin transactions increases significantly. This is mainly due to the pressure of Bitcoin transactions which require high transaction fees, when you deposit your funds on an exchange or transfer from there to anywhere your fees are slightly higher. However, even if it is for a temporary period, the payment system will later become accurate and complete with lower transaction fees. So no need to stress about it if you wait a BTC transaction fees will definitely come down, and currently Bitcoin transaction fees are very low.

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Quote from: KingsDen on April 01, 2024, 05:02:37 PM

The Op is not saying he will not buy BTC or he is not holding it because transaction fee will be high in the future. He is just raising concern that now institutional traders can buy bitcoin, exchanges are also there, that when price of bitcoin gets so high, it might lead to network congestion that will make the transaction fees go higher. It is just that OP didn't remember that both institutional traders and exchanges also depend on the bitcoin blockchain. The larger the amount traded, the larger the fee.

Network congestion comes from many reasons and generally if demand becomes bigger and exceeds capacity of the network, block size to deal with, it will cause mempool congestions and it will trigger transaction fee race. Consequently fee rates will be come higher and more expensive but if people are fully aware of what they are doing, they will avoid to be part of the endless fee rate race, and congestion will be cooled down.

Inscriptions, Mempools and Miners.

Expensive transaction fees months ago mainly come from Ordinals, BRC20 tokens, not from traditional Bitcoin users. Demand on BRC20 tokens has been tailing off with time and Bitcoin mempools returns to nearly normal. Fee rates are still expensive but much cheaper than months ago.

Being able to move your bitcoins with fee rates from 7 to 8 satoshi/vbyte is actually better.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),6m,weight

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Quote from: Zanab247 on April 01, 2024, 02:30:40 PM

Don't allow the fees to stop you not to use your opportunity well to hodl some BTC that will make you great in the future because, the high fees will not remain high forever and you can see that the fees has reduced down to make some people to believe that BTC gas fees will not go higher like ETH.

Even some companies that are using BTC to do other things like paying their workers with BTC know that the fees will not remain higher, which is the reason they are not move with the recent increase of BTC transactions fees.

The Op is not saying he will not buy BTC or he is not holding it because transaction fee will be high in the future. He is just raising concern that now institutional traders can buy bitcoin, exchanges are also there, that when price of bitcoin gets so high, it might lead to network congestion that will make the transaction fees go higher. It is just that OP didn't remember that both institutional traders and exchanges also depend on the bitcoin blockchain. The larger the amount traded, the larger the fee.

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Don't allow the fees to stop you not to use your opportunity well to hodl some BTC that will make you great in the future because, the high fees will not remain high forever and you can see that the fees has reduced down to make some people to believe that BTC gas fees will not go higher like ETH.

Even some companies that are using BTC to do other things like paying their workers with BTC know that the fees will not remain higher, which is the reason they are not move with the recent increase of BTC transactions fees.

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Quote from: Eddie Sockittome on March 30, 2024, 08:28:55 PM

I struggle to understand how the fees are calculated and even online calculators rarely bring it down to an actual $ fee.
If some whale decided to sell 1,000 Bitcoin today in one transaction, what would the actual fee would be in dollars and cents? Can it even be estimated ahead of time?

The amount of Bitcoin moved is irrelevant and has no connection to the fees paid.
What matters is how many inputs you have and to how many addresses you pay!
Here is a detailed thread with everything you need to know:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/beginners-guide-to-transaction-fees-5251213

There are plenty of online calculators on how much you would have to pay for a transaction at a certain time, https://mempool.space/ is the best estimator for what you have to pay for a simple x, as I type 25sat/vb would be enough for a next block confirmation, so considering the size of a tx at 140vb that's around 2.50 in USD!

Quote from: Reatim on March 30, 2024, 10:17:11 PM

The reason why the transaction fees are so high is because of congested mempool which is not forever and besides we are now seeing various solutions for this we just need to find the best one

Limited block space, higher demand, increased fees!
It's pretty simple, everyone is anxious about the halving but they don't realize the same principles apply to the pace in the chain, with lower supply and higher demand prices go up!

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Quote from: Reatim on March 30, 2024, 10:17:11 PM

Thus why we should hope for bitcoin to not reach that point

The reason why the transaction fees are so high is because of
congested mempool which is not forever and besides we are now
seeing various solutions for this we just need to find the best one

If we want massive Bitcoin adoption, we can't hope for lower Bitcoin prices because massive adoption will result in massive transaction volumes and this automatically will create an environment where it will be very expensive to send bitcoins.
Bitcoin is getting very centralized because many people move on centralized exchanges and centralized service providers. The only solution here might be that there will be so many users of centralized bitcoin exchanges that when two people will have a need of bitcoin withdraw, they'll send it instantly without fees from one account to another, for example from Binance to Binance or some centralized exchanges might cooperate and we will be able to transfer Bitcoins without actually making a transaction, like we do with fast money transfer services, for example a new service might be fast transfer from Binance to Coinbase.

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Quote from: icalical on March 05, 2024, 05:56:44 PM

Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

I believe there will eventually be some solutions to increasing Bitcoin fee,

Well we have layer 2 blockchain as a solution which would help bitcoin to have a faster and cheaper transaction process

It might not be perfect right now however I am quite sure that it can still be improved. Every day there are many many minds that are trying to make bitcoin better than what it is right now and I know that in no time, we will have the solutions for this.

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Thus why we should hope for bitcoin to not reach that point

The reason why the transaction fees are so high is because of
congested mempool which is not forever and besides we are now
seeing various solutions for this we just need to find the best one

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Quote from: moonie on February 12, 2024, 01:40:27 PM

What will happen when only large institutions can afford to use Bitcoin's blockchain, due to rising fees? Won't this centralize the network if most can only trade bitcoin on centralized exchanges?

It's never going to get like this in my opinion. Bitcoin/Blockchain is a technology that can always be updated/made better and that's exactly what's going on right now and has been for the last few years. Implementing things like the lightning network and Taproot are examples of what can be done to bitcoin to help with it's transaction time frames as well as costs.

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