Topic: Excessive Bitcoin fees - page 3. (Read 1438 times)

Basically, in most cases we know that trading with Bitcoin is very convenient, and it is possible very fast. However, small traders face many problems due to Bitcoin's sometimes excessive transaction free. Although we are currently successful in doing transactions with very low freebies, there are times when the number of Bitcoin transactions increases significantly. This is mainly due to the pressure of Bitcoin transactions which require high transaction fees, when you deposit your funds on an exchange or transfer from there to anywhere your fees are slightly higher. However, even if it is for a temporary period, the payment system will later become accurate and complete with lower transaction fees. So no need to stress about it if you wait a BTC transaction fees will definitely come down, and currently Bitcoin transaction fees are very low.

Network congestion comes from many reasons and generally if demand becomes bigger and exceeds capacity of the network, block size to deal with, it will cause mempool congestions and it will trigger transaction fee race. Consequently fee rates will be come higher and more expensive but if people are fully aware of what they are doing, they will avoid to be part of the endless fee rate race, and congestion will be cooled down.

Inscriptions, Mempools and Miners.

Expensive transaction fees months ago mainly come from Ordinals, BRC20 tokens, not from traditional Bitcoin users. Demand on BRC20 tokens has been tailing off with time and Bitcoin mempools returns to nearly normal. Fee rates are still expensive but much cheaper than months ago.

Being able to move your bitcoins with fee rates from 7 to 8 satoshi/vbyte is actually better.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),6m,weight

The Op is not saying he will not buy BTC or he is not holding it because transaction fee will be high in the future. He is just raising concern that now institutional traders can buy bitcoin, exchanges are also there, that when price of bitcoin gets so high, it might lead to network congestion that will make the transaction fees go higher. It is just that OP didn't remember that both institutional traders and exchanges also depend on the bitcoin blockchain. The larger the amount traded, the larger the fee.

Don't allow the fees to stop you not to use your opportunity well to hodl some BTC that will make you great in the future because, the high fees will not remain high forever and you can see that the fees has reduced down to make some people to believe that BTC gas fees will not go higher like ETH.

Even some companies that are using BTC to do other things like paying their workers with BTC know that the fees will not remain higher, which is the reason they are not move with the recent increase of BTC transactions fees.

The amount of Bitcoin moved is irrelevant and has no connection to the fees paid.
What matters is how many inputs you have and to how many addresses you pay!
Here is a detailed thread with everything you need to know:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/beginners-guide-to-transaction-fees-5251213

There are plenty of online calculators on how much you would have to pay for a transaction at a certain time, https://mempool.space/ is the best estimator for what you have to pay for a simple x, as I type 25sat/vb would be enough for a next block confirmation, so considering the size of a tx at 140vb that's around 2.50 in USD!


Limited block space, higher demand, increased fees!
It's pretty simple, everyone is anxious about the halving but they don't realize the same principles apply to the pace in the chain, with lower supply and higher demand prices go up!

If we want massive Bitcoin adoption, we can't hope for lower Bitcoin prices because massive adoption will result in massive transaction volumes and this automatically will create an environment where it will be very expensive to send bitcoins.
Bitcoin is getting very centralized because many people move on centralized exchanges and centralized service providers. The only solution here might be that there will be so many users of centralized bitcoin exchanges that when two people will have a need of bitcoin withdraw, they'll send it instantly without fees from one account to another, for example from Binance to Binance or some centralized exchanges might cooperate and we will be able to transfer Bitcoins without actually making a transaction, like we do with fast money transfer services, for example a new service might be fast transfer from Binance to Coinbase.

Well we have layer 2 blockchain as a solution which would help bitcoin to have a faster and cheaper transaction process

It might not be perfect right now however I am quite sure that it can still be improved. Every day there are many many minds that are trying to make bitcoin better than what it is right now and I know that in no time, we will have the solutions for this.

Thus why we should hope for bitcoin to not reach that point

The reason why the transaction fees are so high is because of
congested mempool which is not forever and besides we are now
seeing various solutions for this we just need to find the best one

It's never going to get like this in my opinion.  Bitcoin/Blockchain is a technology that can always be updated/made better and that's exactly what's going on right now and has been for the last few years.  Implementing things like the lightning network and Taproot are examples of what can be done to bitcoin to help with it's transaction time frames as well as costs. 

I struggle to understand how the fees are calculated and even online calculators rarely bring it down to an actual $ fee.

If some whale decided to sell 1,000 Bitcoin today in one transaction, what would the actual fee would be in dollars and cents? Can it even be estimated ahead of time?

Ordinals are just a new way of identifying individual satoshis on-chain. Using this method people self-assign special attributes to individual units of bitcoin, making NFTs. Of course, as the network caters to increasingly high-profile clientele, Bitcoin is naturally conducive maintaining this sort of 'art'. (despite the cost)

Even though it is considered by some circles to be a new innovation in blockchain technology, what we feel is that it is just uncomfortable. That's right, as you said above, if we look closely since April 2023, there has been an increase in the cost of printing Bitcoin Ordinal which has increased by up to 700% and this is also one of the triggers for increasing costs besides network congestion. .

Of course, those who make small transactions will really feel it, but even so, as task users we can only be smart, if you really want to make transactions with small fees, try setting a medium or low fee, but the risk will take a long time. process, especially when the network is busy because miners always prioritize those who charge large fees. when the transaction is made.

I believe there will eventually be some solutions to increasing Bitcoin fee, bitcoin is evolving as we have the BIP, and it looking at the history there is always improvement like how the community implemented SegWit. For what I know the recent increase in transaction fee is because the Bitcoin Ordinals trend, and if the community think the fee is getting ridiculous, there will be some solution to limit or even ban Bitcoin transaction.

One of the reason why most people believe in Bitcoin is because it is decentralized, so the one who take the decision on how Bitcoin grow and evolve is the community no the Big Company. 

Bitcoin network is way cheaper haha when it comes to comparing it with the ETH network, haha I'm not gonna make comparisons but a reference is important to provide a decent piece of information with clarity I've paid even 0.3$ for a transaction on the Bitcoin and the highest I've ever paid on BTC network fees is around 5$ hmm, it will be close to this, but in the ETH network, I've even Paird around 32$ for the single transaction even 50$ I can recall for an urgent transaction, and for now 76$ 133 gwei is transection cost haha so you can imagine how costly it is.


Wrong quote buddy, remove the last [/quote] from the post

this is not permanently happen mate and don't look at it as the fees are always that high
because you are wrong , look at it now even there is a super bullish moment yet the fees are just
doing smooth meaning congestion is already subsided .
and also it is not only for Large institution because you can still use bitcoin anytime(just
that fee in which you need to consider sometimes)

this is not apples to apples, the use of BTC is not the same as BTCCASH or BTCSV. They are different things.

A bigger block size will lower fees as supply goes up, and it achieves the origonal L1 soloution that satoshi outlines.

There was no mention of L2 or LN in the BTC white paper, but there were calculation by satoshi to show L1 could scale, by blocksize.

The people seeking to use and do use BTC is much higher than BTCCASH or BTCSV and the latter do achieve a much lower relative cost for fees.

Bigger block size means nothing useful if people don't use that bigger-sized blockchain.

Bitcoin forks are altcoins and even they have much bigger block sizes, their blocks have never been fully used by their blockchain users. Demands are smaller than maximum block sizes and it is kind of waste.

How many Bitcoin forks are there.

People were hyped and attracted to Bitcoin forks initially but with time, they realized that Bitcoin is the best.

Transaction costs will always rise and fall, no balance regarding transaction costs? In fact, it is not only large institutions that are able to use Bitcoin because there are many individual people who have done it and even I myself have been charged large fees when making transactions.

Satoshi never created a centralized bitcoin and that is not the concept of bitcoin because the development carried out on bitcoin was decentralized. The relationship with the exchanges that people use is a choice of paths and certainly cannot be said to be completely centralized. If people don't want to incur large fees then they should wait for cheaper transactions and usually when transactions are not too busy then fees will go down.

So this whole issue is a restatement of 'should we scale blocksize?'

SegWit2x was shot down. BCH market price has tanked. BSV has tanked. Though I think that is market recognition.

I argued with LK on this - that there must be some g(x) where block size gets bigger as the internet gets faster and HD space gets cheaper, which it has since 2010.

Satoshi's initial idea was to scale block size.

The 1MB cap was instituted as a stop-gap measure only.

It is clear that all the high TPS and super cheap coins run into L1 centralization issues, but normies don't get this; they just want to hear TPS high and cheap.

EOS is a demonstration where you could not keep up with the rate of increase of the blocks and so end up with centralization.

DAGs may offer some solution, but I have yet to see a convincing proof.

The immutable fact is data costs space and energy to store.

The 1MB size does ensure that decentralization is high, but reaches a crunch point where miners see fees drop off.

At some point, the block size should increase, and there is some g(x).

Where this is up for question, but when BTC does increase this, it risks losing the narrative to BCH or some other scheme, as BTC has committed to 1MB.

Luke Jr actually advocated for 1/2 MB blocks, which is why I said fine, but what is your g(x)?

There must be some, and a reasonable one could solve the fee issue.