F2Pool is directly threatening Bitcoin's future

bctmke

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Quote from: ingiltere on January 27, 2016, 01:13:40 PM

This problem is going on, they don't accept any Tx for their blocks. Can't we do anything about this situation? How can we stop these Chinese monopolists? I think they have government support, otherwise these people can't organize that type of thing. We have to find a useful way to boycott them.

There's no stopping.

You can only mitigate by getting network hash to move off of those pools and onto other pools (decentralizing).

The problem is - any smaller pool is going to find it VERY hard to attract users due to the small quantity of blocks they find (and the irregular payouts that would happen).

ingiltere

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This problem is going on, they don't accept any Tx for their blocks. Can't we do anything about this situation? How can we stop these Chinese monopolists? I think they have government support, otherwise these people can't organize that type of thing. We have to find a useful way to boycott them.

baazju

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: Prelude on December 26, 2015, 12:52:25 PM

Quote from: baazju on December 26, 2015, 11:52:42 AM

I just picked up an S7, and have about another 1TH is random miners (I know, small fish) and I am definitely going to be sticking with smaller pools. Maybe not as consistent for hitting that magical ROI.

Why try and make a quick buck and threaten bitcoin's future when you could foster it and let it grow, much greater profit long term than short term.

You'll make more by mining on Kano than you will here, which makes ROI quicker and overall BTC earned higher on Kano across the miner's lifespan. I think you mean daily payouts are less consistent, but that doesn't matter to the overall picture.

Yes, the payout is less consistent, makes it tougher for planning. But yes I will probably make more with Kano which is why I plan to mine there. I'm not sure where the "here" is you mention (F2Pool maybe?) but yes you are probably right.

Prelude

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Quote from: baazju on December 26, 2015, 11:52:42 AM

I just picked up an S7, and have about another 1TH is random miners (I know, small fish) and I am definitely going to be sticking with smaller pools. Maybe not as consistent for hitting that magical ROI.

Why try and make a quick buck and threaten bitcoin's future when you could foster it and let it grow, much greater profit long term than short term.

You'll make more by mining on Kano than you will here, which makes ROI quicker and overall BTC earned higher on Kano across the miner's lifespan. I think you mean daily payouts are less consistent, but that doesn't matter to the overall picture.

baazju

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Activity: 98

Merit: 10

I just picked up an S7, and have about another 1TH is random miners (I know, small fish) and I am definitely going to be sticking with smaller pools. Maybe not as consistent for hitting that magical ROI.

Why try and make a quick buck and threaten bitcoin's future when you could foster it and let it grow, much greater profit long term than short term.

firetreeactual

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Quote from: marvykkio on December 26, 2015, 05:47:50 AM

with everything I'm reading I'm confused even more, I wonder if I was wrong to buy 3 x S7 batch8, at least to retract my expenses.

pool only = I will never see a block.
other pools pps, you earn a pittance,
f2poll, and antpol I see that are in bad shape for too many empty blocks.

I will have to choose which pool? Cry

I'd take 3 S7s any day...I'm stuck for the moment with 4 S3s and a dino S2...but it's still fun (I don't have to pay for electricity Cool

) Given my past results on slush, they'd generate over 1BTC/month.

After absorbing all the data that's out there for the last several months, and running Slush pool for a while (which was productive and no complaints), I'm sticking for the time being with ck's solo pools with Slush for my failover.

Macbook's comments leave me somewhat in a Homer Simpson "Doh?" state of mind, and they tend, in my view, to only support what's been said.

marvykkio

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with everything I'm reading I'm confused even more, I wonder if I was wrong to buy 3 x S7 batch8, at least to retract my expenses.

pool only = I will never see a block.
other pools pps, you earn a pittance,
f2poll, and antpol I see that are in bad shape for too many empty blocks.

I will have to choose which pool? Cry

kano

legendary

Activity: 4634

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: iglasses on December 15, 2015, 09:08:15 PM

Please feel free to delete my posts since they don't fit your agenda.

Lulz - only you can do that

iglasses

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Activity: 1148

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Please feel free to delete my posts since they don't fit your agenda.

kano

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Activity: 4634

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: iglasses on December 15, 2015, 08:57:03 PM

Quote from: kano on December 15, 2015, 08:53:47 PM

Quote from: iglasses on December 15, 2015, 03:50:59 PM

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

Any peer 2 peer network is vulnerable to 50% control.
Basic knowledge.

It's even mentioned in the original sotashi document ... go read it Tongue

I'm quite familiar with it. It's not my fault if you are so blinded by rage you are unable (or unwilling) to get what I meant.

Rage? Zero.

Your statement is simply a Bitcoin 101 statement that clearly too few people realise including f2pool

iglasses

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Quote from: kano on December 15, 2015, 08:53:47 PM

Quote from: iglasses on December 15, 2015, 03:50:59 PM

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

Any peer 2 peer network is vulnerable to 50% control.
Basic knowledge.

It's even mentioned in the original sotashi document ... go read it Tongue

I'm quite familiar with it. It's not my fault if you are so blinded by rage you are unable (or unwilling) to get what I meant.

And for the record I am actually SOLO mining right now, with almost no hope of finding a block. So you could say that I am doing more to purely support the network than most people (unless you know a lot of other people burning 15kw for nothing)!

kano

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Activity: 4634

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: iglasses on December 15, 2015, 03:50:59 PM

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

Any peer 2 peer network is vulnerable to 50% control.
Basic knowledge.

It's even mentioned in the original sotashi document ... go read it Tongue

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: iglasses on December 15, 2015, 03:50:59 PM

If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

And this is why a working consensus that is followed by everyone (ideal) is important or it crumbles.

iglasses

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If BTC is this vulnerable it is worthless.

MCHouston

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 500

Where am I?

I am already there, I do not mine on any pool that is over 10% of network hash rate. Remember this is supposed to be decentralized, if we all jump on the same pool that is centralized.

p3yot33at3r

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: macbook-air on December 13, 2015, 08:36:19 PM

You can see there are only four records for AntPool’s block 388238 (poor block propagation). And the time difference between 388251 and 388252 is very small.

An SPV pool blaming another SPV pool for it's empty nlocks....... Roll Eyes

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: macbook-air on December 13, 2015, 08:36:19 PM

Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on December 13, 2015, 11:08:44 AM

Quote from: macbook-air on December 12, 2015, 06:30:27 PM

FYI, we have just updated the pool software to reduce the number of empty blocks. The effectiveness is yet to be evaluated, but I think it should help a lot.

Since this announcement, there have been 6 empty blocks added to the chain. None of which came from f2pool.

BW.com - 2 of their 11 blocks were empty
AntPool - 4 of their 21 blocks were empty

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

So, at least on the surface in the past 16 and a half hours or so, whatever f2pool did appears to have greatly reduced their empty blocks. It still doesn't excuse the SPV mining... but at least in this short timeframe it appears to be a step in the right direction.

We have two empty blocks in the past few hours. Investigation has revealed that:

For block 388239, which was found at 23:23:45Z, was due to the previous block by AntPool failed to send out their block in time. Our nodes did not receive the complete block data of 388238 until 17 seconds later, or 23:24:02Z;

For block 388252, which was found at 00:33:02Z, was due to our extreme luck. We found this block only 1 second after the previous block by bitclubpool.

http://poolbench.antminer.link/ has more timing data. You can see there are only four records for AntPool’s block 388238 (poor block propagation). And the time difference between 388251 and 388252 is very small.

You have improved and I for one do appreciate this. If we can get antpool to follow suit we could really cut this empties down a lot.

As everyone knows Bitfury may be ready to put 200ph on line over the next 10 days. I need go back to see but I believe they have quite a few empties as it stands now.

With F2pool and hopefully Antpool reducing empties any Bitfury problems will be lessened.

We really will all need to pull together as the ½ ing is coming price of coins will need to be over 600usd for many miners to stay in the game. So a ton of infighting between all the pools miners and developers will not help price.

macbook-air

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Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on December 13, 2015, 11:08:44 AM

Quote from: macbook-air on December 12, 2015, 06:30:27 PM

FYI, we have just updated the pool software to reduce the number of empty blocks. The effectiveness is yet to be evaluated, but I think it should help a lot.

Since this announcement, there have been 6 empty blocks added to the chain. None of which came from f2pool.

BW.com - 2 of their 11 blocks were empty
AntPool - 4 of their 21 blocks were empty

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

So, at least on the surface in the past 16 and a half hours or so, whatever f2pool did appears to have greatly reduced their empty blocks. It still doesn't excuse the SPV mining... but at least in this short timeframe it appears to be a step in the right direction.

We have two empty blocks in the past few hours. Investigation has revealed that:

For block 388239, which was found at 23:23:45Z, was due to the previous block by AntPool failed to send out their block in time. Our nodes did not receive the complete block data of 388238 until 17 seconds later, or 23:24:02Z;

For block 388252, which was found at 00:33:02Z, was due to our extreme luck. We found this block only 1 second after the previous block by bitclubpool.

http://poolbench.antminer.link/ has more timing data. You can see there are only four records for AntPool’s block 388238 (poor block propagation). And the time difference between 388251 and 388252 is very small.

os2sam

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Think for yourself

Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on December 13, 2015, 11:08:44 AM

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

How full/non empty were they?

jonnybravo0311

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Mine at Jonny's Pool

Quote from: macbook-air on December 12, 2015, 06:30:27 PM

FYI, we have just updated the pool software to reduce the number of empty blocks. The effectiveness is yet to be evaluated, but I think it should help a lot.

Since this announcement, there have been 6 empty blocks added to the chain. None of which came from f2pool.

BW.com - 2 of their 11 blocks were empty
AntPool - 4 of their 21 blocks were empty

f2pool - 0 of their 14 blocks were empty

So, at least on the surface in the past 16 and a half hours or so, whatever f2pool did appears to have greatly reduced their empty blocks. It still doesn't excuse the SPV mining... but at least in this short timeframe it appears to be a step in the right direction.

Topic: F2Pool is directly threatening Bitcoin's future (Read 8207 times)