Topic: Fair Profit for Coin Founders - page 2. (Read 4525 times)

Seriously?  That's amazing.  I really had no idea.  If that's the case then why don't the people launch a coin for the people. 

I mean a miner coin. A coin that benefits the small miners the most and not the guys with $50,000 rigs. 

I have an idea for a feature for a coin that would really help the little guy - level the playing field a bit.  Cause most miners are little guys.

And if you all can take care of your own coin I'll just pay for it and launch it for you and that's fine, I'll take just 1%.

As I said, release it open source. If a coin dies, then it means it wasn't worth it anyway. If someone wants to see something succeed then they'll put all the hard work and graft into it. If they want any returns on it, then they'll need to think about how they're going to get paid for it before hand. I.e selling clients or mining software just for instance. The way that most alt-coins gather theirs by pre-mining, just stinks of a scam.

In the only two successful coins (BTC & LTC) to date bounties have come from users, miners, coinholders.  Someone wants X done but they lack the skills for X.  They find out a lot of other people wants X done as well.  They pool resources and offer a bounty for someone to complete X.

Lie all you want but the blockchain doesn't lie.  There was no premine in Bitcoin.  Satoshi published the paper nearly a year before the client.  The Genesis block (block 0) was worth 50 BTC but due to a bug in the mainline client it is unspendable.  Bitcoin remained at difficulty 1 (only because it can't go any lower) for the first year due to lack of interest.  Anyone with just about any computer could have mined 5%+ or the available coins in the first year just by running the client ... almost nobody did.

So where is this so called "premine"?

Without the devs these coins die.  Where do you think bounties come from?  Who's gonna work for free to support and improve a coin? 

Amin, brother.  That's what I'm saying.  Too much hating going on toward the devs.  These devs provide coins for people so they can make money while at the beach.  That's the reward for miners so where's the reward for devs wince they're doing all the work?

Support? Nah. I expect it to be decentralized and released open source. Although I probably should look into the cost of money, much like the cost of politics, no one really thinks about it as an object but more an idea. But I don't think that devs or anyone else for that matter should be able to make money out of money. There's no point in that.

I don't think that Dev's should be paid simply for outlining the basis of money, especially when most alt-coins are simply bitcoin clones. If they wish it, they could charge for the distribution of the client, which protects their software...or lines of code they have written. Provided it's something new and not just a rehash of other peoples hard work.

The whiners expect a dev to release a coin, then support it, and get nothing out of it.  Any dev that doesn't pre-mine at leave 1/10th of a percent is an idiot IMHO.

thats total BS.  The creator of Bitcoin pre-mined a ton.  Also a little bird told me GPU mining on Litecoin was available to a select few very early on.

But miners aren't exactly breaking their backs out there, doing "all the work."

And they're mining in their self interest and most have their hardware paid off in the first few months.  They leave it on and go about their lives.  The electricity is paid for in the equation..

You make it sound like miners are coal mining.  Lol

Fact is, if not for developers, miners wouldn't have such opportunities and if you want newer and better coins to come out then there must be some good incentive, and it seems like some people are communistic about this, they think devs shouldn't get anything.

Let's get real.  Let's be fair.

Most of the coins I see here are clones of Bitcoin... unless you've designed it from the ground up, in reality you have done no work. Therefore it's the miners who are mining the coins, confirming the transactions and so on. The 'creator' has done quite literally nothing, except hoping to cash in on a coin that offers nothing new... that's just wrong.

Litecoin is a bit different on the other hand, if they have developers working on it to make it different from Bitcoin, then good for them, they can feel free to ask for donations or use whatever charging system they want. However the market...as we see here... won't bear anyone trying to do pump and dump schemes. There shouldn't 'be' an incentive to create a currency. The currency should be 'needed' to fit a market in order to better facilitate trade (one of the reasons why Bitcoin has took off so well). Each incentive offered will devalue the currency because it then means that those who are genuinely interested in the currency won't be able to take part because they don't have super computers, therein destroying the 'decentralized' nature of a coin. (This also applies to Bitcoin). Most people don't 'have' huge computers with six graphic cards, asics, and so on and so forth so there's no real prospect of them getting involved with mining. This is one of the things that has excluded me from Bitcoin as there's no way for me to get involved.

Google offered its search engine for free. It still IS free. Google also offer another service called 'advertising', which businesses then pay for. Thereby a symbiotic relationship where one activity provides for the other. This goes back to my earlier point about not actually doing anything. Google on the other hand designed their code from the ground up. If a new currency creator did the same, then sure, they could try to find a way to monetize on that, but monetizing directly through premining, effectively ruins the whole point of getting a currency out there. Of course, you could easily just apply a merchants 'tax'...but again with that decentralized theme... the more decentralized a currency, the less profit you will be able to make because the less work you are doing.

How is it that the miners are the only ones doing all the work??

The fact that a widely successful litecoin had developers begging for support is an indicator of how broken the incentive structure is.

Imagine if Google has to beg for funds for every piece of work they had to do.

Quite frankly, you 'could' build in a charge to the transaction fees...but that would be a tax and you're not going to get anywhere with that either. You are asking...other people to effectively mint your coin yet pre-mining to give yourself an extreme advantage over others only to hoard the 'wealth' to cash in much later. This is not how money works and is simply against the whole concept of money. Quite frankly, you shouldn't be doing this for profit anyway. Money is about trust and the moment you start putting profit into the equation, you are going to lose that trust.

The only ones that should earn any money out of a coin are miners. Why? Because they're the ones actually doing the work. It may not seem like it if you have invest a couple hundred bitcoins in marketing and so on, but the fact of the matter is, you didn't need to spend that amount, you could have just launched the coin without much fanfare at all, just a post on a forum such as this one. The miners then have to exert or invest energy and time into making more coins to make it more valuable. If you are hoarding coins, then you are artificially inflating the value of the coin, in order to dump it for a larger payout later.

Money isn't about making profit, it is about exchanging wealth. So instead of buying two oxen for twenty six chickens and a coup...which is a logistical nightmare.... you're simply trading two oxen for 15 ixcoin, which so happens to be exchangeable for twenty six chickens and a coup, which if not immediately available at that market, you can travel to another market and get those chickens with very little added expenditure.

At least that's my two cents.

If you're going to premine, feel free, just be prepared to have to exchange it sharpish to encourage trade.

Interesting mark, I never thought of a promoter as I've always hated sales and been horrible at them.  But I have been told regarding stocks that if I believe in a stock that I could sell anybody on it.  But to me that was never sales - making someone see the truth about how great something is to me is not promoting or sales its Simply the truth and the truth is easy to sell.

I don't think I could pump and dump like that but yeah, there are a few coins I really believe in that I tell people about everywhere I go.  Problem is - right now the masses are skeptical of alt coins cause they either don't get them or they hear about the bad reputation.  

I'll still consider launching my own coin but I've decided to use this feedback as the consensus of the general public and not launch CatholicCoin and not even OrphanCoin although I personally liked both.  I'm gonna wait for a coin to come to me that feels just right in very way.

Until then I'm gonna keep accumulating devcoins and ixCoins.  I think one of those 2 will make it big.  I'm convinced of that.  But people don't believe in small things, they want to buy something that's already up there and there's little money to be made in those coins which have already ran so much.

Thanks for your input, mark.

Vlad, since what you apparently bring to the table is promotion of coins, forget about making more new coins and just put your efforts into promoting existing coins that you already own some of.

If your promoting skills are good you should be able to pretty much buy up a bunch of any coin you can get a good deal on then promote it increasing its value, take profit, then rinse and repeat either with the same coin if it still seems a good deal or with whatever coin next looks underprixed compared to how much your promotion skills can boost it to.

-MarkM-

Lol, ok, the last part got me laughing.

You're being too pessimistic.  Look around, show me a coin launched in the last 3 months who did the things you're expecting me to do.  None have. It's a work in progress.  If people had that kind of money to get that much done in such a short amount of time they'd probably be starting a bigger business not risking it on these alt coins.

I will definitely give it serious thought - I have plenty of time to spend with my kids right now - my worry is that if I start a new job I will be literally working 16 hour days for months to come and that would become a problem.

But at the same time I don't like being led by fear and the unknown of what might be.  

And you say I'm gonna take half the profits after 3 months, you're sounding biased.  It's ZERO% for one coin and 20% for the other coin and that's after supporting both coins with both, time and money for the previous 3 months.  I hardly see that as excessive.

If anyone thinks that's too much I'll point you to coins treading on exchanges which give miners way less of the coins/profits and have not nearly the kind of charity work and transperancy I'm offering.  If that means nothing then the alt community deserves more pump and dump schemes and coins which only serve to enrich one person and care nothing about anybody else.  

The way I see it, I'm very much the opposite from most developers and seeing how most here don't trust any developers that tells me that's a good thing.  Sounds like a lot of scsmmers have come though which is probably why everyone is so negative and quick to flame-on, and blow people up around here.

I've got to weigh my options cause this would be a huge undertaking time-wise but I should have a decision made soon.  And I'm still checking out total costs cause that may be an issue after a few months.

A couple of more things.

Your jobless and semi broke.  You have 2 small children, and can't afford to put much money into the development of your coin.  You aren't a programmer, and your trying to launch 2 clone coins at once.  You don't have plans unless by some miracle your coins are still standing 3 months later, your going to take half the profits from the miners, and you think somehow your coins are going to outperform the other 99% of the daily alts being released.  And to make matters worse your going to put a target on your coin by giving it a religious title, and you expect someone to set up merged mining for it, possibly for $30/hr??

Do you have many plans on creating stores to buy goods with your coins?  Are you already hitting up big businesses to see if they will accept Catholic Coin as a method of payment?  I still say you should have gone with "Itchy and Scratchy Coins".  "It's like money, but more fun".

Take the spare time you have, spend it with your kids.  All your going to end up doing is using up all your time, and losing everything your pouring into this venture. 


1 thing you might have going for your coin.  I can see the ads now.  "For the naughty catholic girl in you, Sextoys.com now accepting Catholic Coins, 30% of the proceeds going back to the Catholic Church"

So let me clarify.  For the first 90 days: for both coins:  miners would get 50% and members of this forum would get the entire second half (50%).  Basically anyone who posts on these coins' threads would be eligible for any and all the payouts.  There may be some rule made there to prevent spamming just to get your name in the pot.


I don't know, maybe post once per day for a week for every weekly drawing or something like that.  Or maybe we'll do weekly big lotteries and then some daily drawing.  And anybody can choose to kick a % of their winning in a pot for bounties but that's not in any way necessary. I'm just not sure how I'll fund development - I'm not sure how much I can commit out of pocket at this point but the odds of these 2 coins getting killed by an attack is so great that I'll figure something out if they do survive.


The rationale is this: I'm not gonna call the Catholic Church or an orphanage and offer them coins when I don't know if these coins will be dead next week.  That's humiliating.  I figure if they survive 3 months then I can call around and not be so embarrassed or worried about an imminent 51% attack.

Good questions.

If I don't do them both at once I'll be accused of using a charity coin to launch a profit coin.  I don't want that so I'll work harder to launch them both.  I'm hoping with the charity coin ill get some help, but who knows.

The charity coin: OrphanCoin, I won't get anything, not a single coin.  I think 50% to orphanages and 50% to miners is the most fair way to go.

CatholicCoin would be my coin, where I try to make a profit down the line.  I know, it's a church coin why is it for profit?  Cause its gonna take work and money and besides, any coin I launch I want to give a part to charity so it doesn't really matter.  

But with this coin 30% will go to the Catholic Church, 20% to me and 50% to miners.  I know, that's so much but that's nothing unless the coin makes it and if it does a portion of that will go to other workers, bounties, marketing, admin, general overhead, etc, so the actual profit would be much smaller than the 20%.

And to prove I'm not in this thing for the short term - every single coin in the first 3 months, so 100% of the coins that should be coming to me or charity, will go straight back into the alt coin community via this forum.  I'll give it all away randomly, with no preferences or bias, to anyone posting on these boards, even those who hate these coins will be in on the drawings, lotteries or whatever fair and random way I can come up with to give all these coins away.

So then, the only thing left for me is the long term - if these coins survive, after 90 days I would then start to see something.  But meanwhile I'll be working around the clock for free to support these coins and since there's no coins coming to me I guess I'll have to pay out of pocket for bounties etc unless people wanna pitch in. I don't know how much I can pay out of pocket so I'm not making any exact promises there but I'll do what I can to help these 2 coins develop and grow.

Lol, is Catholic Coin your charity coin?  Or your I want to make money coin? 

And it's funny people who have a programming background , with no kids ect don't try to launch 2 coins at the same time because of all the work involved.  Are you really sure you want to develop 2 coins at once?   Your effectively splitting your mining audience which is doubling your chance of a 51% attack.

1 more question.  For your charity coin.  Do 100% of all mined coins go to charity?  Or do 50% go to miners and 50% go to charity?   Or is it 50% to miners, 25% to you, and 25% to charity?