Topic: Fiat and crypto and stock is bs, but property is real (Read 1103 times)

Let’s not be picky, so you want to argue the underlying cost is high, also the coin is still there, sure property also never goes away it’s just immovable. About the underlying cost, what’s there to say, does it mean the POW itself on the bitcoin protocol have no underlying cost? I’m not sure how to calculate the cost, but I can tell the POW itself is highly cost intensive!

Now what again. You want to say the coin has value and make you a net (positive) income, after minus the underlying cost, it all depend too, when you buy it at very low price, I have no doubt about the big income you could enjoy, I can’t say much when you are buying high and expecting you wouldn’t goes down like ftx or mt. Gox, or Michael Saylor and the likes, a ponzi that’s dangerous to inexperienced and non financial savvy tech savvy, idk it sound to me like a heavy mental gymnastics at best and it lead to no where, a losing endeavour to think further, I would assume there isn’t money to be made in bitcoin, I know some guy tell me they bought a super car with bitcoin profit, that’s they have made it I’m not him I can’t copy what he did, I’m also not Warren Buffett or Elon Musk or Steve Jobs or any superhuman alike, I can’t copy what they did, but why should I be brother by impressing them at all, it sound like a trap and actually lead to the Newton Isaac tragic at best.
After some ten or so years, what’s about the guy who bought super car with bitcoin again, after ten years are they still relevant? I don’t think so. What’s about the bitcoin after the ten years or so, may be become another satoshi again, but what’s the point then? Well the only appeal to me is I can be the house in this ponzi, because being the house give me a upper hand on being the favourable position, with bitcoin I’m the absolutely house in this cruel world, with stock I’m not the house but just a cattle to be slaughtered, so it’s naturally I would choose to be the house to avoid getting legally screwed my entire life. Of course many people can’t see the point of being their own house and mind their own everything which is puzzling.

I like this thoughts tbh, your assumption on government being a counterparty risk, also risk of getting vandalism by third party. The latter is the less of the concern as they’re easy to deal with, gun could make them leave easy. Well government seizure might be one nasty risk to deal with, it goes the same with gold too where government can seize it, is the bitcoin really in-confiscate-able as you though it to be? Government can’t seize the bitcoin? Could the internet seize the bitcoin? Or could the computer itself seize the bitcoin? When I think again, to run bitcoin, it require a computer an internet, electricity, and working mining software, well tbh all of them are counterparty risk too, but you might say human are greater risk than anything else mentioned above, I have no doubt about it, yet all of them are invented by human itself, so does it mean it’s less riskier? Not really true, I would insist on my belief, property despite having a single point of failure of possibly government seizure, same to the gold easily seizure-able, it’s still a very sound "safe haven", it would require some world wars for both gold and property seizure to take place which is what everybody else hoping for, remember gold seizure act of 1933 May 1, it’s a civil wars... btw bitcoin is still untested whether it could survive a world wars and seizure since there isn’t Third World Wars yet, and it was invented after the world wars one and world wars two, also the civil wars, I highly doubt bitcoin could survive the Third World Wars, don’t quote me on this you can argue to death how bitcoin can survive the wars, because it’s decentralised blah, it’s very much untested since it is just existed for ten years, some guy are already very confident it’s very rugged very strong and totally immune to all counterparty risk. Well there is no doubt the price of bitcoin is soaring to a point, it’s simply absurd and mind totally blown out of the planet, let’s see again what is the question again, so...

Property can be seized, bitcoin can’t be seized, I would say, this is pretty much untested. I know manny guys call bitcoin is better and not seizable, well, it’s their thought, there seem to be some truth on it, but to make bitcoin not seize-able, you would still need to make sure it is not 51% attack proof,  may be not so much when world wars took place and many miners are broken and many computer are non functional, and when internet is broken, that would be the moment it would become much easier to 51% attack on bitcoin, well a wishful thinking?

Sure, I also believe a lot of people are living happy ending life, there is no bs they goes to school they get good grade and they married to perfect 10/10 wife, have perfect 10/10 child with one boy and one girl, and they got a high paying jobs and benefit, they also buy very big house, everyday they come home from work and greet their little kids with happy on the face... very important here, I must highlight this again and again also they all make money on stock market, what? You loss money? Not all guy loss money look at me I make money from it! You should look at my happy ending and get impressed!!! they all having happy ending life, they’re all normal, happy ending, also they think house is risky, also they’re impressive to all girl and to all the house, also they take an excessive amount of loan and get into the gambling and never get screwed and happy ending, they even beat house in the casino in Las Vegas, they even beat the Warren Buffett and earn the reputation and become the richest man, they also have happy ending and beat the Bull Gates and Steve Jobs and happy ending, they also happy ending forever, everything fine and good, happy ending ok rich get richer poor get poorer, status quo on happy ending, Newton Isaac happy ending never loss on south sea bubble but earn the happy ending full of his descendants.

Why would stressing out yourself on making choice in between stocks/crypto over real estate if you could really have both? Yes, this might involved huge amount of capital to deal with but
i could say that all of these things could potentially give out that long term profits that you are aiming for.For people who do say that other side is BS aside from real estate then its
their own point of view but for those people who had been dealing with other things which they are still making profits then they would really be saying their own personal perception
and opinion which we could say that it would really be different to each other.

I agree that it's rarely bull market but when it is, it breaks above everything else. We need to be realistic about the approach we make and I believe that it's longer on the bear market and stays low, but then it reaches to a new all time high and then it will go down to a higher bottom than where we are today.

This is why my calculation is based on reaching to 100k+ next bull run, and then when we drop it will be somewhere above 50k when we hit the bottom of that bear market. So, we need to be calculating how much we can spare at this moment because all the money that you spend on bitcoin today will be able to make a lot of profit for you in the future.

That's not true mate, why are you saying that all stock investors are losing? There are plenty of successful investors who made a lot of money. I also like investing in real estate and think it's a good addition to any portfolio. But I would never sell all my stocks to put it into a property. Just look at the average return of stock over the last 20 years. There is no reason to avoid stocks all together. Investing into a single property is much more risky than investing into cryptos or stocks. It all comes down to the location of your property and in which condition it is. A newly build or fully renovated house will bring you 25% more rent, same goes for a central location compared to a far away house or apartment. Not every property will make you rich. And if there is a unforseen problem with the roof or heating for example you might be forced to sell it if you can't afford the repairs.

Heh, I know exactly what crypto is, I don’t care what your perception on it, I have my own set of belief that’s totally contradicting with your belief. I don’t force you to believe on what I would tell you, you can choose to ignore it at your convenience.

In short crypto is the same as "selling over priced goods, it’s same as luxury bags you can bought on the antique shop." But the interesting observation is that some guy believe it’s a vehicle to make quickly money because the price goes up and they can make profit, they blindly think they can make money without selling anything, (pump and dump crypto is not selling anything!! dude). And the guy even goes as far as lessoning you on the price goes up because it has value on it, not worthless, not a scam, and you can’t prove them wrong, lmao that’s so interesting and delusional.

I would rather not make any prejudice with this guy, but I would explain in depth of my own understanding about crypto... to see the full picture on how and why crypto have the price it have today, and it’s very important! Knowing the why it is very important to see through the full picture! despite knowing all the why and how, I would still wouldn’t buy any amount of it, Warren Buffett vibes on wouldn’t pay $15 for all bitcoin lol, it’s sound like easy money isn’t it? then it must definitely is a trap!!

How did crypto get to the price today? You said it’s a manipulation and nobody is paying for the price to be this high? Non sense! That’s very sophisticated process, which make the good use of what AI robot can do. You said AI robot is useless and an obsolete technology on birth, but today you will see we have put a good use of AI robot to make money, rolf, just to prove you wrong. The market maker are using AI robot to make buy and sell the crypto to themselves (aka the insider trading), they do not loss money or make money on buy and sell to themselves, but they successful in making the crypto price to massively move to a certain direction, up or down!

"The market market buy and sell among themselves, they do not earn or loss money, but the price of  their crypto fly through the roof!!! Other greedy guy see the price and jump into it to FOMO buy, only to end up losing money."

"I have an Apple, I buy the Apple from myself at $1, later I sell the Apple again to myself at $1.2, and set a price tag to $1.4, next I buy the Apple from myself again for $1.4, and sell again the Apple to myself for $2, the Apple now has a price tag of $2, so how much did I earn from the trade? When I buy and sell the Apple among myself, I made exactly zero profit, but the price of Apple increased to $2 from $1"

...apply the same logic into the crypto market and... voila...an insider trading is achieved, the price of crypto soar very high...

Yeah, it sound like I’m making some very impossible assumption. "How can market maker succeed into buy and sell among themselves? when there is thousands of buy order book from other retail, market maker has to buy up every one of them before reaching theirs order, that make zero sense, they’re impossible to buy and sell among themselves to pull off insider trading!!" Well it clearly is sounding very impossible, that’s very hard but when AI robot added into the picture, it can make some very interesting changes, many people refuse to believe AI robot are highly useful to manipulate the crypto price to help market maker make money! That’s cringe! But here, I talk a lot of non sense to you, what’s the point, so how exactly AI robot can do it!? To make money!? For market maker!? That’s full of shit! Just tell me the answer already! I don’t have the time to read all your bs and all the ranting!
Sure why not!? AI robot work on crypto market that’s also all due to greedy guy has totally no idea how it work, they paid the price for being greedy and not understand how AI robot work on trading, while the market maker make money. AI robot although is stupidly useless by many common folk, yet it’s extremely godsend to the computer geek, they wrote code for the AI robot to be so good it read the price order every millisecond, everyday nonstop reading, they wait for the existing price order to get filled from the price order book, before they began the buying their own sell order, yup that sound like a joke...buying your own sell order you said?lolz? AI robot is very good for boring repetitive task like this, they wait for the sell order placed by another guy to get filled, as soon as that happens the AI robot quickly grab the opportunity and buy their own sell order which is just queued next to it immediately, when the AI robot buy his own sell order, they do not earn or loss money yet they successful in pumping the crypto price through the roof, of course it take time to wait for the opportunity, that’s also why AI robot are waiting day after day just to get to manipulate the price, sure it’s not easy, human trader is simply unable to pull this off as they required sleep, many guy simply give up, time is money! That make sense even for AI robot! So you ask, how does knowing all of this help you to make money again? When the time is good, AI robot success in buy their own sell order while pump the price though the roof, greedy guy who check the price frequently get panic and FOMO into buying the crypto in hope to make money, the AI robot then, quickly dump the bag into the greedy guy and exit the market! This practice has been used on stock market for years, and they’re proven working mechanisms, also property developer buying and selling new launched property among themselves just like what blackrock did. while a lot of greedy crackhead traders stupidly think only price goes up they can get in and make some killing money while not knowing they get manipulated into FOMO! That’s so funny rolf. Make money first! Contribute to the society?! Invest in good company and benefit?! Rolf! Idiot believe in actually helping shape the world by investing. We all just care about make money, not care about helping anyone else! They pay for my lunch money rolf!

Should you care about crypto market and the high price tag it has on your pc screen? Well I do encourage you to completely ignore it for your own well being, there is generally nothing you can obtain from getting yourselves involved. But but but, ethereum price is very high, I can’t ignore it, I want to make money badly out of it, the price would soar and I made money... that’s quite naive seriously,  the high price of ethereum is the direct result of many AI robot buy and sell among themselves, none of the AI robot made money when the price soar through the roof since all of them buy their own sell order, when you as a human trader FOMO into the price movement, expect yourselves to get dump on and loss money, making money out of it is a wishful thinking at best! Yeah they’re preying on you human trader to fall into this trap and make money out of you, human is just a delicious cattle to be slaughtered for profit, just with AI robot, very soon AI robot to rule the entire world while all this useless human one by one killing themselves! Make money out of what you said? Dead people become the profit for the AI robot!? That’s terrible! We can’t stop it, everybody die! This world is insane, we need to wipe out, too many bad actor... good luck on complaining to all the malpractice, there’s nothing you can do about it, you’re just a useless human being that’s also very helpless, can’t save yourselves also can’t save anyone else cringe! Just kys already rolf! But but but didn’t you said "selling over priced goods, it’s same as luxury bags you can bought on the antique shop.", how does all of this related??? I’m confused! When you connect all the dots together, AI robot... FOMO... human trader... insider trading..buying to yourselves selling to yourselves...acting drama like a tv drama...contribute to world... yup, all of them added up and you can come to a final conclusion, they’re all bs and manipulation and selling useless goods at high price tag and it’s legal by laws, people are buying it for no reason... also it’s not illegal...not a ponzi...not even investing for helping the world lolz! Just garbage and all trash, fake dream and goal, scam!

To be fair, fiat is still king at the moment, and we would be in trouble without it.

But I disagree with you saying crypto is better than real estate, so far, real estate is considered the best investment, even more than gold. Regarding profitability, real estate may not equal crypto, but in terms of safety, crypto can never be compared to real estate. A good investment is one that is weighed against both risk and return.
Most people invest in cryptocurrencies with the expectation of making a high return with a small initial capital, but when the goal is reached, people will also convert it into gold or real estate. That's true, it is okay to risk a small amount of money, but when it is a large amount of money, it is another matter.

Putting your ideals to others is bs too.

I can't imagine how you could say those things if you needed fiat to buy properties or to maintain those properties. Fiat is the currency that is still needed if you want to buy products, services, or even properties nowadays, you can't deny that fact. Cryptocurrency is much better in your properties investment, in my opinion, high volatility means high profits in the long run.

Or maybe you couldn't see it or you're just ignoring that fact because you've lost a lot in the past bear markets.

OP, if you mean in terms of actual physical existence, then yeah, fiat, crypto and stock, all of them are bias and the property is real but if you mean in terms of ownership, then the only real thing here is crypto.

The government can seize your assets, stocks, fiat, and property if you do something wrong and mess up with them. Just one piece of paper with some lines written on it and your house is not your property anymore.
But how can anyone seize your bitcoins? There is just no fucking way for that to happen. So, yeah, this is the real one!
During the war, your property can get destroyed, your cash can burn during the fire, your fiat and stock can be seized but your bitcoin can stay with you (you can memorize your private key and no one can get this info nor delete it from you nor seize your brain).

Reminded by this topic, I went ahead and checked what's the sale prices of houses in my area, and what's the rent prices look like, and I have to say it's really not worth it, not in the long run at all. Companies are where it's at, because if the company you own do not go down, then it's going to keep making you profit and the more you invest the bigger you could get. Of course you could also bankrupt, but it's not even close how much you could make with crypto and stocks compared to houses.

If you own a house, you have a "safe" investment, but the income you could make is x10 higher with others which is why it never made any sense to me at all to own a house.

Well, "it's written on a paper" but at the same time it's hard to find someone selling your house and getting the money for it, without actually owning your house right? The paper you get saying you own that house is not there to prove that you own that house, it's there to make sure nobody else could prove it's their house, you basically block everyone else from doing it, not to just do it yourself.

I would say that scammers on crypto world are much worse, they could do all kinds of fake stuff, I once saw someone trying to sell test net money as mainnet one, 300 BNB on testnet, as the real one, and get the money, things are much wilder here for sure, and that's why some think it's riskier.

Assets could be used to bring in steady income. But most people tend to go and purchase luxury goods which are mostly liabilities as their value decreases over time. Hence, why rich folks tend to acquire and have more assets than liabilities among their portfolios.
Cryptocurrency, rightly being called an asset for the virtual space is gaining more and more attention and popularity and I think the financial freedom it brings is what drives people to acquire cryptocurrencies.

I think real estate investments, if done wisely could actually bring in a lot of return on investments.

Is it true that property or land, only increases in value? I heard it last time on one celebrity when she was asked if what assets she was investing. If it is then there is no point of waiting for it to dip like in cryptos and stocks, but it will be better to buy them as early as possible. We still can save up if we are good at negotiating with the seller.

I think diversifying doesn't always mean that we will now cut the risk but it will still depend on the assets that you are picking. If it's a scam and you invest on different scam projects, you just elevate your risk there rather than minimizing them. This is why I think less good assets is still better and less stressful to manage.

I was going to agree with you but then read rat03gopoh's comment — after all even your ownership of property is just your name written on paper, just like your holding of shares.

Although, changing of ownership is dependent on medium — house ownership, share market, crypto. Crypto being easiest of them all to lose ownership, in case key/mnemonic is known by someone else.

There isn’t much to say what’s to come next, I’m not a traveller or prophet, none of them can be regard as truth. Btw the time is today market is absolutely savage and guy today are insane and brutal, I know a lot of guys has move from stock market to crypto en mass, they’re expert traders, they wouldn’t have any mercy on taking your money on any given chance, I can sense the crypto market is now a full blown stock market with all sort of savage and scammer and unreasonable guy, I just wish guy to be careful when they having FOMO on the instant price movement, you wouldn’t know they’re behind 101 hft trading robot(s) that would liquidate any of your open cut loss orders to take your money, I know exactly how nasty is the stock market today that’s completely money grab and blood thirsty and all, none of the FOMO would give you a chance to make some profit, you would be lucky to FOMO into it and quit the trades totally unharmed, survival of the fittest! the target price I provide here is just to give some guidance to what you can expect within the year or month btc price could move, if the price move a lot more than normal, going absolutely parabolic and turning you into going FOMO, check the price with my price and think again whether you’re fine to going FOMO in and loss your money.

I have loss quite a few friends who kill themselves on the subprime property crashes, also stock market crashes, some are also depressed or on life support. I’m glad to be the few survivors on this savage world. I don’t know about who you’re but I wouldn’t shy on giving some life saving tips any time to anyone.

As always food is still number one priority in life, missing out on some trades is fine, but without food and you could starving to dead, you wouldn’t going to have the energy left to make the next trades. Some trader might starve to died, that’s what to be expected, satoshi even acknowledge loss bitcoin make everyone else bitcoin slightly valuable, the dead guy can no longer sell their bitcoin thus enrich us by a little.

Some info on gold price and market cap
Total unearthed gold is 2.5b ounces.
2.5 billion ounces is $2.93trillion at $1172
2.5b ounces is $4.5trillion at $1800
2.5b ounces is $5.18trillion at $2072(ATH)

Some info on btc price and market cap
21m btc by $68k is $1.4trillion
21m btc by $100k is $2.1trillion
21m btc by $200k is $4.2trillion
21m btc by $245k is $5.18trillion

Some important non financial advices
You sell gold, you are the house
Bank sell paper gold, bank are the house
You sell bitcoin, you are the house
Elon sell Tesla, Elon is the house
Business sell share, business is the house
House always win, you can’t beat the house in a casino also irl. Don’t want to kill yourselves? Don’t take excessive loan to impress(express) girl or try to beat the house in the casino, don’t let emotions get the best out of you. Nobody care if you dead tomorrow by kys, it mean no value loss to anyone, if you kys due to Tesla pump and dump, Elon have the last laugh to the bank while you end up kys.

I'd say everything is bs, except for crypto. Well, not really crypto but Bitcoin (yes I'm a Bitcoin maxi). FIAT can be printed without limits, get devalued by inflation or confiscated, stocks are volatile af and any company can go bust too. RE can be confiscated too, plus you have to pay land/house tax in many countries and if you don't, it will again be taken from you by the government.

Bitcoin is the only true value - it cannot be confiscated, destroyed like paper money, it cannot be eaten by inflation. 

In my opinion, if we want to become rich people, then we need to own various assets. 

Cryptocurrency is an asset for the virtual space.  Currently, the virtual space is gaining global importance.  Not all people can freely travel around the world, but the global Internet is available to everyone. 

Fiat currency (banknotes, money in bank accounts, CBDC) is also very important.  Fiat currency is the most liquid asset and can be easily used to buy goods, works and services. 

Real estate is capital that can be used to generate income (i.e. for renting out). 

By purchasing shares, one can passively participate in the economic activities of enterprises and organizations, receiving income in the form of dividends and an increase in the value of these shares.

Oh well. Fine. I would just want to ask one very simple question, after you have spent and loss more than a few trillions of hard earned money on the stock market, what did you get in the end? After spending trillions to try to OWN the business, what did you get in the end? What’s inside your stock portfolio right now, just empty and nothing to see?

Let’s me answer for you, you get nothing. And you also don’t know why you didn’t get anything because you get couldn’t for some reason, because the regulator, the banker, the boss, the laws maker, all of them team up and trying to make you silence yourselves!!!

But all the talk is on Elon Musk acquire a business to show you he is indeed get a business!! What give, Elon spend just $30billions to acquire business successfully, yet you spend trillions and you get nothing in the end? I smell a lot of foul play here!! Elon Musk is not only born rich, he is also born privilege to OWN the business of the twitter!! The SEC and the GOVT team up and grant HIM, yup they grant him the privilege to OWN the twitter business even for as little as $30billion, which he doesn’t pay it in cash too(read the news for the lolz), I don’t know what BS he is pulling, that he is more privilege and born rich than all investors to OWN the twitter business.

Yup, it’s all but he was grant the right to own the business but you are not getting the grant, you would never own the business you would eat the bug and own nothing after spending a few trillions on it.

Yup! you are not Elon Musk you can’t copy and do whatever he can do. You can’t duplicate what Elon Musk success in acquiring twitter no matter how hard you try.

I know all the talk of Warren Buffett is greatest and oracle of the Omaha and all. Made billions investing in stock market! But you are not Warren Buffett, you can’t copy and do success what he did in life!

Born rich and be the house? Also born privilege? Now with born with a lot of stock option and business? I smell endless bs here. My convincing enough? Sure I know man are just too dumb there is no enough of talk is able to change their stubbornness. And god is behind all this bullshit too since god design man to be such an idiot.