no, didn't you read the guidance? paying in btc, or accepting btc as payment, does not make you an MSB
edit, also the guidelines state that virtual currency transmission cannot be providing or selling prepaid access b/c that only pertains to real currency
Topic: FinCen preparing to prosectute some Bitcoin users - page 5. (Read 13153 times)
pekv2, prepaid providers are similarly regulated. often times stores partner with white label prepaid providers, who handle all the technology as well as AML-KYC program
K, so would this fincen block places like newegg n such from using bitcoin as well? Since it would go directly to such places, exchange for computer hardware.
pekv2, prepaid providers are similarly regulated. often times stores partner with white label prepaid providers, who handle all the technology as well as AML-KYC program
I still don't see what newegg gift card shops like btcbuy has to do with fincen. BTC>Newegg gift card. It never touches USD.
BTCBuy is offline cuz of this fincen bs.
BTCBuy is offline cuz of this fincen bs.
Original statement from fincen:
http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
Excerpt:
"A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter.(Self explanatory). By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter( This is what makes it illegal in the United States to sell bitcoin whether for cash or at the exchanges. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency(Applies to exchanges and may apply to individuals who offer escrow service)."
http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
Excerpt:
"A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter.(Self explanatory). By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter( This is what makes it illegal in the United States to sell bitcoin whether for cash or at the exchanges. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency(Applies to exchanges and may apply to individuals who offer escrow service)."
It depends on what they are going after. If it's money laundering and tax evasion then more power to them.
I will post the quote from fincen when i get home but based off of memory i believe fincen had three definitions, user, issuer and exchanger. User may be a miner, issuer doesnt exist as noone controls bitcoin and exchanger are the exchanges. More importantly they stated that if you use btc to purchase goods you do not need a money transmittet license however, if you transmit btc in exchange for usd you require the license. Obviously more clarification is required from fincen but going by currrent statement, selling btc is illegal.
brb, going underground.
Correct thread title:
Some random guy says that he's heard from "anonymous sources" (aka other random guys), that the government is preparing to prosecute some bitcoin users
Some random guy says that he's heard from "anonymous sources" (aka other random guys), that the government is preparing to prosecute some bitcoin users
Which makes this 'news piece' about as useful as 'be on the lookout for a male, 30-65, 4ft-7ft and wearing clothes"
bam91, I am not sure which person you are referring to. Do you mean, if you are a miner, how do you avoid registering? My view is that a miner is not an issuer or an exchanger simply by virtue of selling their rewards for dollars.
Would a possible loophole around the money transmitter license be too setup automatic payments from the pool to the exchange and sell them from there. So you technically are not transmitting anything as the wallet address used in the pool is the same as the one in your exchange account. Fincen stated transmitting btc to convert to usd without the license is illegal, simply remove yourself as the transmitter and you are good. Or you can always buy gold coins from amagimetals and sell those.
Correct thread title:
Some random guy says that he's heard from "anonymous sources" (aka other random guys), that the government is preparing to prosecute some bitcoin users
Some random guy says that he's heard from "anonymous sources" (aka other random guys), that the government is preparing to prosecute some bitcoin users
There is nothing wrong with trading btc for services, for other cryptocurrencies, or for USD. FinCen only cares about you if you are a virtual currency "issuer" or "exchanger". At the moment, there is basically no such thing as a decentralized cryptocurrency issuer, so what you ought to think about is whether you are an exchanger. A bitcoin virtual currency exchanger is someone who makes a business of exchanging btc for dollars, or for other cryptocurrencies, or who transfers value denominated in btc between accounts. If you are such a person, e.g., Mt. Gox, and you are doing this "in the US" then you are a money service business and had better be registered with FinCen, and you had better have an AML-KYC compliance program.
That said, for a real business, it is not the end of the world to register with FinCen and comply with AML-KYC. It involves some thought, having written policies etc., and having personnel to review accounts and file routine reports. The cost of compliance is fixed and manageable.
The problems start when your success outruns your experience-based respect for danger. If you're some 15-year-old minting btc money in your mom's basement with your wild west crypto exchange that you hacked together over a week, and suddenly you wake up one morning with a million bucks worth of btc in your wallet, you should probably hire a real law firm with experience in the payments industry. You could hire me, but I would just repeat what I already said and give you the name of some biglaw shop in DC.
The trickier problem for the industry (again, in the US) is state money transmitter licensing. Here you have to be on the lookout for 50 different legal regimes. In some states it may be sufficient to have a bank or other licensed financial institution handle your funds. But that is not always enough. This can trip up experienced players, and has (see, e.g., Square in Illinois).
That said, for a real business, it is not the end of the world to register with FinCen and comply with AML-KYC. It involves some thought, having written policies etc., and having personnel to review accounts and file routine reports. The cost of compliance is fixed and manageable.
The problems start when your success outruns your experience-based respect for danger. If you're some 15-year-old minting btc money in your mom's basement with your wild west crypto exchange that you hacked together over a week, and suddenly you wake up one morning with a million bucks worth of btc in your wallet, you should probably hire a real law firm with experience in the payments industry. You could hire me, but I would just repeat what I already said and give you the name of some biglaw shop in DC.
The trickier problem for the industry (again, in the US) is state money transmitter licensing. Here you have to be on the lookout for 50 different legal regimes. In some states it may be sufficient to have a bank or other licensed financial institution handle your funds. But that is not always enough. This can trip up experienced players, and has (see, e.g., Square in Illinois).
If someone participates in illegal stuff, they will be prosecuted no matter what vehicle they use. Now, if bitcoin itself comes under attack - then it's all the reason to get involved and organize opposision.
If bitcoin is bad in and of itself, then also cell phones, roads, laptops and hammers are bad in and of itself.
If bitcoin is bad in and of itself, then also cell phones, roads, laptops and hammers are bad in and of itself.
Bitcoin users preparing to prosecute FinCen
I am planning on donating to Freebanking.org as a sort of insurance (and big Thankyou).
If you figure out a way to donate using bitcoins, please share. I only saw PayPal.
I just noted that. Sort of VERY ironic, no? Or is it a safety feature?
If FinCen start prosecutions against individuals and/or companies the next progression will be confiscation of their assets and possibly the coins they used in their transactions (easily traceable via blockchain) so in theory you could have 100 Btc in your wallet which has been used in a drug transaction and are therefore an accessory after the fact.
Suppose you bought those coins from Mtgox, they have your bank details and are therefore easily traceable.
How many people would like their names appearing in the papers as being connected to a drug or paedo ring?
Possibly another way of scaring people away from getting involved in the bitcoin economy?
LoL good luck with confiscation of bitcoin if you are stupid enough to give them access to wallet you don't deserve them. They can't put in jail every one, starve them to death Suppose you bought those coins from Mtgox, they have your bank details and are therefore easily traceable.
How many people would like their names appearing in the papers as being connected to a drug or paedo ring?
Possibly another way of scaring people away from getting involved in the bitcoin economy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHxIssSROjk
If FinCen start prosecutions against individuals and/or companies the next progression will be confiscation of their assets and possibly the coins they used in their transactions (easily traceable via blockchain) so in theory you could have 100 Btc in your wallet which has been used in a drug transaction and are therefore an accessory after the fact.
Suppose you bought those coins from Mtgox, they have your bank details and are therefore easily traceable.
How many people would like their names appearing in the papers as being connected to a drug or paedo ring?
Possibly another way of scaring people away from getting involved in the bitcoin economy?
they still have to prove that you had knowledge that the money was used for illegal activities. just as the police can't confiscate your dollar bills because they been used in a drug transaction 10 months ago, they can't confiscate your coins because they were allegedly from a drug transaction. Suppose you bought those coins from Mtgox, they have your bank details and are therefore easily traceable.
How many people would like their names appearing in the papers as being connected to a drug or paedo ring?
Possibly another way of scaring people away from getting involved in the bitcoin economy?
If FinCen start prosecutions against individuals and/or companies the next progression will be confiscation of their assets and possibly the coins they used in their transactions (easily traceable via blockchain) so in theory you could have 100 Btc in your wallet which has been used in a drug transaction and are therefore an accessory after the fact.
Suppose you bought those coins from Mtgox, they have your bank details and are therefore easily traceable.
How many people would like their names appearing in the papers as being connected to a drug or paedo ring?
Possibly another way of scaring people away from getting involved in the bitcoin economy?
Suppose you bought those coins from Mtgox, they have your bank details and are therefore easily traceable.
How many people would like their names appearing in the papers as being connected to a drug or paedo ring?
Possibly another way of scaring people away from getting involved in the bitcoin economy?
Well, you do have to pay capital gains taxes.
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