First Greece...who next? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Don007

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Quote from: Q7 on June 30, 2015, 09:06:12 AM

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Maybe, in the end, that's the best solution: a collapse of the whole union. Although it's hard to say, but I think many (wealthy) countries in the EU think they should never went for the Union in the first place. Many people here in the Netherlands argue that we should have kept the Gulden instead of going for the Euro. This has huge advantages, but sure, it also has disadvantages.. I don't know what would have been the best.

Q7

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The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Erdogan

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Quote from: Don007 on June 30, 2015, 08:35:14 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 30, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on June 30, 2015, 06:51:58 AM

A gigantic waste of sparse capital. Only rodents use the stadiums now.

Only a small part of the total expenses (€10 billion) was used for the construction of the stadiums and other sports facilities. Most of it was used to improve the infrastructure. But the problem was that more than half of the amount got stolen by corrupt people, and no one bothered to conduct an investigation then.

I agree with you on that corrupt part. Yesterday I heard the King of the Netherlands had planned a holiday to Greece. However, in order to assure his safety, an extra piece of land had te be bought near his holiday house worth $35.000. However, as soon as they heard this land was going to be bought for the security of our King, they suddently had to pay almost half a million euro's for the very same piece of land... Corruption!

Corruption is the one-egged twin of governments.

Still, the capital used for the games were drawn from the people in the three usual ways that a welfare state is paid: Taxes, expansion of the money volume and galloping loans. And it was not used on the most prosperity creating way. It never is, with the government. The market is required to do that.

Don007

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 30, 2015, 07:46:22 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on June 30, 2015, 06:51:58 AM

A gigantic waste of sparse capital. Only rodents use the stadiums now.

Only a small part of the total expenses (€10 billion) was used for the construction of the stadiums and other sports facilities. Most of it was used to improve the infrastructure. But the problem was that more than half of the amount got stolen by corrupt people, and no one bothered to conduct an investigation then.

I agree with you on that corrupt part. Yesterday I heard the King of the Netherlands had planned a holiday to Greece. However, in order to assure his safety, an extra piece of land had te be bought near his holiday house worth $35.000. However, as soon as they heard this land was going to be bought for the security of our King, they suddently had to pay almost half a million euro's for the very same piece of land... Corruption!

Elwar

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 29, 2015, 10:49:13 AM

But this can be quite dangerous. For example, the Japanese banks hold 9 times their tier 1 capital in Japanese bonds. In case the Japanese government defaults in the interest payments or loan repayments, these banks will immediately become insolvent. Even a slight devaluation of the Japanese Yen (JPY) can be catastrophic to these banks.

This could be worse than Greece. Greece doesn't pay the IMF and the IMF will just have to deal with it.

Japan doesn't pay the banks and pensions and it hits its own citizens. Double hit.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Erdogan on June 30, 2015, 06:51:58 AM

A gigantic waste of sparse capital. Only rodents use the stadiums now.

Only a small part of the total expenses (€10 billion) was used for the construction of the stadiums and other sports facilities. Most of it was used to improve the infrastructure. But the problem was that more than half of the amount got stolen by corrupt people, and no one bothered to conduct an investigation then.

Erdogan

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Quote from: dblink on June 29, 2015, 06:12:24 AM

Quote from: Kprawn on June 29, 2015, 05:01:06 AM

Greece have a weak economy linked to a corrupt government.. Sad

According to me one of the main reason for Greece economy fall out would be hosting the Olympics in 2004, which cost them the much money than the actual estimation of €4.5 billion. Did Greece has taken the right decision when they join the Euro ?

A gigantic waste of sparse capital. Only rodents use the stadiums now.

Erdogan

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 29, 2015, 12:57:16 AM

Quote from: Miracal on June 29, 2015, 12:38:49 AM

Consider what happens to a population that is A) shrinking, while B) the government continues to pile on additional debts to stimulate the economy, which is exactly what Japan is doing with its last-gasp Abenomics economic policies.

Right now more than 60% of the Japanese tax revenues are used for servicing the debt. This is a huge amount, and can't go on for ever. They need to decrease their spending, especially in the defense sector. But right now, I don't think that it is possible, as the threat of a Chinese invasion is looming large.

It is looming because mr. Abe needs it to be looming.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Japan's a strong economy making high quality sophisticated manufactured products which it sells all over the world. It's impossible to compare with Greece which needs heavy restructuring everywhere. Greece used to sell olive oil, but Tunisian oil is cheaper. Greek wine? I've seen cheaper French wine! And wine from Moldova is for nothing, since Putin blocked all exports from the little country.

Maybe Greece doesn't belong to Europe. If it were in Africa, nobody would care about it.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: pereira4 on June 29, 2015, 08:30:38 AM

Japan doesn't owe anyone debt but their own citizens, they have that huge advantage.

Exactly. Around 95% of the Japanese Government Bonds, by value are owned by Japanese individuals or local institutions. Check this:

But this can be quite dangerous. For example, the Japanese banks hold 9 times their tier 1 capital in Japanese bonds. In case the Japanese government defaults in the interest payments or loan repayments, these banks will immediately become insolvent. Even a slight devaluation of the Japanese Yen (JPY) can be catastrophic to these banks.

Don007

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Live like there is no tomorrow!

Quote from: Amph on June 29, 2015, 10:03:34 AM

and do not forget that the crisis is a bit reduced now, all around the world, for example i know that in italy there is less unemployment now is 0.6% less than the last eyar, so there are small progress

Many more countries are "recovering" from the crisis indeed. However, here in The Netherlands they speak about "recovering from the first part of the crisis". What I hear is that economics expect another crisis to come / another part of the crisis will come, which might be even worse than the crisis we have experienced yet.

But indeed, I think it's good to see countries are recovering now. We experience the same in The Netherlands now, as it appears to be easier to find a job now.

Amph

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Quote from: pereira4 on June 29, 2015, 08:30:38 AM

Quote from: Xialla on June 29, 2015, 04:42:28 AM

I expected other countries from south Europe like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Malta...Japan is imho different case and those graphs are not applicable for them like for EU countries..

This. That graph looks like it's lacking fundamental countries. Any of the south european countries is in danger to leave the euro, since they are all north's bitches. Japan doesn't owe anyone debt but their own citizens, they have that huge advantage.

i'm not sure because the graph show that they have ssome trouble, they are sitll far away from a disaster like greece, their line look stable in the last frame time, so their are approachign a recover, it might be that greece will be the only one leaving the eurozone

and do not forget that the crisis is a bit reduced now, all around the world, for example i know that in italy there is less unemployment now is 0.6% less than the last eyar, so there are small progress

pereira4

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Quote from: Xialla on June 29, 2015, 04:42:28 AM

I expected other countries from south Europe like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Malta...Japan is imho different case and those graphs are not applicable for them like for EU countries..

This. That graph looks like it's lacking fundamental countries. Any of the south european countries is in danger to leave the euro, since they are all north's bitches. Japan doesn't owe anyone debt but their own citizens, they have that huge advantage.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: dblink on June 29, 2015, 06:12:24 AM

According to me one of the main reason for Greece economy fall out would be hosting the Olympics in 2004, which cost them the much money than the actual estimation of €4.5 billion. Did Greece has taken the right decision when they join the Euro ?

The 2004 Olympics is just the tip of an iceberg. The initial costs were estimated at €4.5 billion, and they ended up spending almost €10 billion. According to the researchers, more than half of that amount was lost as a result of corruption and mismanagement, and was moved quickly out of the country to various offshore tax havens.

RustyNomad

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Puerto Rico....

Quote

...the default wave has jumped the Atlantic and has hit Puerto Rico whose governor Alejandro García Padilla, saying he needs to pull the island out of a “death spiral,” has concluded that the commonwealth cannot pay its roughly $72 billion in debts, an admission that will probably have wide-reaching financial repercussions....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-28/here-comes-prexit-puerto-rico-death-spiral-governor-says-debts-are-not-payable-refus

dblink

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Quote from: Kprawn on June 29, 2015, 05:01:06 AM

Greece have a weak economy linked to a corrupt government.. Sad

According to me one of the main reason for Greece economy fall out would be hosting the Olympics in 2004, which cost them the much money than the actual estimation of €4.5 billion. Did Greece has taken the right decision when they join the Euro ?

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Amph on June 29, 2015, 05:36:42 AM

i think greece is an exception, because, if i'm not mistaken Greece's economy was weak even before the entrance to the eurozone, so it's not european union fault , on the other hand i don't recall any other weak(in economy) country that entered the eurozone

The Greek economy was in a much better state, when compared to that of its neighbors (such as Bulgaria). But what happened is that, once Greece was given the EU membership and access to loans, the governing politicians from the PASOK and the New Democracy used that opportunity to get themselves rich. These two parties engaged in unprecendented corruption, and the EU never complained about it. But now the EU is having problems with the SYRIZA government, as they are trying to revive Greece.

Amph

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i think greece is an exception, because, if i'm not mistaken Greece's economy was weak even before the entrance to the eurozone, so it's not european union fault , on the other hand i don't recall any other weak(in economy) country that entered the eurozone

so it is unlikely that we get another case like that for the time being

Kprawn

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How many of the PIIGS - Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain are stronger after the economic recession which started in 2008?

These countries received huge bailouts and some are still feeling the affects of this.

Most of these problems started with having too much sovereign debt. As long as these countries have a strong economy the sovereign debt would not be a problem.

Greece have a weak economy linked to a corrupt government.. Sad

Xialla

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I expected other countries from south Europe like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Malta...Japan is imho different case and those graphs are not applicable for them like for EU countries..

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