First Look at BFL's ASIC Hardware | Bitcointalksearch.org

jojo69

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diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: P_Shep on September 27, 2012, 10:51:01 AM

Now if look you closely at this post, just can see it's pretty obvious that the poster has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Of course this isn't proof of total ignorance. A simple explanation is that it was a quick trolling without particular attention to detail. I'm not one of these people who are convinced of blanket trolling, although given the recent trolling posts and the whole trolling game taking place I consider it a strong possibility.

I actually enjoy a bit of electric mucus...but that right there is funny as fuck

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 27, 2012, 10:35:49 AM

... and the whole confidence game taking place I consider it a strong possibility.

Hate to quote myself but...
I love how you weren't able to make fun of this part. Roll Eyes

P_Shep

legendary

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This is not OK.

Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 27, 2012, 10:35:49 AM

I mistyped the overlapping chips on the layout is actually on the left, also some on the bottom.

Anyway, right of course this isn't proof of fraudulent activity. A simple explanation could be that it was just a quick job without particular attention to detail. I'm not one of these people who are convinced of a scam, although given the recent background check and the whole confidence game taking place I consider it a strong possibility.

It is simply that given the track record of bitcoin there is a certain feeling to legitimate enterprises here. Something about openness and community involvement which simply aren't present with BFL. Look at the X6500 or ZTEX as an example, then look at Mybitcoin and Bruce Wagner.
It's a certain feeling of professionalism which comes with legitimacy. Again this is not generally true but only a strong indicator.
Make up your own mind.

Now if look you closely at this post, just can see it's pretty obvious that the poster has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Of course this isn't proof of total ignorance. A simple explanation is that it was a quick trolling without particular attention to detail. I'm not one of these people who are convinced of blanket trolling, although given the recent trolling posts and the whole trolling game taking place I consider it a strong possibility.

Photon939

sr. member

Activity: 452

Merit: 250

Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 27, 2012, 10:35:49 AM

I mistyped the overlapping chips on the layout is actually on the left, also some on the bottom.

Anyway, right of course this isn't proof of fraudulent activity. A simple explanation could be that it was just a quick job without particular attention to detail. I'm not one of these people who are convinced of a scam, although given the recent background check and the whole confidence game taking place I consider it a strong possibility.

It is simply that given the track record of bitcoin there is a certain feeling to legitimate enterprises here. Something about openness and community involvement which simply aren't present with BFL. Look at the X6500 or ZTEX as an example, then look at Mybitcoin and Bruce Wagner.
It's a certain feeling of professionalism which comes with legitimacy. Again this is not generally true but only a strong indicator.
Make up your own mind.

But...but...that requires rational thought Sad

Yeah I pointed out earlier that often when using stock PCB rendering models they often do not do a very good job of conveying what the actual boards would look like. I do not see any glaring faults in the design.

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

I mistyped the overlapping chips on the layout is actually on the left, also some on the bottom.

Anyway, right of course this isn't proof of fraudulent activity. A simple explanation could be that it was just a quick job without particular attention to detail. I'm not one of these people who are convinced of a scam, although given the recent background check and the whole confidence game taking place I consider it a strong possibility.

It is simply that given the track record of bitcoin there is a certain feeling to legitimate enterprises here. Something about openness and community involvement which simply aren't present with BFL. Look at the X6500 or ZTEX as an example, then look at Mybitcoin and Bruce Wagner.
It's a certain feeling of professionalism which comes with legitimacy. Again this is not generally true but only a strong indicator.
Make up your own mind.

MrTeal

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Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: ElectricMucus on September 27, 2012, 08:51:07 AM

Now look at that.

For those who don't follow the SA thread on the Bitcoin Drama: Look closely at this rendering. There are some chips sticking over the board and also some chips are overlapping. (on the right for those who can't see it)
Also I noticed that the mounting holes in the middle are too close to the traces from the pins of the middle chips.

Quote from: the_thing on September 26, 2012, 06:06:21 AM

Mark my words. This is a scam.

Marked.
The fallout from this will be epic. Cheesy

Again, that doesn't necessarily mean anything that the 3D render doesn't look correct. They often don't, depending on the package you use and how much time was put into the component models. Take a look at some of those ceramic caps like the one before U4 and U8, they're unrealistically high. That doesn't mean the actual component will be that high. There's issues with the 3D render, but not enough that I'd call it a fake. Maybe you could convince them to release the gerber of the top copper layer. It wouldn't be enough for a competitor to get any real information from, but it would give those of us who are curious a little more information.

abeaulieu

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Quote from: goxed on September 26, 2012, 10:06:04 PM

Why doesn't this board have pads for decoupling capacitors for the ICs? Usually they are placed on the bottom of each chip!

Here's a raspberry pi bottom.
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/06/19/Raspberry_Pi_35332544_04_1.jpg

You're really hung up on these decoupling capacitors, aren't you. lol

Looking at their layout, it looks like they're doing the right thing by secluding the power domains of the ASICs from other dirty power. And they're probably using the inter-layer capacitance to their advantage against noise (probably at least a 6-layer board?). The larger IC-looking devices around the outside of the ASICs look to be capacitors (according to their silkscreen designators).

They have a few caps in the middle of the ASIC array and a few in between them. I would be rather surprised if they placed decoupling caps underneath the ASICs as you mentioned. It looks like they're trying to sink a lot of heat through the bottom, note the large vias on the bottom underneath each ASIC. My guess is they will make those vias un-tented and place a heat sink(s) on the bottom to extract that heat.

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

Quote from: crazyates on September 25, 2012, 01:59:58 PM

Now look at that.

For those who don't follow the SA thread on the Bitcoin Drama: Look closely at this rendering. There are some chips sticking over the board and also some chips are overlapping. (on the right for those who can't see it)
Also I noticed that the mounting holes in the middle are too close to the traces from the pins of the middle chips.

Quote from: the_thing on September 26, 2012, 06:06:21 AM

Mark my words. This is a scam.

Marked.
The fallout from this will be epic. Cheesy

Mushroomized

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Activity: 1470

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Hello!

Quote from: greyhawk on September 26, 2012, 04:08:50 PM

Is this Dragonball Z? Huh

I think so, but instead of waiting really long to fight and have arguments and grunts beforehand, we wait really long for either side to show reasonable evidence and we argue and grunt beforehand.

goxed

legendary

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Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.

Here;s the Deep crack ASIC board. Each Deepcrack chip (qfp) has clearly visible decoupling caps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Board300.jpg

MrTeal

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Quote from: goxed on September 26, 2012, 10:06:04 PM

Why doesn't this board have pads for decoupling capacitors for the ICs? Usually they are placed on the bottom of each chip!

Here's a raspberry pi bottom.

It greatly speeds production and reduces cost if you can run components on a single layer. Again it's hard to tell from the renders because the schematic capture and layout software often does goofy stuff with a 3D model (especially if BFL is using their own part libraries), but it kind of looks like the ASICs are packaged in QFNs as opposed to BGAs. If that's the case you'd actually want the decoupling on the top layer, and you can see some of them around the ICs.

MrTeal

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Very interesting. It looks like they have two power phases, each with 6 ST1S30s. The ST1S30 is rated for 3A, so assuming all 12 were running at full output current you'd have 36A or so of whatever the rail voltage is, commonly 1.2V.

It's also interesting if they actually are using ST1S30, since it has an absolute maximum rating of 7V and the common input voltage is 5V. I wonder if they're bringing 5V in through the barrel jack, or if one of the other chips is meant to convert 12V->5V. If there was, I'd guess it would be the one at the top left that looks a little floating off in space in the render, but without knowing what actual part they used it would be hard to tell if it's capable of outputting 10A.

goxed

legendary

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Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.

Why doesn't this board have pads for decoupling capacitors for the ICs? Usually they are placed on the bottom of each chip!

Here's a raspberry pi bottom.

mrb

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Quote from: the_thing on September 26, 2012, 12:50:51 PM

No, I'm not a miner. But I know a scam when I see one. And this is a scam. S.C.A.M.

You are wrong, and you don't have enough self-confidence to put your money where your mouth is by betting against BFL here: http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665

jojo69

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diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: MXRider on September 26, 2012, 04:08:56 PM

Are we going to see watercooled ASICs?

I'm trying to work on that, need mechanical drawings

CJGoodings

full member

Activity: 322

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I would love to see the SEC debrief on this, some intern is explaining it to the rest of the room with a report he passed around.

Intern:
"Yes sir, here are the specs they are advertising"
Boss:
"What about a photo of the product?"
Intern:
"Page 3 sir, its the black box looking gizmo."
Boss:
"Its stated that the image source is verified, where was it located?"
Intern:
"Facebook."
Boss:
"............."

"Your a fucking idiot."

jjiimm_64

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Activity: 1876

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Quote from: psilan on September 26, 2012, 02:32:04 PM

Mistakes like that never get passed me.

I passed some gas

edit: this wasn't the topic?

P_Shep

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This is not OK.

Quote from: MXRider on September 26, 2012, 04:08:56 PM

Are we going to see watercooled ASICs?

Do you mind NOT posting ON TOPIC replies, please?

Sheesh, some people.

MXRider

sr. member

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Are we going to see watercooled ASICs?

greyhawk

hero member

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Merit: 1009

Is this Dragonball Z? Huh

Topic: First Look at BFL's ASIC Hardware (Read 16130 times)