Topic: FixedFloat — fully automatic cryptocurrency exchange with Lightning Network⚡️ - page 2. (Read 2154 times)

You're talking to the wrong person. I've been doing the only thing we can do against this, for years; which is informing people about these practices and recommending alternatives.

I'm just talking from experience; nobody is legally 'scammed' if they agreed to the terms they agreed to; unless a court finds the terms malicious. If exchanges are running with such terms or similar ones, for a decade, we're not going to stop them doing so by complaining online. We can only help the community by developing and presenting the alternatives that do exist.

Good luck! As I've been saying; you're late to the party. How are you envisioning getting billion-dollar companies to change course?

I know. So? Let's just accept this and do nothing about this? If for you it is ok to accept anything you've been told to accept it doesn't mean everyone thinks so.


"You may have a chance"?   Seriously? I didn't get ripped off, I just noticed FixedFloat has a right to scam in their opinion. And informed people. But. "I may have chance to have my own money back"? Am I in an asylum? If this is my money nobody has a right to take and "block" it. This is so obvious. No chances. This is not something customers must beg and hope for. What a wild idea.



So we must act and show them such terms don't go with customers and will result in problems for exchangers that have such terms.

And while you accept any ToS, then beg and hope to have your own funds I already made 2 exchangers to change their rules.

Technically you can, and you'd be surprised how many businesses (especially in crypto) have such terms. You don't seem to read TOS much, do you?
But yeah, as dkbit said, if you did get ripped off, your local TOS didn't include that sentence and also armed with archives of the website showing it was changed after 2020 without updating the date, you may have a chance of getting your money back.

Who's gonna tell him?
Here's a hint: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/newbies-dont-use-centralized-exchanges-5393961

^{Every single exchange has such terms.}

What if a bakery sells poisoned bread because it is in their ToS so "both parties agreed" and "it's a free market"? What if you buy clothes from a clothes shop and they tell you "Well, we took your money now but we'll give you nothing, bye. This rule was stated in our ToS". Free market, no? Following your logic any business can put in their ToS "We can scam you" and just take your money. And then goes "both parties agreed" and "free market". Add to this they put their ToS under the carpet in their shop so you didn't see it so "both parties agreed" I stay for the free market too. But exists a common sense. You can't just put in ToS "I have a right to scam customers" then scam them and tell it's okay because it's in ToS. I mean, technically you can, you can write it in your ToS. But it wouldn't be ok and you would be a scammer.


"We have a right to scam you" - look how short, fits any screen perfectly, doesn't need much space The problem is nobody expects an exchanger to have a right to scam customers stated in a ToS. Because this is against common sense. And it's completely normal people don't expect rules like this. Vice versa it would be very strange if people expected something like that and searched for that in someone's ToS. Again, when you go to a clothes shop do you have an idea you should read their ToS to check if the shop has a right to scam you? No, because this is just crazy. So you are telling we shouldn't use common sense when dealing with exchangers and should expect anything to happen and to be in ToS. So we can expect for example "Our exchanger will ask you for your nude photos" or "Our exchanger will ask you to cut your ear and send to us". Following your logic if it's in ToS it's ok and should be expected. Doesn't matter what it is.


Of course, that's why I said above if clients were informed they never would use such service. You won't use a bakery that is selling poisoned bread. But if you haven't seen other customers dead after eating this bread you would never have in mind "our bakery puts poison to bread" can be in ToS. And you're not supposed to. Because it's ok not to expect crazy things to be there. What is not ok is to have such crazy things in ToS. So if a baker sells poisoned bread I don't think "just don't buy from him" works in this case. I think the baker shouldn't be surprised when some day someone cracks his head. It would be logical and fair.

And I will inform people about scammer exchangers and will report these exchangers everywhere I can. "Just don't use" doesn't work for me in this case, I won't just observe scam happening daily and think "Oh, it's in ToS so it's ok".


Yes it is illegal. They can't have any ToS they want. Technically they can but it would be against the law. The law tells only financial organizations can perform KYC checks and seize funds. Can't believe I must explain why one physical person can't seize funds of another physical person. If you think so I want to seize your funds too, send me some coins please  I'll seize them only to perform check, I promise. Exchangers aren't police, aren't banks. You agree only police has the right to detain you, don't you? Same thing for seizing funds. Anonymous person from internet can't do this just because he or she wrote it in their ToS. Having such rules in ToS doesn't make it ok.

It's not really illegal, they can have their own terms and change them at any time, and I am not defending anyone here, just stating the fact.
If you examine what was happening with  centralized exchanges, lending platforms and some gambling website, they did hold ands seized coins of their customers many times.
In case you used russian version and there was no ToS rules, maybe you have some chance to get your coins back, that is if you can prove this somehow.

That is really problematic, but I would like to hear someone official from FixedFloat talking more about this issue.
Have they ever registered and wrote something in Bitcointalk forum?

What if both parties agreed to it, though? Like when doing a Bitcoin escrow on this forum?

It's ok if you agreed to it, no? If you don't like the terms, choose another service instead. That's the free market..

It looks absurd to me, which is why I always advocate for https://bisq.network/ for any larger sum of money (and against any centralized exchange in general).
'clients don't read ToS' is a non-argument. In most countries, 'Ignorantia juris non excusat' is a commonly known law, i.e. if you don't know the law or in this case, terms of service, it's your fault and doesn't protect you from punishment. It is your duty to be aware of all terms and conditions before using a service.
It is not their duty to show this information during an exchange. Just like Facebook doesn't have a message next to the 'Post' button about all the evil and wicked ways in which this data you're about to post, will be mined, linked, used and archived forever + sold to everyone who pays them. Of course it doesn't, because it would fill up the whole screen.

Clients aren't forced to use the service, though. It goes either way.

No, it wouldn't. I personally don't know any country where it would be legal for one physical person to freeze other physical person's funds. Because having authority is necessary to do this. A physical person doesn't have one, only financial companies.



I even don't know what to say if you think it's ok when some random anonymous person blocks your funds. If it doesn't look like an absurd to you I don't know how to explain this. "Both parties agree" because normally clients don't read ToS. Nobody would agree after reading. And FixedFloat doesn't show any message stating this during an exchange. And Bestchange doesn't show "asks for personal info" icon near FixedFloat's name. So the majority of clients don't know.

Blocking funds without having authority is a scam. Banks block because they collaborate with officials and must comply with laws as a financial organization. Why does some random person who doesn't have any company, works anonymously and isn't connected with any government institution block? Just because wants to, there isn't any reason. And if you want to say "they do it because they work with Binance", well, it's not client's problem. Clients don't force them to work with Binance. Also working with Binance doesn't give them any authority for performing KYC. They even don't give you any guarantees your personal data will be safe and won't be sold.

Is that so? Wouldn't it depend on the country they operate in, whether they have such authority or not? And if you accept such terms, it should be allowed anyway, right? Sure; some things are 'unlawful' in the sense that even if someone gets you to sign an agreement, it can't and won't be enforced. But 'if you choose to exchange with us, your funds can be frozen', sounds like something that should be legal if both parties agree.

I'm not defending these practices, just saying if it's in the terms and conditions, simply expect it to happen sometimes or use a different service.
I personally found it especially suspicious that the 'last changed' date of their TOU was not updated; therefore leaving users in the belief that nothing changed since 2020. This may even be used in court to argue that any changes to the document since 2020 are not enforceable.

I used Russian version and they don't have ToS in Russian at all. So I think many Russian speaking people won't know about this change. Also please keep in mind they aren't legally registered company. They work anonymously, don't have any legal data on their website. So they don't have any authority to freeze someone's funds. Only banks and other financial organizations can do this. And one physical person can't block funds of another physical person just because he or she wants to. For the same reason they can't demand any personal data. So blocking funds like this is just a scam.


No it doesn't mean they can. I mean it doesn't mean they can put terms like this in ToS. It's illegal. But of course they will block your funds because they'll do anything they want. And as for Bestchange's admin, I already talked with him by email. I wrote about it in my new topic here.


I made a topic about this, please read: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bestchange-keeps-scammer-exchangers-and-probably-collaborates-with-them-5424907

You should try talking with BestChange in forum, but since FixedFloat terms are saying they can freeze your coins, it means they can (and will) do it: 

It's interesting that BestChange didn't mark them with new KYC icon, that just shoes you shouldn't blindly trust statements from any website because terms and rules are changing all the time.
This is how FixedFloat looks in bestchange website, and you can't find icon that looks like a profile:



And this is few random examples how exchanges with clear KYC risks look like:

Interesting; there's a sentence in the Terms of Service about that, as well:


It surprised me, because I had read the TOS before and didn't remember that. I checked archives and indeed, it wasn't there a few years ago. In fact, the website says it wasn't changed after May 1, 2020; however, in July 2021 it read:

Whereas on the 25th of September, 2021 it had changed to:

Having such a clause in place is relatively common for any type of centralized exchange, but isn't / shouldn't be used arbitrarily. The fact that it was added silently is what preoccupies me more. Thanks for reporting it!

FixedFloat are scammers. Check their reviews, read gray ones: https://www.bestchange.ru/fixedfloat-exchanger.html. Use Google Translate to translate from Russian. FixedFloat takes coins from clients and keeps these coins because of "the source of the funds check", they don't make refunds if a client refuses to share his private info. And Bestchange closes disputes without having resolved, just makes them gray but people don't receive their money back from FixedFloat.

https://i.postimg.cc/Dw0ds9pB/11.png

I would like to report that my experience with FixedFloat has been very pleasent so far.
The killer feature for me is the ability to get Lightning funds from various shitcoins I have received or bought in the past and get on-chain funds out of my LN wallets when needed.

I didn’t try very large amounts so far, for large exchanges of currency I prefer an exchange like Bisq with limit buys etc., but it’s great for small things and especially practical to get BTC into and out of Lighrning wallets.

5/5 from me!

Perhaps you might want to open up a scam accusation to gain more attention. But this is one thing you should know about instant exchangers, they may not ask for KYC but most of them use third party exchanges. Should your transaction appear suspicious. The third party exchanges will hold the funds and not actually fixed float. Always take a look at the terms and conditions of a service before making a transaction.

Carefully! The fixedfloat.com exchanger is scammers, the claim amount is $ 12,000.

Application GR9ZGZ.
So, on August 31, 2021 at 04:49 am I created a request to exchange 0.24195197 bitcoin for 50.982483 dash, the amount is equivalent to $ 12,000.
Bitcoin was successfully sent to their bc1qs94ps9zkm8vppmemmwd8fw9k40xgktj05rzq3c wallet and received by them, which is confirmed by a screenshot of the application on their website.
An hour later, I decided to ask in the chat on their website how long it will take for my request to be completed, in response to which I receive:

"Your order was stopped because we received information from our partners that the funds at your address were received fraudulently. Your exchange is currently being processed by our security team. Email us at [email protected] to contact our security team. If you are prove that the funds were not received fraudulently, we will definitely continue your exchange. "

After that, I contacted them by mail, for which I received a request:

"Hello,

Your exchange has been suspended because we received notifications from our partners that the funds sent to us on this request are funds received as a result of the recent Liquid hack.

In order to proceed with an exchange or refund, we must make sure that the funds were received by you in an honest way, as well as get all the information about the source of the funds you received. Otherwise, the funds will be blocked.

Please write to us in detail where you got these funds and from whom or what service they were received from.

Best regards,
FixedFloat team. "

Next, I attached them a photo of my contract (with signatures), on the basis of which I received funds to my wallets and explained in the message their question regarding the origin of my funds, to which an answer was received:

"Hello,

In this case, the person who sent these funds to the specified addresses should contact us and provide information about the source of these funds.
We received additional information about the direct dependence of these funds with the Liquid hack, which implies the connection of your borrower with this crime. The exchange of these funds is not possible without a full investigation.

We also note the suspiciousness of the contract you provided. The indication of three different addresses, as well as the exact amounts before satoshi for a refund, taking into account a different rate on August 10 and 31, leads to the idea that this document is fake. This document cannot be considered as evidence.

Best regards,
FixedFloat team. "

After this answer, everything fell into place, the exchanger refused to fulfill its obligations and kept the money for itself.
Then I turned to the law enforcement agencies and at the moment they are dealing with this problem.
My request for their legal details from fixedfloat.com was answered by:

“You do not need our legal details for an initial police request. The police will independently request this information from us if necessary.

Best regards,
FixedFloat team. "

Screenshots of my application with refusal to chat and e-mail correspondence are attached.
Fixedfloat.com are engaged in fraud, robbing their customers.
When creating an application on their website, I did not agree with the AML policy, since they do not even have this interface.
Given this, the FixedFloat exchanger does not even have the right to ask its "partners" about the origin of my cryptocurrency.
Despite this, from my side, all documents were provided confirming the origin of my funds.
They only exchange cryptocurrencies, which makes it difficult for me to disclose their data.
The owner of the Fixedfloat.com domain is hidden, and therefore requires any information about the owner and the service, as well as help me, of course for a fee.
You can contact me at: [email protected]
For my part, I will spread this incident as widely as possible and will do everything to stop the work of this office.

Take care of your hard-earned money, all the best.

I am from an economically unstable country and every penny counts when it is about saving money, so I decided to give this service a chance. Even though, I was skeptical about this service and all the good reception it has.

I am familar with automated exchanges so the instructions were easy to understand.

I sent Dash and I expected to receive DOGE.
I selected the floating exchange rate, sent the DASH and waited.

Once they got the first confirmation, the process was quicker than expected. I'd say it was about less than a minute after the first conformation.

I received my DOGE and it was done. Surprisingly, I noticed that the transaction I made was featured on the main-page among the "recent transaction" section, which only brings more feelings of legitimacy.

I am still a little bit skeptical about this service, because in my eyes, it appears too good to be true (I guess I am kind of a skeptical person).
But I need to be fair and admit this is by far the fawless exchange experience I have had for now, got what I expected and quicker than I thought (not even mentioning the low fee)

I would dare to assume (I may be wrong) that since their fees are so low, they need to provide a good service or even try to use some advertisement campaings and shilling in order for their service to be profitable, but that is just an assumption.

The fact is that I am very happy with my first experience, and if this service is still around in 6 months or year and not closed by the CIA/FBI or featured on the news as a fraud. I will certainly become a regular client.

I apologize if my review is a bit sour-sweet, just being honest.

Anyways, continue with the good job.

9.5/10 

Great site. I've recommended it to may people who are just getting into crypto and don't want to use any stabilized services.

Works great, looks great, and is the cheapest in the industry (even when comparing with binance, coinbase) when dealing with low amounts of funds (anything below $100) when thinking of withdrawal fees and others present on large exchanges.


I guess this blog isn't being used anymore? Doesn't seem updated.

Now we have a blog - https://fixedfloat.com/blog  ✍️

We promise to write only interesting articles and answers to the most popular questions from our beloved customers❤️

Best regards,
FixedFloat team.
Think big. Exchange wisely.

Instantly, Stable and LEGIT

Thank you for your kind words! (and sorry for the long reply )

Soon there will be a significant expansion of supported coins, on your advice, we will consider DAI in the first place.

You are always welcome!🚀

Best regards,
FixedFloat team.
Think big. Exchange wisely.