I don't see same ip on logs for both accounts. I think FJ should ask both to make kyc and if both was from same house , then but only then should block the money, until then in my opinion FJ are just scammers.
And one more thing, i don't see what is wrong if me and one of my friends play on FJ, we are not on same house and even not have same name, this i think i don't see on any casino, i agree to not play on any other account than your own, but prohibiting people open accounts and lock their money because friends play there on their own is not good at all.
Topic: Fortunejack refusing to pay 5 BTC *STAY FAR AWAY* (Read 1194 times)
Stay far away from this shady ass site.
Fortunejack robbed me over 5.25 BTC. Got on a hot streak one morning earlier in the week and went to withdrawal a couple BTC. I go to withdrawal and it says to contact customer service. A day later I get an email accusing me of Multi-accounting with some random ass username.
They are refusing to give me any additional info on how they came out with this BS accusation. What benefit would I have to make another account? I have never taken any bonuses.
Funny how when you deposit and lose they have no issues but the second you win they claim some bs to not pay you. They are some sorry ass losers who are just mad that I took them for over 50k.
I am not going to give up and will continue to slander them until they pay me.
Fortunejack robbed me over 5.25 BTC. Got on a hot streak one morning earlier in the week and went to withdrawal a couple BTC. I go to withdrawal and it says to contact customer service. A day later I get an email accusing me of Multi-accounting with some random ass username.
They are refusing to give me any additional info on how they came out with this BS accusation. What benefit would I have to make another account? I have never taken any bonuses.
Funny how when you deposit and lose they have no issues but the second you win they claim some bs to not pay you. They are some sorry ass losers who are just mad that I took them for over 50k.
I am not going to give up and will continue to slander them until they pay me.
What will happen then to his winnings? Already a huge btc drop and $ lost.
The fact fortunejack are working with proven scammers like lauda and now even paying a member nutildah who is willing to assist scammers for a small sum is a big red flag.
50k or less now is quite a big sum of winnings to refuse to pay out?
Perhaps they need that to pay scammers like lauda and sneaky scam facilitators like nutildah?
The excuses to not pay him out look bogus.
Combined with the proven scammers and scum like lauda tman and nutildah they work with it looks very shady.
I haven't taken any bonuses or used any freeplays in 10 months.
FJ posted this:
Quote
Yet, the practice is abusive, and the Player somehow managed to be in the rules. But if the play with casino gets out of hands, the casino reserves the right to restrict some aspects of the game with the Player. To be perfectly clear here: Adding option is a willing offer from casino to players, keeping the game going, like a cashback or other promotion. Every casino ever receives the right to restrict players' gaming practice, if the playing pattern seems to be abusive to its promotions. Hereby, here is an example of betslip PatDugan used to win some big bucks, the + sign indicates, that game was added in the bet slip using the promotion.
Can you explain whats up with those bets? I have no idea how their bonuses work or anything.
Does a bet require manual approval, and then they just let you add whatever you want as a parlay or something, including promotional funds?
Quote from: dragonvslinux
Ok, fair enough. But the fact they haven't responded to a scam accusations against their casino, in the correct thread, seems very shady to me. I appreciate that others have voluntarily posted this here, but the casino should really be responding directly here imo, if they have nothing to hide as it were.
Could be because people hardly visit this board? Why bother spamming the forum with the same responses on two threads?
Quote from: dragonvslinux
My concern is they are not willing to have an accused account prove their identity, which sounds ridiculous like they want that 5BTC quite a lot!
KYC can be bought as @Lauda mentioned. So even if the OP is willing to verify the 2nd identity it doesn't mean much... As the Betting behaviour is a dead giveaway considering that @amelik2's account was inactive for 8 months and the day he got banned on @PatDugan, he revived his alt-account and went about his business as usual. I can totally see why they denied a KYC to @amelik2...
Quote from: dragonvslinux
Somebody tell me if the usual standard for casinos is to take people's winnings (if you don't lose it yourself). If so, then this is sad to say the least, and it's a shame a casino hasn't surfaced in the past 10 years that protects it's customers better. Whether the OP is a multi-accouter or not becomes irrelevant at this point, the customer standards of this casino appear very low to me. At minimum, they need to update their T&Cs to make things clearer, at best provide brief warnings/guidlines on each of the casinos games.
Unfortunately, this is the industry-standard. I started a thread recently and it turns out your average punter doesn't gives a fuck about T&Cs or their privacy in general. Also, there are no regulatory bodies which protect them which I believe is due to lobbying. It's a pretty lucrative business in this day and age. You can pretty much bail yourself out in case you are about to go bust, all you need to do is insert some fake logs in your database and you are saved... There is a massive gap in the market and not everyone is informed about the subject, So there isn't much which can be done at this point except spreading awareness about decentralized betting exchanges and casinos...
Quote from: dragonvslinux
They don't want to accept documentation, instead attempt to control the narrative of discussion by refusing to post in this thread, instead only posting in their own ANN?
Yikes.
Yikes.
Maybe it is because the OP accused them in their thread as well?
Ok, fair enough. But the fact they haven't responded to a scam accusations against their casino, in the correct thread, seems very shady to me. I appreciate that others have voluntarily posted this here, but the casino should really be responding directly here imo, if they have nothing to hide as it were.
Did you even bother reading this? Looks pretty conclusive evidence to me, unless you are hyper skeptic of some sort then I can't help ya...
Yup, this was the nail on the head for the red flag for me. Terms & conditions that don't consider their customers, hence the useful topic title "stay far away". That's fine they want to block multi-accounting, I really don't care what so ever. My concern is they are not willing to have an accused account prove their identity, which sounds
If they wanted to protect their customers, then some guidelines would be useful; rather than this T&C that I don't think everyone using these casinos have the technological understanding to fully comprehend. For example; on the casinos games itself, it should be made clear;
- Don't use public wifi, hotspots, workplaces wifi or any other location that another casino user may also be using, or have used in the past.
- If you have moved house, make sure you are using a new wifi connection, or check that previous owner/tenants haven't used the casino in the past.
- Accused accounts will not have the opportunity to prove their identity of innocence, whether by KYC calls or IP proofs.
- Don't refer any of the following people to the casino, or risk being accused of multi-accounting and losing your winnings:
brother/sister/friend/aunt/uncle/25th-removed cousin
Obviously, there is a financial incentive here not to provide clearer guidelines to customers, again this is my concern, as well as willingness to accept a KYC call. Somebody tell me if the usual standard for casinos is to take people's winnings (if you don't lose it yourself). If so, then this is sad to say the least, and it's a shame a casino hasn't surfaced in the past 10 years that protects it's customers better. Whether the OP is a multi-accouter or not becomes irrelevant at this point, the customer standards of this casino appear very low to me. At minimum, they need to update their T&Cs to make things clearer, at best provide brief warnings/guidlines on each of the casinos games.
Jeez! why are we even trying to discuss this when the OP was allowed to withdraw his deposit and move on...
This isn't about "do they have the right to take the winnings", which is obviously YES because they have the right to take anyone's winnings by the looks of it, which a dose of IP correlations, or vague accusations. My concern: "is the casino acting fairly towards it's customers", I believe the latter answer is clearly NO, hence me claiming that this case raises red flags for me. Why am I bothering to say this? Because if the casino isn't willing to address this, then I will, for the benefit of any current or futures users.
I otherwise hope that FJ take on my constructive criticism to better protect their customers, but this doesn't seem likely. I'm otherwise grateful that this user brought this serious case to attention of users here, for the benefit or others (whether the OP was multi-accounting or not) - which for the record I still don't believe is conclusive what so ever.
Quote from: dragonvslinux
They don't want to accept documentation, instead attempt to control the narrative of discussion by refusing to post in this thread, instead only posting in their own ANN?
Yikes.
Yikes.
Maybe it is because the OP accused them in their thread as well? Did you even bother reading this? Looks pretty conclusive evidence to me, unless you are hyper skeptic of some sort then I can't help ya... Also logging in from two different IPs at the same time isn't even an issue these days... Jeez! why are we even trying to discuss this when the OP was allowed to withdraw his deposit and move on...
As you posted on the prior screenshot with the two IP's logging in 18 minutes apart one was in VA and one was in Baltimore. Everyone knows it is impossible to travel from VA to Baltimore in under 75 minutes. Clearly we are two separate people.
For the benefit of non-US users such as myself:
Virginia is a big state. It borders Maryland very near Baltimore so it's quite possible to get from someplace in Virginia to Baltimore in under 75 minutes. But none of that means anything. Geolocation is never accurate enough to make conclusions like these. My IP is routinely geolocated hundreds of miles away from my real position.
As you posted on the prior screenshot with the two IP's logging in 18 minutes apart one was in VA and one was in Baltimore. Everyone knows it is impossible to travel from VA to Baltimore in under 75 minutes. Clearly we are two separate people.
For the benefit of non-US users such as myself:
As a correction, it's possible to fly in 51 minutes:
For reference sake, just in case! FUTURISTIC PLANS FOR BALTIMORE 'Teleport' proposal
(Note, if you're based in the present, this link may not work)
I have offered to send a copy of the phone bill. I've offered to send additional documentation as well. Since you have all the IP's you will see the IP with only 1 user accessing it is my house in the town near where I live. I have no problem sending a mortgage statement and additional documentation showing that I live near that town.
They don't want to accept documentation, instead attempt to control the narrative of discussion by refusing to post in this thread, instead only posting in their own ANN?
Yikes.
Quote from: andulolika
I never imagined FJ has such stupid rules
Well, believe it or not, this is the industry-standard... So there is no point in singling out FJ. Most of these casinos/bookmakers try to protect themselves against abuse of bonus offers / Promotions which they run. I was pretty shocked how these casinos/bookmakers have got away with it so far TBH... There are no regulatory bodies which protect the recreational punters... Given this is a multi-billion dollar industry I'm baffled why the governments haven't regulated them so far... I guess it has something to do with lobbying but I'm merely speculating at this point... Anyway, I started a discussion recently and unfortunately what I have learned so far is that there is a massive gap in the market and people usually don't give a shit about their privacy as they aren't informed enough about why their privacy matters...
I never imagined FJ has such stupid rules or that it such a site, I negative rated their account since I don't believe a crypto casino that promotes fairness and freedom could have such rules as holding users funds or prohibiting double accounts.
If you take this to court you will probably win btw.
since they atleast repaid the initial deposit i changed my rating to a negative neutral one.
If you take this to court you will probably win btw.
since they atleast repaid the initial deposit i changed my rating to a negative neutral one.
First of all, we would love to once again clarify what the actual meaning of the term ‘last IP’ is, which was included into the screenshot above. It’s the IP address that the certain user used for the last time of logging in into the FJ account.
On another hand, the IP address (107.77.204.49/)
I reviewed the "shared" IP address and discovered this IP belongs to my my work office wifi.
I looked up the whois for the IP address in question, and it appears to belong to AT&T wireless.
I cannot rule out this IP address being a hotspot for AT&T wireless customers, but I think this is pretty unlikely. If this IP address belonged to your office WiFi, I think it would probably be more likely to belong to AT&T Uverse, or whatever their trade name is for serving business customers.
If I am understanding correctly, FJ told the OP they didn't want him gambling at their casino anymore, and the OP subsequently used another account to gamble at FJ's casino, and won 5 btc. If this is true, FJ should allow the OP to withdraw his deposit if they haven't already, but they do not owe him his winnings.
How he did damages to the site? They had enough evidence to block him earlier
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OP withdraw your claim and read the ToS again.
OP withdraw your claim and read the ToS again.
Which section of the ToS shud the OP refer to?
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I am advising FJ that no further time needs to be wasted on this. If you break the ToS, then you can go home.
Didn't knew that you work for FJ in the capacity of an advisor; again wnich section of the ToS are you referring to?I am advising FJ that no further time needs to be wasted on this. If you break the ToS, then you can go home.
P.S. Shouldn't advisors be negged too for shady shit their companies do?
Posting this here again so that other defenders of FJ (read sign soul sellers) can maybe point it out to me.
According to our Terms and Conditions, we reserve the right to terminate all the accounts onto the same IP. The rules apply to the accounts, coming from the same family, household, relative or a connected person that might be somehow linked with the acc.
https://i.ibb.co/72m6qsK/image.png
Maybe others can see what I can't can someone point me to the section where it says SAME IP and not some frivolous shit like multiple registered accounts?
I also find it odd that FJ only removed the winnings from the OP's balance and left the amount he deposited and did not 'confiscate all monetary funds available' on the account as per the ToS... If they are so sure the OP was multi-accounting they would surely take all funds as per the ToS. As they havent it would lead to me to believe there is at least a case for the OP.
Reposting it here for all who have seen this thread to be able to see FJ's much better response by clicking their link.
Having gone thru the entire thread I have come to the conclusion that there is indeed strong connection between the two accounts and hence FJ is very much within the margin of error in this case.
Too many coincidences IMO to be ignored, but it wud hv been better had u clarified it in such a manner prior.
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With this, we apologize to be linking this information public. Still, as the community has been involved in the case so actively and the Player has been so vocal, we believe that full transparency of the case is crucial. So all the information is decided to be public, to avoid any misjudgments over the matter.
With this, we apologize to be linking this information public. Still, as the community has been involved in the case so actively and the Player has been so vocal, we believe that full transparency of the case is crucial. So all the information is decided to be public, to avoid any misjudgments over the matter.
Having gone thru the entire thread I have come to the conclusion that there is indeed strong connection between the two accounts and hence FJ is very much within the margin of error in this case.
Too many coincidences IMO to be ignored, but it wud hv been better had u clarified it in such a manner prior.
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OP withdraw your claim and read the ToS again.
OP withdraw your claim and read the ToS again.
Which section of the ToS shud the OP refer to?
-
I am advising FJ that no further time needs to be wasted on this. If you break the ToS, then you can go home.
Didn't knew that you work for FJ in the capacity of an advisor; again wnich section of the ToS are you referring to?I am advising FJ that no further time needs to be wasted on this. If you break the ToS, then you can go home.
P.S. Shouldn't advisors be negged too for shady shit their companies do?
Posting this here again so that other defenders of FJ (read sign soul sellers) can maybe point it out to me.
According to our Terms and Conditions, we reserve the right to terminate all the accounts onto the same IP. The rules apply to the accounts, coming from the same family, household, relative or a connected person that might be somehow linked with the acc.
Maybe others can see what I can't can someone point me to the section where it says SAME IP and not some frivolous shit like multiple registered accounts?
Since you all think I'm a photoshop expert. Here's a screen grab that 'patdugan' sent me of the withdrawal. If we are going to play the photoshop card who's to say that FJ didn't photoshop what they posted with the IPs?
https://i.ibb.co/7ksRyQp/screen.png
FJ has not responded to any of my emails. They have no problem posting private info of their users on a public forum but can't even have a private discussion? Nice way to operate an online gambling site...
They are also completely ignoring the fact that they paid out my coworker winnings yesterday. Please explain that?
Why don't they post the IP's of the users on the weekends or after 5PM EST? Have both users been logged in at the same time from different IP's in different areas? I bet they have...I'm sure they won't share that though because it will help justify my side even more. They already posted us logging in 18 minutes apart in different cities. If they really cared about doing what is right they would respond to my emails and do a more thorough investigation. I've offered to complete a KYC and send in doc's. They won't even respond to my offering.
Just because we are coworkers who signed up on the same day because another person told us positive things about the site means they can refuse to pay? I'm sure many people on this forum have a friend or coworker who uses the same gaming site. They're refusing payment because we happened to connect to the same office wifi network a couple times?
How do they expect to grow their business by word of mouth if they don't allow friends or co-workers of users to get paid?
FYI myself and many of my coworkers are on a few established well known books (5D, Bookmaker, Heri) Not once have they ever given us a problem about logging in from the same IP. They have the same 'Terms and Conditions'. We are all verified users with 0 issues!
I've offered to show FJ that my deposit came from my verified account on Heritage but they aren't interested. Nice shady operation they have going on...
https://i.ibb.co/7ksRyQp/screen.png
FJ has not responded to any of my emails. They have no problem posting private info of their users on a public forum but can't even have a private discussion? Nice way to operate an online gambling site...
They are also completely ignoring the fact that they paid out my coworker winnings yesterday. Please explain that?
Why don't they post the IP's of the users on the weekends or after 5PM EST? Have both users been logged in at the same time from different IP's in different areas? I bet they have...I'm sure they won't share that though because it will help justify my side even more. They already posted us logging in 18 minutes apart in different cities. If they really cared about doing what is right they would respond to my emails and do a more thorough investigation. I've offered to complete a KYC and send in doc's. They won't even respond to my offering.
Just because we are coworkers who signed up on the same day because another person told us positive things about the site means they can refuse to pay? I'm sure many people on this forum have a friend or coworker who uses the same gaming site. They're refusing payment because we happened to connect to the same office wifi network a couple times?
How do they expect to grow their business by word of mouth if they don't allow friends or co-workers of users to get paid?
FYI myself and many of my coworkers are on a few established well known books (5D, Bookmaker, Heri) Not once have they ever given us a problem about logging in from the same IP. They have the same 'Terms and Conditions'. We are all verified users with 0 issues!
I've offered to show FJ that my deposit came from my verified account on Heritage but they aren't interested. Nice shady operation they have going on...
How many have you gone through? Can you list a few? If it is the case I find it a very lucrative business... Also, everybody is a nonamer at some point but that shouldn't stop someone fixing the industry-standard...
It would be easier if you named the top 50 casinos and I could tell you on two hands tops (more like one) which ones I haven't played at.
I was asking about the TOS regarding multi-accounts. Anyway, I haven't gambled much in my life so 50 is kinda stretch... I can google it them for you if you want... But I have come across William hills and Bet365 and after doing a quick google search I found they have a similar rule of 1 account per person but I don't know yet how they enforce this. Gonna read more into this...
How many have you gone through? Can you list a few? If it is the case I find it a very lucrative business... Also, everybody is a nonamer at some point but that shouldn't stop someone fixing the industry-standard...
It would be easier if you named the top 50 casinos and I could tell you on two hands tops (more like one) which ones I haven't played at.
Quote from: Hhampuz
If your system is superior you really should go out there and sell it to big brand casinos (not only crypto ones) and you'd make a killing considering they'd save a lot on administrative fees.
It isn't my system, this has existed for a very long time and I don't need to sell anything, It's literally a few lines of codes and you get a UID, you can then couple this with IPs if you want and you will have the ability to build a stronger case against multi-account users. But the way I'm starting to see it, they are shying away from this for the very reason I stated above. A way to bail themselves out.
Quote from: Hhampuz
As for the TOS this is how any larger legitimate casino operates. You can just go through all the big ones that you can find out there in the world and you will see.. It's nothing about "Avoid these poor TOS sites" if anything you'd run a greater risk of losing money if you find the opposite (as they'll most likely be small-time nonamers).
How many have you gone through? Can you list a few? If it is the case I find it a very lucrative business... Also, everybody is a nonamer at some point but that shouldn't stop someone fixing the industry-standard...
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