UPD. @foundationdvcs, please, don't be silent, waiting for your response.
Will get back to you ASAP, just getting caught up on this thread after a crazy week for the company!
Topic: Foundation Passport Official Thread - page 16. (Read 6599 times)
Will get back to you ASAP, just getting caught up on this thread after a crazy week for the company!
I can't find a function that feeds this to a PRNG (pseudo RNG); the result just gets used by different functions that e.g. fill buffers with multiple random bytes (acquired by repeatedly calling noise_get_random_uint16).
But maybe @foundationdvcs can give a more definitive answer on that.
OK, then it seems Passport generates SEED's entropy solely from random physical process.
However, response from foundationdvc would be appreciated as their statement "TRNG on SE" is slightly misleading - Avalanche diode is not on SE.
I'm curious how you got the idea that they would feed the avalanche entropy into a PRNG..
Just my curiosity
They said TRNG on secure element, but Avalanche diode is not on SE.
At the same time
output from BRNG (that might be hardware based and implemented on SE) seeded by "white noise" would be very close to being truly random .
Some manufacturers call BRNG seeded by randomness from physical process as TRNG.
UPD. @foundationdvcs, please, don't be silent, waiting for your response.
Well, OK, but the question remains whether they sample 256 bits of that randomness and produce relevant SEED from it or use those 256 bit from Avalanche to feed BRNG for subsiquent SEED generation.
Latter means that some deterministic rule is applied to Avalanche's entropy to get random number for the final SEED.
I'm not sure about that; from what I can tell, the noise_get_random_uint16 function returns one byte by xor'ing the two analog outputs of the avalanche circuit, four times.Latter means that some deterministic rule is applied to Avalanche's entropy to get random number for the final SEED.
ret = adc_read_noise_inputs(&noise1, &noise2);
[...]
r ^= noise1 ^ noise2;
[...]
r ^= noise1 ^ noise2;
I can't find a function that feeds this to a PRNG (pseudo RNG); the result just gets used by different functions that e.g. fill buffers with multiple random bytes (acquired by repeatedly calling noise_get_random_uint16).
But maybe @foundationdvcs can give a more definitive answer on that.
I'm curious how you got the idea that they would feed the avalanche entropy into a PRNG..
As far as I can tell, it is not running all the time. I would assume that NOISE_BIAS_EN is only set to high when they want to sample some randomness.
Well, OK, but the question remains whether they sample 256 bits of that randomness and produce relevant SEED from it or use those 256 bit from Avalanche to feed BRNG for subsiquent SEED generation.
Latter means that some deterministic rule is applied to Avalanche's entropy to get random number for the final SEED.
BTW, I have changed my mind as to implementation of password feature in Passport and must confess their decision to erase it from memory at shut down is the best one in term of security.
@foundationdvcs, Passport uses Avalanche diode as a source for its TRNG.
In this regard, I'm curious to know if this diode is in continuous operation so that SEED is generated exclusively from entropy it provided or Avalanche's noise is used to generate initial entropy that subsequently feeds BRNG with relevant SEED being generated?
Quote from: https://foundationdevices.com/passport/
In this regard, I'm curious to know if this diode is in continuous operation so that SEED is generated exclusively from entropy it provided or Avalanche's noise is used to generate initial entropy that subsequently feeds BRNG with relevant SEED being generated?
Here we can see the schematic and PCB location of the Avalanche circuit.
If you take a knife, you can tear off that cap to reveal the inside component of the battery.
[...]
Do it at your own risk, of course.
Knives and batteries are not the best combination.. [...]
Do it at your own risk, of course.
This is not a big deal, but I would like to be able to have few spare batteries I can easily swap anytime... so everyone make sure to have correct BL-5C battery (not similar BL-5CB model)
I remember years ago when I needed spare batteries due to my work, there was a little trick you could do to get a slightly bigger battery to fit in place. Most batteries have like a plastic cap on one side, maybe on both. If you take a knife, you can tear off that cap to reveal the inside component of the battery. It's going to look weird and be a bit sticky because the cap is glued to the battery. However, you get an additional millimeter or two in size reduction, which might be just enough to get the battery to fit inside the device. Do it at your own risk, of course.
@foundationdvcs, Passport uses Avalanche diode as a source for its TRNG.
This means that BL-5C that is supported by Passport will give a longer battery time and will fit perfectly.
Yeah, and besides, such compatibility allows to replace original Passport battery at crossing customs borders and disguise a bit the real thing.
This means that BL-5C that is supported by Passport will give a longer battery time and will fit perfectly.
Yeah, and besides, such compatibility allows to replace original Passport battery at crossing customs borders and disguise a bit the real thing.
@foundationdvcs, it would be good to check the links of your resellers now that many have decided to find a replacement for Ledger&Trezor. I was happy when I saw that one of the IT stores in my country sells you HW, but such a product does not exist in their store (unfortunately) - link. Also, the prices at other shops (EU) are still unchanged, even the prices are over 300 EUR.
The only reseller that I saw reflecting the latest price was Bitcoin Brabant[1] (sold all their units[2] and are now waiting for more[3]). They also add additional tamper bags for your shipment and delete your data as soon as your order ship, which is great for privacy[4]. Sadly it seems that some resellers in EU are hit or miss - either they only have the Foundation batch (with the initial price), no stock at all from neither devices, or the Batch 2 original price (some with no stock as well). Bitcoin Brabant seems to be the one leading the race in having more stock soon[3] and being a reliable reseller.[1]https://bitcoinbrabant.com/product/foundation-passport/
[2]https://nitter.it/BitcoinBrabant/status/1658837864724013063
[3]https://nitter.it/BitcoinBrabant/status/1659764123616378881
[4]https://nitter.it/BitcoinBrabant/status/1658294784228728838
@foundationdvcs, it would be good to check the links of your resellers now that many have decided to find a replacement for Ledger&Trezor. I was happy when I saw that one of the IT stores in my country sells you HW, but such a product does not exist in their store (unfortunately) - link. Also, the prices at other shops (EU) are still unchanged, even the prices are over 300 EUR.
Question for those who ordered directly from the US to the EU, how much extra did you pay for shipping costs, customs, VAT?
Question for those who ordered directly from the US to the EU, how much extra did you pay for shipping costs, customs, VAT?
Actual BL-5C do fit though, right? I will look for one and reply to this if I'm successful.
Yes it fits perfectly.Original Nokia battery BL-5C have slight variations for mobile phones with different size and power between BL-5C, BL-5CA and BL-5CB.
Battery capacity is also different:
- BL-5C is 970 mAh
- BL-5CA is 700 mAh
- BL-5CB is 800 mAh
This means that BL-5C that is supported by Passport will give a longer battery time and will fit perfectly.
Actual BL-5C do fit though, right? I will look for one and reply to this if I'm successful.
BL-5C fits Passport 2 perfectly. Just have checked it.
Quote
As a reminder, Passport comes with everything you need to get started, including a replaceable and rechargeable battery, an industrial-grade 8GB microSD card, microSD adapters for Android and iPhone, and a USB-C cable for charging.
Nice move with this discount that landed perfectly during ledger collapse 
$199 is perfect price, cheaper and better than Trezor T and most other hardware wallets.
That being said, we still want a cheaper version, something like Passport A, similar like there are Pixel 7 and Pixel 7A smartphones
Similar as Apple did it back in the day with the iPhone 5C (released alongside the 5S, with iPhone 5 internals and cheap, but nice and colorful shell).
Of course, this only works if we assume that the hardware is significantly cheaper than Batch 2 hardware and that the quite premium looking and feeling shell of the FE is relatively expensive to manufacture. I believe having read somewhere that they cast metal parts in the U.S.
I was wondering about Nokia batteries compatibility and I remember you guys said they should be compatible with old Nokia batteries.
There was a guy who tried doing this and old Nokia battery was not fitting the case of Passport, even if they look almost identical in size.
This is not a big deal, but I would like to be able to have few spare batteries I can easily swap anytime... so everyone make sure to have correct BL-5C battery (not similar BL-5CB model)
Actual BL-5C do fit though, right? I will look for one and reply to this if I'm successful. There was a guy who tried doing this and old Nokia battery was not fitting the case of Passport, even if they look almost identical in size.
This is not a big deal, but I would like to be able to have few spare batteries I can easily swap anytime... so everyone make sure to have correct BL-5C battery (not similar BL-5CB model)
As a reminder, Passport comes with everything you need to get started, including a replaceable and rechargeable battery, an industrial-grade 8GB microSD card, microSD adapters for Android and iPhone, and a USB-C cable for charging.
Nice move with this discount that landed perfectly during ledger collapse $199 is perfect price, cheaper and better than Trezor T and most other hardware wallets.
That being said, we still want a cheaper version, something like Passport A, similar like there are Pixel 7 and Pixel 7A smartphones
I was wondering about Nokia batteries compatibility and I remember you guys said they should be compatible with old Nokia batteries.
There was a guy who tried doing this and old Nokia battery was not fitting the case of Passport, even if they look almost identical in size.
This is not a big deal, but I would like to be able to have few spare batteries I can easily swap anytime... so everyone make sure to have correct BL-5C battery (not similar BL-5CB model)
(...)
Ramping up manufacturing was definitely the core reason here as we can bring down costs due to better economies of scale. We also wanted to move away from discounts and sales and focus on just providing the best price we can overall to every buyer, regardless of how they find us or when they want to purchase, no need to wait for Black Friday or similar!
Those are really great news considering the current time we experience where both Trezor and Ledger fallen from grace. Really looking forward to see this price impact on your resellers (which I suppose will take their time considering that they have to clear the units that they have acquired at the prior price point). Ramping up manufacturing was definitely the core reason here as we can bring down costs due to better economies of scale. We also wanted to move away from discounts and sales and focus on just providing the best price we can overall to every buyer, regardless of how they find us or when they want to purchase, no need to wait for Black Friday or similar!
It’s time we bring freedom tech and self-custody to more people with Passport.
https://foundationdevices.com/passport
We’re reducing Passport’s price to $199, making it more accessible than ever to secure your Bitcoin with beautifully designed hardware that is open-source and easy-to-use.
As we ramp up manufacturing and lower our costs, we’re passing those savings directly to you.
As a result we’ll be ending discounts moving forward; you’ll always get the best price on Passport up-front, no coupon codes necessary.
If you bought Passport in the last 90 days, we’re happy to offer you a $50 gift card as a thank you:
https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/
Incredible news! A $60 price drop really puts this device in a very competitive price (iirc $199 was the preselling price). Considering the burning house that Ledger is currently facing[1] I wouldn't be surprised that you guys get some orders in the coming days due to this. Was the manufacturing costs the sole reason that you were able to reduce the price or there were other factors as well?https://foundationdevices.com/passport
We’re reducing Passport’s price to $199, making it more accessible than ever to secure your Bitcoin with beautifully designed hardware that is open-source and easy-to-use.
As we ramp up manufacturing and lower our costs, we’re passing those savings directly to you.
As a result we’ll be ending discounts moving forward; you’ll always get the best price on Passport up-front, no coupon codes necessary.
If you bought Passport in the last 90 days, we’re happy to offer you a $50 gift card as a thank you:
https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/
[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ledger-recovery-send-your-encrypted-recovery-phrase-to-3rd-parties-entities-5452900
Especially considering you get everything you need in the box no matter what, no need for extra accessories, batteries, microSD cards etc. -- it's all included for every buyer.
Ramping up manufacturing was definitely the core reason here as we can bring down costs due to better economies of scale. We also wanted to move away from discounts and sales and focus on just providing the best price we can overall to every buyer, regardless of how they find us or when they want to purchase, no need to wait for Black Friday or similar!
It’s time we bring freedom tech and self-custody to more people with Passport.
https://foundationdevices.com/passport
We’re reducing Passport’s price to $199, making it more accessible than ever to secure your Bitcoin with beautifully designed hardware that is open-source and easy-to-use.
As we ramp up manufacturing and lower our costs, we’re passing those savings directly to you.
As a result we’ll be ending discounts moving forward; you’ll always get the best price on Passport up-front, no coupon codes necessary.
If you bought Passport in the last 90 days, we’re happy to offer you a $50 gift card as a thank you:
https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/
Incredible news! A $60 price drop really puts this device in a very competitive price (iirc $199 was the preselling price). Considering the burning house that Ledger is currently facing[1] I wouldn't be surprised that you guys get some orders in the coming days due to this. Was the manufacturing costs the sole reason that you were able to reduce the price or there were other factors as well?https://foundationdevices.com/passport
We’re reducing Passport’s price to $199, making it more accessible than ever to secure your Bitcoin with beautifully designed hardware that is open-source and easy-to-use.
As we ramp up manufacturing and lower our costs, we’re passing those savings directly to you.
As a result we’ll be ending discounts moving forward; you’ll always get the best price on Passport up-front, no coupon codes necessary.
If you bought Passport in the last 90 days, we’re happy to offer you a $50 gift card as a thank you:
https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/
[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ledger-recovery-send-your-encrypted-recovery-phrase-to-3rd-parties-entities-5452900
It’s time we bring freedom tech and self-custody to more people with Passport.
https://foundationdevices.com/passport
We’re reducing Passport’s price to $199, making it more accessible than ever to secure your Bitcoin with beautifully designed hardware that is open-source and easy-to-use.
As we ramp up manufacturing and lower our costs, we’re passing those savings directly to you.
As a result we’ll be ending discounts moving forward; you’ll always get the best price on Passport up-front, no coupon codes necessary.
If you bought Passport in the last 90 days, we’re happy to offer you a $50 gift card as a thank you:
https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/
As a reminder, Passport comes with everything you need to get started, including a replaceable and rechargeable battery, an industrial-grade 8GB microSD card, microSD adapters for Android and iPhone, and a USB-C cable for charging.
Simply open the box and get started at $199.
https://foundationdevices.com/passport
We’re reducing Passport’s price to $199, making it more accessible than ever to secure your Bitcoin with beautifully designed hardware that is open-source and easy-to-use.
As we ramp up manufacturing and lower our costs, we’re passing those savings directly to you.
As a result we’ll be ending discounts moving forward; you’ll always get the best price on Passport up-front, no coupon codes necessary.
If you bought Passport in the last 90 days, we’re happy to offer you a $50 gift card as a thank you:
https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/
As a reminder, Passport comes with everything you need to get started, including a replaceable and rechargeable battery, an industrial-grade 8GB microSD card, microSD adapters for Android and iPhone, and a USB-C cable for charging.
Simply open the box and get started at $199.
First impressions of the passport2 firmware (v2.1.0 release version) on the Founders Edition hardware:
- Large dark UI areas and color gradients don't work really well in monochrome (maybe I just need to get used to it). I'd appreciate a 'light mode' at least as a software option, or maybe just as default.
- QR code recognition is blazing fast, no complaints there. QR code enters the picture and it's immediately picked up.
- Whole user interface feels faster, snappier than before!
That's fantastic to hear! We're so glad we can finally bring all of our awesome Founder's Edition users up to date with this, so it's amazing to hear that it's working well from the first release
I'll definitely pass on the thoughts around a light mode to the team as well.
How can I know this? I suppose there is a need for preliminary info on that fingeprint to answer if it is correct or not. Where can I get that info?
You make a note of it (if you want) when you first enter the passphrase. You then compare the fingerprint with what you've written down when you enter your passphrase in the future to confirm that you have indeed entered your passphrase correctly and not made a typo anywhere.
After applying my passphrase to SEED the message "Fingeprint correct?" followed by fingeprint itself in the form of XXXXXXXX is shown on the screen of Passport.
How can I know this? I suppose there is a need for preliminary info on that fingeprint to answer if it is correct or not. Where can I get that info?
Besides, in the current implementation the first characters of the long passphrase that doesn't fit the width of the screen are moving to the left and leave the screen, so that it is not possible to check what you have put in without using navigation joystick-button. I think it would be more reasonable to continue such long passphrase on new rows to make it all visible at once.
How can I know this? I suppose there is a need for preliminary info on that fingeprint to answer if it is correct or not. Where can I get that info?
Besides, in the current implementation the first characters of the long passphrase that doesn't fit the width of the screen are moving to the left and leave the screen, so that it is not possible to check what you have put in without using navigation joystick-button. I think it would be more reasonable to continue such long passphrase on new rows to make it all visible at once.
Jump to: