Pages:
Author

Topic: Foundation Passport Official Thread - page 11. (Read 6705 times)

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1298
August 28, 2023, 09:43:16 AM

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.
You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I do think it's worth it to just buy the completed product from Foundation though. Wink

It would cost, in my estimation more then half of the current price for Passport 2.Thus, after pondering on pros and cons ( time, money and nerves spent to do something wrong) for DIY Passport project I have took the red pill and bought the off-the-peg product.

My only regret is that I have bought it right two weeks before they reduced the price.


Please be sure to submit this form if you bought it just before the price decrease, we understand that it could have been frustrating and we've shared this broadly as a part of the price reduction:

https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/

That is good for any purchase in the 90d leading up to the price reduction.

It appears to be  not applicable to my case as I have bought Passport 2 from distributor  in a semi anonymous way during my business trip within EU. $50 is not a money which would force me to fill the form that requires some purchasing data (though restricted ones). Anyway, thanks for your generosity and  nice hardware wallet. I'm fully satisfied with my Passport 2.
copper member
Activity: 101
Merit: 255
August 28, 2023, 04:52:41 AM

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.
You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I do think it's worth it to just buy the completed product from Foundation though. Wink

It would cost, in my estimation more then half of the current price for Passport 2.Thus, after pondering on pros and cons ( time, money and nerves spent to do something wrong) for DIY Passport project I have took the red pill and bought the off-the-peg product.

My only regret is that I have bought it right two weeks before they reduced the price.


Please be sure to submit this form if you bought it just before the price decrease, we understand that it could have been frustrating and we've shared this broadly as a part of the price reduction:

https://foundationdevices.com/price-reduction/

That is good for any purchase in the 90d leading up to the price reduction.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
August 28, 2023, 12:13:53 AM
I wrote a small program that allows you to quickly check if a Bitcoin file has a transaction in it, and also checks whether it is a valid Bitcoin file and whether it is locked.
https://github.com/Humble2020/BitcoinFile-Verifier
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1298
August 27, 2023, 10:47:42 PM

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.
You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I do think it's worth it to just buy the completed product from Foundation though. Wink

It would cost, in my estimation more then half of the current price for Passport 2.Thus, after pondering on pros and cons ( time, money and nerves spent to do something wrong) for DIY Passport project I have took the red pill and bought the off-the-peg product.

My only regret is that I have bought it right two weeks before they reduced the price.
copper member
Activity: 101
Merit: 255
August 23, 2023, 08:10:20 PM
The minimum version is Android 10 for Envoy. Pro tip, you can check in the Play Store under "About" and it will list the "Required OS" versions!
How about pro tip for people who are using de-g00gled phones Wink



I'll bring it up with the team, would be good to have minimum requirements listed on the Github/alongside releases if it changes!

The minimum version is Android 10 for Envoy. Pro tip, you can check in the Play Store under "About" and it will list the "Required OS" versions!
How about pro tip for people who are using de-g00gled phones Wink

I know.. I know.. I know.. I am not exactly on topic, but I feel that I must say that it seems to me that you dkbit98 are more correct in the "proper" usage of the term "pro tip."

Usually a person would not necessarily want say "pro tip" for something that is actually serious.. because it does not tend to come off well, unless such person is wanting to be a bit facetious, ironic or even purposefully funny (or maybe even patronizingly funny to emphasize a point).. even though surely from a technical angle (which is admittedly scary for me to even think about my own personally attempting to de-googlizing all of my thing-a-lies), you are asking a question that you would like answered.. which is a kind of bonus.

Apologies if my initial comment came off negatively, I simply meant it to be helpful and didn't realize the connotations it could carry! The Play Store doesn't make it immediately apparent how to check the minimum Android version of apps.
legendary
Activity: 3962
Merit: 11519
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
August 23, 2023, 03:45:38 PM
The minimum version is Android 10 for Envoy. Pro tip, you can check in the Play Store under "About" and it will list the "Required OS" versions!
How about pro tip for people who are using de-g00gled phones Wink

I know.. I know.. I know.. I am not exactly on topic, but I feel that I must say that it seems to me that you dkbit98 are more correct in the "proper" usage of the term "pro tip."

Usually a person would not necessarily want say "pro tip" for something that is actually serious.. because it does not tend to come off well, unless such person is wanting to be a bit facetious, ironic or even purposefully funny (or maybe even patronizingly funny to emphasize a point).. even though surely from a technical angle (which is admittedly scary for me to even think about my own personally attempting to de-googlizing all of my thing-a-lies), you are asking a question that you would like answered.. which is a kind of bonus.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
August 23, 2023, 12:57:47 PM
I don't think 3D printing works with electronic components. Except for maybe the case as dkbit98 hinted.
It's not that hard to make your of PCB's, I saw many tutorials posted online, but it can be tricky if you are doing it for the first time.

Where's that?
I was thinking this could be possible in theory  Wink

I'm not sure, but according to their docs, Flutter apps should run on Android versions that support the API version 21 to 34
Hmmm that's strange, it should work.
I even tried it one Android emulator with newer Android version but I couldn't start Envoy app.
Most of the other apps I checked before in my testing worked just with this emulator.

The minimum version is Android 10 for Envoy. Pro tip, you can check in the Play Store under "About" and it will list the "Required OS" versions!
How about pro tip for people who are using de-g00gled phones Wink

copper member
Activity: 101
Merit: 255
August 22, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.
I don't think you will have success running it on an outdated Android OS. It requires Android 10 and newer according to the information available on the About page on the Play Store. You can check it here. Click on the arrow next to About this app and it will display the needed information.

Edit: Oops, seems like foundationdvcs was about 2 mins faster.

Great minds think alike  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
August 22, 2023, 01:32:16 PM
Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.
I don't think you will have success running it on an outdated Android OS. It requires Android 10 and newer according to the information available on the About page on the Play Store. You can check it here. Click on the arrow next to About this app and it will display the needed information.

Edit: Oops, seems like foundationdvcs was about 2 mins faster.
copper member
Activity: 101
Merit: 255
August 22, 2023, 01:30:40 PM
In general I can count on fingers all Android Bitcoin wallets, and most of them are not good.
Good mobile wallet should be open source, with option to run full node and option to connect with multiple brand of hardware wallets, or to work standalone.
I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.
One thing I'd appreciate is some kind of (hidden) log view where you can see whether / if it is stuck somewhere, e.g. when connecting to Tor, connecting to the server or something else. Just to make troubleshooting easier.

Noted, we do have some logging now that can be triggered but it has to be viewed externally. Will raise an internal issue on this!


Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!
That sounds great! I usually try beta releases anyways, so I'll make sure to create GitHub issues whenever I find some bug or issue, from now on.
How about more hardware based issues / bugs / vulnerabilities?

Absolutely! We do have a separate vulnerabilities program for security issues that should be used for those types of reports, but for general bugs or issues they can definitely be submitted on Github. Our focus with the Early Access Rewards program is testing out firmware releases, but if you submit issues in Github that are tangential we'll take them on a case-by-case basis if they're fitting for rewards.

I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.
Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.

The minimum version is Android 10 for Envoy. Pro tip, you can check in the Play Store under "About" and it will list the "Required OS" versions!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
August 22, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
I think it would be cool to order all parts in DIY kit package and assemble them at home, except parts that can be 3d printed anywhere.
This should reduce price significantly [emphasis mine] and I bet people would experiment more with printing custom cases.
Cool? Yes. Cheaper? That's actually not always the case. I am no expert on product development, margins and so on, but I've experienced this as a customer once: a product which was offered as a fully assembled and DIY version, was cheaper to buy fully assembled.
I'm not sure if this is always the case, of course, as that was just one experience.

I imagine that it could also be a significant logistical overhead / nightmare to keep track of who bought a fully assembled, tested and QC'd device, who built it themselves, how to handle warranty cases, etc. to the point that any savings in assembly cost would be eaten up in the process.

If you are talking about PCB, this part can be ordered directly from Passport website, but I never made multilayer printed circuit board and I don't know how complicated this is.
Where's that?

Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.
I'm not sure, but according to their docs, Flutter apps should run on Android versions that support the API version 21 to 34:

How many people actually know how to connect the electronics together given the board? You'd basically have to be either an electronics engineer or a hobbyist to figure it out correctly.
That's all in the source files; since Passport is an open-source, open-hardware device. Although building one from scratch does certainly require some amount of skill.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
August 22, 2023, 05:40:25 AM
I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.
You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I don't think 3D printing works with electronic components. Except for maybe the case as dkbit98 hinted.

It seems that Foundation already provides the PCB designs so you don't have to worry about reconstructing it on that front - but how many people actually know how to connect the electronics together given the board? You'd basically have to be either an electronics engineer or a hobbyist to figure it out correctly.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
August 21, 2023, 04:33:49 PM
Foundation Devices already does this - If you go here[1] you'll find all the files that are used to produce Passport Batch 2. These files are specially handy if you need to replace a specific part of your device (or if you prefer to create a more custom look for it).
I know about this, but I think it would be cool to order all parts in DIY kit package and assemble them at home, except parts that can be 3d printed anywhere.
This should reduce price significantly and I bet people would experiment more with printing custom cases.

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.
If you are talking about PCB, this part can be ordered directly from Passport website, but I never made multilayer printed circuit board and I don't know how complicated this is.

I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.
Do you know what is oldest Android version needed to run Envoy.
I tried on one older phone and I couldn't install it, and I even tried directly with .apk file, forced install but I could not open the app.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
August 21, 2023, 05:44:36 AM
Join our Envoy and Passport Early Access Rewards Program & Earn Bitcoin!

 Be the first to report any reproducible issue for Passport or Envoy beta releases and get a 10k Satoshi bounty in Bitcoin!
That sounds great! I usually try beta releases anyways, so I'll make sure to create GitHub issues whenever I find some bug or issue, from now on.
How about more hardware based issues / bugs / vulnerabilities?

In general I can count on fingers all Android Bitcoin wallets, and most of them are not good.
Good mobile wallet should be open source, with option to run full node and option to connect with multiple brand of hardware wallets, or to work standalone.
I've tried Envoy and it connects to my electrs server running on my Bitcoin node over Tor without issues.
One thing I'd appreciate is some kind of (hidden) log view where you can see whether / if it is stuck somewhere, e.g. when connecting to Tor, connecting to the server or something else. Just to make troubleshooting easier.

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.
You should be able to just upload the Gerber files to a PCB manufacturer like PCBWay and get them to assemble the board for you, as well. Then print the housing, add keypad, camera and screen and put it all together.

I do think it's worth it to just buy the completed product from Foundation though. Wink
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1298
August 20, 2023, 01:27:35 AM
Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport Wink

I have already entertained thoughts of  DIY Passport. After studying their docs I have understood that the most challenging for me part of  such DIY project would be  the making of multilayer printed circuit board rather than 3d printing. For me, it would be hard, even impossible, to make at home.

Sure I could  order its manufacture on the side but it would  cost.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 3117
August 19, 2023, 04:09:07 PM
Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport Wink
Foundation Devices already does this - If you go here[1] you'll find all the files that are used to produce Passport Batch 2. These files are specially handy if you need to replace a specific part of your device (or if you prefer to create a more custom look for it).

[1]https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport2-hardware/tree/main/mechanical/STEP%20Files
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
August 19, 2023, 03:27:19 PM
Hype is pretty accurate IMO  Grin Our team's 3D printers have been brrr'ing non-stop for the past few months with prototypes...
Prototypes of new devices?
That sounds interesting and I know people who would be interested in participating some kind of beta testing program.
Even sharing .stl files for 3d printing and option to assemble our own devices would be a good idea, something like DIY Passport Wink

Oh, absolutely! Ideally we will have far more Envoy users than Passport users due to it's functionality as an easy-to-use Bitcoin mobile wallet, and would love testers with or without Passport. If you have a Passport there is obviously more functionality to test out, but the majority of the growth in the app planned is on the mobile side that anyone with a smartphone can test out.
Nice.
I see lot of people having a problem to find good open source mobile wallet for Bitcoin, so I will download and test how Envoy works.
In general I can count on fingers all Android Bitcoin wallets, and most of them are not good.
Good mobile wallet should be open source, with option to run full node and option to connect with multiple brand of hardware wallets, or to work standalone.

Yeah, my Passport 2 is equipped with SanDisk Industrial XI 8 GB micro card which  is marked as Industrial but if you look at its  NAND Flash Tech and Endurance (main specs that differ cards) it is closer to Commercial grade (or one may call it Industrial MLC) rather than Industrial one, which is sigh-induced situation in this case.
But you won't use that sd-card all the time, not even near like you would use it in camera, phones or other devices, so chances of getting it corrupted in next few years is minimal to none (unless you operate centralized exchange cold storage).
sr. member
Activity: 658
Merit: 326
CONTEST ORGANIZER
August 19, 2023, 09:34:51 AM
Well that its ok, but i still think it can be risky thinking on long term. A lot of years ago, i buy some high quality SD cards, and ended up not being so much diferent than cheap ones, only in speed terms they were far better. I know like you said industrial ones can be much better and diferent but i have my doubts after losing some very important memories thanks to corrupted Sdcards files.
If you are interested in learning more about the SD card that is bundled with Passport, you can check out the datasheet here[1]. The NAND Flash Technology that the card uses is MLC (Multi-level cell) which is the second best option (the first one would be Single-level cell (SLC)):



Thanks man for sharing this info, im really impresed by the diference in the last one (QLC), welll anyways thanks all for your answer and i hope the best to the passport team, and also thank them for being active here and answer the questions of the comunity.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1298
August 19, 2023, 05:07:48 AM

I think they are using industrial grade micro sd card that are like night & day compared to regular consumer garbage sd cards.


Yeah, my Passport 2 is equipped with SanDisk Industrial XI 8 GB micro card which  is marked as Industrial but if you look at its  NAND Flash Tech and Endurance (main specs that differ cards) it is closer to Commercial grade (or one may call it Industrial MLC) rather than Industrial one, which is sigh-induced situation in this case.

https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/product/embedded-flash/industrial-sd-microsd-series/WDC_SanDisk_Industrial_SD_microSD_ProdBrief_020918.pdf
Quote



legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 3117
August 19, 2023, 05:02:55 AM
Well that its ok, but i still think it can be risky thinking on long term. A lot of years ago, i buy some high quality SD cards, and ended up not being so much diferent than cheap ones, only in speed terms they were far better. I know like you said industrial ones can be much better and diferent but i have my doubts after losing some very important memories thanks to corrupted Sdcards files.
If you are interested in learning more about the SD card that is bundled with Passport, you can check out the datasheet here[1]. The NAND Flash Technology that the card uses is MLC (Multi-level cell) which is the second best option (the first one would be Single-level cell (SLC)):

Quote from: (2)
MLC NAND
Pro: Cheaper than SLC - Con: Slower and less endurance than SLC

Multi-level cell (MLC) NAND stores multiple bits per cell, although the term MLC typically equates to 2 bits per cell. MLC has a higher data density than SLC so can therefore be produced in larger capacities. MLC has a good combination of price, performance, and endurance. However, MLC is more sensitive to data errors with 10,000 P/E cycles and therefore has a lower endurance compared to SLC. MLC is usually found in consumer products where endurance is less important.

[1]https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/669/SanDisk_02052018_SDSDAF3_SDSDQAF3-1285144.pdf
[2]https://www.kingston.com/unitedkingdom/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-between-slc-mlc-tlc-3d-nand
Pages:
Jump to: