My goal is to get a PC that runs completely on green energy that I created for as long as possible per day and have bitcoins pay for it with an initial investment of around $300 (not counting the computer). 
Topic: FREE BITCOINS -- Environmentally conscious mining! (Read 13071 times)
I mostly just read the initial post but I'm trying to do a much smaller scale project and know quite a bit about inverters and electricity and equipment and stuff. Possibly not more than you but maybe enough to help My goal is to get a PC that runs completely on green energy that I created for as long as possible per day and have bitcoins pay for it with an initial investment of around $300 (not counting the computer).
My goal is to get a PC that runs completely on green energy that I created for as long as possible per day and have bitcoins pay for it with an initial investment of around $300 (not counting the computer). 
You are still burning "fuel", Nickel is currently $10/pound. Without an efficient method of reverting the reaction (it would absorb heat instead, thus drain energy) you can run the generator for a limited time. And you get copper as a residue, pretty cool, we need copper right?
But wait, it gets better. All the nickel in nature is already binded to other elements and is present as salts. You need to mine it, clean it up, refine it ... which surprise! requires roasting, aka heat to unbind it's atoms from the other elements and create the pure form needed for a reactor.
It's like showing an aluminum-air battery and touting it as free energy from thin air, forgetting to mention you need more energy to purify the aluminum than to spend it as a fuel.
But wait, it gets better. All the nickel in nature is already binded to other elements and is present as salts. You need to mine it, clean it up, refine it ... which surprise! requires roasting, aka heat to unbind it's atoms from the other elements and create the pure form needed for a reactor.
It's like showing an aluminum-air battery and touting it as free energy from thin air, forgetting to mention you need more energy to purify the aluminum than to spend it as a fuel.
The net energy released can still be positive. Remember, nuclear reactions generate energies orders of magnitude greater than chemical reactions. The claim Rossi is making is that the energy he is generating is greater than the cost of refining the nickel in the reaction and producing the hydrogen. Like I said before, I am skeptical but it could work.
This is more like burning oil pumped from the ground (react a resource to release energy) than it is like a battery (release energy put into the system).
Still no idea why nobody could replicate it.
Check out the Rossi Catalyzer
In this thread we abide to the Laws of Thermodynamics. Sorry 
On a serious note, uneducated people have a hard time figuring out what parts of an energy reactor are the actual reactor and which are the actual fuel. Examples include: Bedinni magnets, carbon-iron alloy cast hidrogen car engine, atomic nuclei...
I looked into the rossi catalyzer, and it does not violate the laws of thermodynamics. Whether it is a hoax or not is yet to be seen, but the underlying physics *could work. Essentially the idea is to take NiH at raised temperature and pressure and they report seeing fusion of the Ni + H to get Cu. The nuclear reaction is exothermic, so if it is what they say it is then it should produce power.
*This would require a mechanism for the proton to overcome the culombic barrier, which could be from any of these sources: 1) proton has enough energy to go over barrier; 2) quantum tunneling through barrier; or 3) lowering of the barrier by a catalyst. I have not gone over the numbers in rigorous detail, but 1 is out because at the temperatures they are running this is very unlikely. 3 is improbable because there are no other reported nuclear reaction that use a catalyst, that is restricted to purely chemical reactions. 2 is possible, more research nescessarry before making a conclusion.
Sorry to bring in chemistry/physics, but this has been bouncing around in my brain the past couple days.
You are still burning "fuel", Nickel is currently $10/pound. Without an efficient method of reverting the reaction (it would absorb heat instead, thus drain energy) you can run the generator for a limited time. And you get copper as a residue, pretty cool, we need copper right?
But wait, it gets better. All the nickel in nature is already binded to other elements and is present as salts. You need to mine it, clean it up, refine it ... which surprise! requires roasting, aka heat to unbind it's atoms from the other elements and create the pure form needed for a reactor.
It's like showing an aluminum-air battery and touting it as free energy from thin air, forgetting to mention you need more energy to purify the aluminum than to spend it as a fuel.
@BombaUcigasa your project goes ok? If yes I and suppose the others would love to see some stats even if they are raw. Year sun radiation kwh/m2 for example. I'll keep my eye on this thread and wish you luck with the project.
Can't start implementing it yet, I want to confirm myself I understand how the bitcoin price functions and I can rely on the profitability of bitcoin to lock-in produced energy into a non-decaying storage medium. Unused energy is forever lost. With bitcoin, whatever extra energy I don't use, I can store for "later". Expect a clear go or no-go at the end of July. I also have to rework my original premises to include solar tracking (because it is really effective) and tall pylons (because nature invaded everything, trees are tall and thick during these months, and it adds security against thieves and vandals, good luck climbing a smooth two-storey pole)I did some research and used some database simulations for these specs. Year sun radiation is about 1400W/m2 on average (actual 1050W/m2 with normal performance). With equatorial declination (+6% output) and horizontal tracking (+30% output) you can get even more. Also during the winter the output is down to 500W/m2 on cloudy days but it can also get to 4000W/m2 in the clear summer days.
Average:
Summer months:
Also wind conditions show an yearly average of 3m/s. Maximal winds (witnessed last week) can go up to 14m/s, and some days winds can be below 1m/s. This region is sub-optimal for wind harvesting, but with cheap and adapted designs it can still be done pretty cheap.
Why not just rent space at a local power generator (hydro)? The owner/operator would eagerly rent you space and sell you very very cheap electricity...
This is especially true for countries outside of U.S. where everyone is looking for extra income.
The other option is to produce your own electricity and sell back to the grid. Then, your per Kw cost could be 0. The only problem with this option is how much is the capital expense? If we had solar technology that was much more efficient than it is today, this would work nicely.
No hydros close-by, and if there were any, the security and housing costs would replace the electricity saving costs This is especially true for countries outside of U.S. where everyone is looking for extra income.
The other option is to produce your own electricity and sell back to the grid. Then, your per Kw cost could be 0. The only problem with this option is how much is the capital expense? If we had solar technology that was much more efficient than it is today, this would work nicely.
Now, if you had land in either a rainy area, or along a river, like in the hills or the mountains, definitely worth to invest in a small power generator.
I would also love to be able to sell power to the grid. It's no possible for me, the two companies in our country have effectively 0.00% of their output produced by solar installations. ZERO. We have more sun than Germany, and they produce in some areas up to 60% of their electricity from the sun. I could also benefit from overclocking and overdriving the miners during over-nominal output (day-long full summer sunny days) and tune back and draw from the grid when needed. I would not require any batteries either!
I don't think your math, if you done any, holds up here. I'm a bit surprised there is even a renewable expert in this thread and he basically agreed to this?
That's because everyone's situation is different. Prices, equipment costs, man-hours of work, existing resources and equipment, etc...First of all .. not even start to think about the bitcoin part, I don't even know where to begin. Solar panels cost approx 2500e to 3500e per kWh to build, then you looking at some cost per year to maintain it, and then there is a fact that they lose about 1% of output power per year. The cheaper, China version, even more. Their lifespan is 40yrs at best. Most European governments pay huge subsidiaries to built renewable energy because they are obligated to get to certain % of all energy to be renewable by the year 2025. Panel efficiency is around 18 to 22%, this will change greatly in the next 10 to 15 years, so your solar plant would be obsolete way before it becomes useless after 40years.
I have to agree with you. Solar panels, when acquired and installed under warranty from a public agent, will cost over 2.5$/W. I intend to buy the panels myself at 1$/W and build the arrays, supports, and recycle some existing equipment and buy some new stuff for the power inverters and the other stuff. I don't want 40 years, I expect 15-20 years at most from the cells, which can be recycled, reused, replaced on the way, with newer and better ones. Yes, efficiency will go up. Start early, optimize on the go.Huge subsidiaries are not making their way over here. They are small. So small that for this year, all the existing requests exceed the whole yearly budget. That is, if I apply today (holy shit bribing and elbowing and bureaucracy circus!!!), I might get a plan approved next year, I have to buy my stuff at extra markup from approved providers (eg, as you explain up to 5$/W!!!!), then I can get back some of my spent money when the budget arrives, in 2-3 years. Why would I want to do that (in Eastern Europe)?
Bitcoin part of the project is just plain silly. 1 Gh rigs won't produce ALMOST anything in the next 6 to 12 months. So you are basically building solar panels and throwing all the energy you produce into something that will get you no return at all. What you doing is, you basically speculating that bitcoin would be worth TONS in 20 to 40 years.
Unfortunately the difficulty rose too fast. It's true, I won't get much but recoup my investment in 2-3 years, if the price/difficulty parity remains the same. I have some checkpoints to ensure that I start the project, one of them is verifying that the bitcoin profitability will hold at the same level or increase during July. If indeed during this month nothing happens with the 3:1 market:cost ratio of bitcoin mining, I can't go ahead. If my predictions hold, then it's a go.There is an easy solution to all of this. Whatever is the total you wanted to invest in this whole project. Lets say $10k, just buy bitcoins and sit on them. No work, no problems, no nothing.
Except I won't have $10k invested in energy producing equipment which can be resold at a value and I will be bored 
@BombaUcigasa your project goes ok? If yes I and suppose the others would love to see some stats even if they are raw. Year sun radiation kwh/m2 for example. I'll keep my eye on this thread and wish you luck with the project.
I don't think your math, if you done any, holds up here. I'm a bit surprised there is even a renewable expert in this thread and he basically agreed to this?
First of all .. not even start to think about the bitcoin part, I don't even know where to begin. Solar panels cost approx 2500e to 3500e per kWh to build, then you looking at some cost per year to maintain it, and then there is a fact that they lose about 1% of output power per year. The cheaper, China version, even more. Their lifespan is 40yrs at best. Most European governments pay huge subsidiaries to built renewable energy because they are obligated to get to certain % of all energy to be renewable by the year 2025. Panel efficiency is around 18 to 22%, this will change greatly in the next 10 to 15 years, so your solar plant would be obsolete way before it becomes useless after 40years.
In short it would cost you tons more to produce this electricity for the next 15 to 20 if you wouldn't tun into ANY problems at all. This being rural Romania, you might get robbed with a type of neighbors you mentioned.
Bitcoin part of the project is just plain silly. 1 Gh rigs won't produce ALMOST anything in the next 6 to 12 months. So you are basically building solar panels and throwing all the energy you produce into something that will get you no return at all. What you doing is, you basically speculating that bitcoin would be worth TONS in 20 to 40 years.
There is an easy solution to all of this. Whatever is the total you wanted to invest in this whole project. Lets say $10k, just buy bitcoins and sit on them. No work, no problems, no nothing.
First of all .. not even start to think about the bitcoin part, I don't even know where to begin. Solar panels cost approx 2500e to 3500e per kWh to build, then you looking at some cost per year to maintain it, and then there is a fact that they lose about 1% of output power per year. The cheaper, China version, even more. Their lifespan is 40yrs at best. Most European governments pay huge subsidiaries to built renewable energy because they are obligated to get to certain % of all energy to be renewable by the year 2025. Panel efficiency is around 18 to 22%, this will change greatly in the next 10 to 15 years, so your solar plant would be obsolete way before it becomes useless after 40years.
In short it would cost you tons more to produce this electricity for the next 15 to 20 if you wouldn't tun into ANY problems at all. This being rural Romania, you might get robbed with a type of neighbors you mentioned.
Bitcoin part of the project is just plain silly. 1 Gh rigs won't produce ALMOST anything in the next 6 to 12 months. So you are basically building solar panels and throwing all the energy you produce into something that will get you no return at all. What you doing is, you basically speculating that bitcoin would be worth TONS in 20 to 40 years.
There is an easy solution to all of this. Whatever is the total you wanted to invest in this whole project. Lets say $10k, just buy bitcoins and sit on them. No work, no problems, no nothing.
Why not just rent space at a local power generator (hydro)? The owner/operator would eagerly rent you space and sell you very very cheap electricity...
This is especially true for countries outside of U.S. where everyone is looking for extra income.
The other option is to produce your own electricity and sell back to the grid. Then, your per Kw cost could be 0. The only problem with this option is how much is the capital expense? If we had solar technology that was much more efficient than it is today, this would work nicely.
Rossi's stuff, if real, would disrupt the whole world as we know it!
A huge part of me wishes he's for real. A small part of me tells me, if it's too good to be true it probably is.
This is especially true for countries outside of U.S. where everyone is looking for extra income.
The other option is to produce your own electricity and sell back to the grid. Then, your per Kw cost could be 0. The only problem with this option is how much is the capital expense? If we had solar technology that was much more efficient than it is today, this would work nicely.
Rossi's stuff, if real, would disrupt the whole world as we know it!
A huge part of me wishes he's for real. A small part of me tells me, if it's too good to be true it probably is.
For me, electricity takes up about 10% or more of our profits. One of my friend's dad in our collective mining operation (a whopping 1Ghash) is currently working on getting a wind turbine up and running. The original goal of the turbine was to power his beer chiller in his barn. It might eventually power our rigs. He recently added a gear ratio to get the generator up to the proper RPM. But unfortunately, the mounting was not strong enough and severely damaged all three of the blades. (when he was testing it, he was using blades a company lent his to try them out. $200 right there. ouch.)
He works at a local telecommunications company and when they upgraded their old telephone system, they let him take their 24v battery array off their hands - for free. Each of these batteries weigh in around 300 lbs and there are twelve of them. They have a 20-25 year lifespan and are only about 5 years old. I've tried to get him to understand that his battery bank is way larger than most people use for his setup.
*reading up on Rossi Catalyzer*
The idea looks good. Definitely much better than previous low-energy nuclear reactions. If they could demonstrate a device using this method that would power itself as well as other devices, then they could legitimize themselves a bit more. As far as the scope of the this thread is concerned, this technology is out of reach for home/DIY use. If they ever did make a reasonably priced, self-contained power and hot water generator, I'd buy it.
He works at a local telecommunications company and when they upgraded their old telephone system, they let him take their 24v battery array off their hands - for free. Each of these batteries weigh in around 300 lbs and there are twelve of them. They have a 20-25 year lifespan and are only about 5 years old. I've tried to get him to understand that his battery bank is way larger than most people use for his setup.
*reading up on Rossi Catalyzer*
The idea looks good. Definitely much better than previous low-energy nuclear reactions. If they could demonstrate a device using this method that would power itself as well as other devices, then they could legitimize themselves a bit more. As far as the scope of the this thread is concerned, this technology is out of reach for home/DIY use. If they ever did make a reasonably priced, self-contained power and hot water generator, I'd buy it.
Check out the Rossi Catalyzer
In this thread we abide to the Laws of Thermodynamics. Sorry On a serious note, uneducated people have a hard time figuring out what parts of an energy reactor are the actual reactor and which are the actual fuel. Examples include: Bedinni magnets, carbon-iron alloy cast hidrogen car engine, atomic nuclei...
Funny how one comes on to a technology oriented forum involving a discussion about alternative energy, and even then, is instantly personally attacked for merely making a suggestion to review a technology. I don't know if you have looked out a window since you opened up your high-school text books, but things are changing pretty fast. History always welcomes technological breakthrough's with open arms right? If it was real you'd have seen it on TV by now...
If you can explain what you understood from the "Rossi Catalyzer" other than "hurr durr it produces free energy by unknown means", then you should continue promoting it. If you can't explain anything more, you should check your position on the issue, the feeling of being right is not necessarily something that arises from logic or reality, it can be a purely subjective result.
sounds great and all but i think you'd be better of investing all that infrastructure capital in more mining equipment and using a spare room.
then offsetting your pollution through your electricity company if it has that option, or just planting a food garden/trees on your land instead.
The greenery of the orchid, surrounding trees and wild plants is quite overwhelming at this time of the year. I just visited the place and basically I couldn't find enough land area to plan the solar arrays. Some of the power can be used to pump water from the ground (especially during the summer days when using the extra sun is impossible, batteries are charged, heat prevents extra compute or capacity already full), so gardening is possible.then offsetting your pollution through your electricity company if it has that option, or just planting a food garden/trees on your land instead.
I need to look into more info on how to put solar arrays high up on poles, otherwise they won't get full exposure all day.
sounds great and all but i think you'd be better of investing all that infrastructure capital in more mining equipment and using a spare room.
then offsetting your pollution through your electricity company if it has that option, or just planting a food garden/trees on your land instead.
then offsetting your pollution through your electricity company if it has that option, or just planting a food garden/trees on your land instead.
Check out the Rossi Catalyzer
In this thread we abide to the Laws of Thermodynamics. Sorry On a serious note, uneducated people have a hard time figuring out what parts of an energy reactor are the actual reactor and which are the actual fuel. Examples include: Bedinni magnets, carbon-iron alloy cast hidrogen car engine, atomic nuclei...
Funny how one comes on to a technology oriented forum involving a discussion about alternative energy, and even then, is instantly personally attacked for merely making a suggestion to review a technology. I don't know if you have looked out a window since you opened up your high-school text books, but things are changing pretty fast. History always welcomes technological breakthrough's with open arms right? If it was real you'd have seen it on TV by now...
Check out the Rossi Catalyzer
In this thread we abide to the Laws of Thermodynamics. Sorry On a serious note, uneducated people have a hard time figuring out what parts of an energy reactor are the actual reactor and which are the actual fuel. Examples include: Bedinni magnets, carbon-iron alloy cast hidrogen car engine, atomic nuclei...
Check out the Rossi Catalyzer
How expensive it is to build your own little molten salt Solar plant?
Well you could build one with just a little bit under $400M, it could serve 100.000 houses with a surface of 200ha. I guess one could reduce the design to a 1/10.000 ratio (40.000 USD, 5kW, 200sqm). Because it requires cooling water 5L/kWh, which would have to use energy to pump, it is not applicable due to the average precipitation levels in the area and the limited access to water reserves in the area. The advantage is overnight production from an efficient energy accumulator. The disadvantage is increased costs and lower efficiency compared to static silicon panels. 
How expensive it is to build your own little molten salt Solar plant?
I've been looking at solar power for my home recently, and have found its often much cheaper to lease solar systems rather than to buy them.
Not an option. Also I will be getting the solar systems cheaper by using my own work hours for assembly, paying only for things I can't do myself (such as pull a single 2m silicone monocrystal, slice it, coat it with rare minerals and protection layers).Another thought is that the slow discharge batteries used for solar systems tend to have a useful life span of only 5 years. Is this project off the grid by choice or is there a lack of access at the location? It could be cheaper and more sustainable for you to remain hooked to the grid for use at night. If your system is large enough to fully charge a battery bank, it should be large enough offset your nightly power usage so your energy costs remain zero. You might even get some subsidized incentives, in the USA having solar attached to the grid earns you renewable energy credits which can be sold to energy providers (energy companies are required to invest a certain amount of money in renewable energy or they are fined). I don't know if there is anything like this in Romania.
Batteries have a low life span, it's considered, you are being too kind with 5 years actually. Some days the power generators will produce extra power, some days they will not. Either way, I can't benefit from it by selling it to the grid, it's not an option here. I can only benefit if I store it myself (0.3$/Wh for batteries that suck up whatever my 1$/W solar cells and wind turbines produce, not bad).Have you considered the use of a gassifier? You can take any waste plant matter and convert it to combustible gas to power a generator.
If it requires manual handling and extra maintenance, I can't. Also I would need to procure fuel for it, and I won't be on the premises most of the time, I guess it's not an option. Could be interesting to use animal waste and useless agricultural residues that can't be turned into moonshine. This might be an option for other people.Used Veg oil is Free,.
It is not, I explained above. Solar energy is not free either, it costs 1$/W for 20 years for example.It may well be that photosynthesisis oil molecules is inneficient, but mother nature is doing the work, not the farmer, and as used veg oil is Free, it's efficiency skyrockets.
I used to use veg oil in my car regularly and know many people who use used veg oil.
Again, it's not an option for me, I would have to actually carry it for many miles, store it and burn it. Due to the fact that I need to burn it, and explaining that diesel is basically 10 times more expensive than solar, and considering your previous calculation, oil would be 5 times more expensive, I will briefly explain why:I used to use veg oil in my car regularly and know many people who use used veg oil.
- Solar rays hit the solar panel and convert E=mc2 energy with a 20% efficiency, for 12 hours a day (45 degrees N latitude), summer and winter, with no maintenance, requiring a 20m2 surface for 1000W.
- Solar rays hit the leaves of an oil-rich seed plant, during 4-6 months of a year, with a small surface efficiency (most of the rays go onto the ground), for 14 hours a day (summer), with some maintenance and extra costs, requiring a large surface, land taxes, land work, seed purchasing... etc
It's not an option for me, as I would have larger costs this way, and I think that it's a waste of a crop land to just burn the produce after taking care of it for a year. Solar is more efficient per time, per surface, per costs, per everything. It is an option for some people that could collect the vegetable oil and burn it themselves where solar energy would be costly or unavailable.
Used Veg oil is Free,.
Also, if it were so inneficient, farmers wouldn't be able to grow it and sell it for less than diesel, I know it costs the same now but that's only because the petrochems and govt hiked the price of veg oil up shortly after the Jeremy clrckson experiment.
Prior to that I was buying veg oii at 52p per liter, regular diesel was 100p oer liter, this is impossible according to your argument because it eats more energy than it gives out.
It may well be that photosynthesisis oil molecules is inneficient, but mother nature is doing the work, not the farmer, and as used veg oil is Free, it's efficiency skyrockets.
I used to use veg oil in my car regularly and know many people who use used veg oil.
In fact, just like Bitcoin, using used Veg oil as fuel is a booming industry, maybe BitCoin and Biodiesl should meet up, I'm not knocking solar, it's a faboulous technology but Biodiesel is 100% carbon neutral, the CO2 released by burning the oil is only that which was absorbed by the plant while it was growing, there is no NET CO2 gain to the atmospherre.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=veg+oil+biodiesel&btnG=Google+Search&aq=o&aqi=&aql=&oq=
Also, if it were so inneficient, farmers wouldn't be able to grow it and sell it for less than diesel, I know it costs the same now but that's only because the petrochems and govt hiked the price of veg oil up shortly after the Jeremy clrckson experiment.
Prior to that I was buying veg oii at 52p per liter, regular diesel was 100p oer liter, this is impossible according to your argument because it eats more energy than it gives out.
It may well be that photosynthesisis oil molecules is inneficient, but mother nature is doing the work, not the farmer, and as used veg oil is Free, it's efficiency skyrockets.
I used to use veg oil in my car regularly and know many people who use used veg oil.
In fact, just like Bitcoin, using used Veg oil as fuel is a booming industry, maybe BitCoin and Biodiesl should meet up, I'm not knocking solar, it's a faboulous technology but Biodiesel is 100% carbon neutral, the CO2 released by burning the oil is only that which was absorbed by the plant while it was growing, there is no NET CO2 gain to the atmospherre.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=veg+oil+biodiesel&btnG=Google+Search&aq=o&aqi=&aql=&oq=
Have you considered the use of a gassifier? You can take any waste plant matter and convert it to combustible gas to power a generator.
I've been looking at solar power for my home recently, and have found its often much cheaper to lease solar systems rather than to buy them. This could help reduce your start up costs. Most solar companies don't collect their systems after the lease ends, instead they either let you keep it or let you buy it for very very cheap. After the lease period (typically 10-25 years) the solar panels are too obsolete/warn for them to re-lease anyway.
Another thought is that the slow discharge batteries used for solar systems tend to have a useful life span of only 5 years. Is this project off the grid by choice or is there a lack of access at the location? It could be cheaper and more sustainable for you to remain hooked to the grid for use at night. If your system is large enough to fully charge a battery bank, it should be large enough offset your nightly power usage so your energy costs remain zero. You might even get some subsidized incentives, in the USA having solar attached to the grid earns you renewable energy credits which can be sold to energy providers (energy companies are required to invest a certain amount of money in renewable energy or they are fined). I don't know if there is anything like this in Romania.
Another thought is that the slow discharge batteries used for solar systems tend to have a useful life span of only 5 years. Is this project off the grid by choice or is there a lack of access at the location? It could be cheaper and more sustainable for you to remain hooked to the grid for use at night. If your system is large enough to fully charge a battery bank, it should be large enough offset your nightly power usage so your energy costs remain zero. You might even get some subsidized incentives, in the USA having solar attached to the grid earns you renewable energy credits which can be sold to energy providers (energy companies are required to invest a certain amount of money in renewable energy or they are fined). I don't know if there is anything like this in Romania.
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