Topic: freebitco.in an actual scam - page 2. (Read 15170 times)

I always ask for proof of any allegations. Where is yours?

  you always speak of dice game nobody speak of fishing attack and false betting proposal you forget that a scamer make good profit with fisching attack and false betting proposal and also betting on dice maybe lot of profit on dice and in another way a good profit in fisching attack and false betting proposal.with 20 millions users a single fisching proposal can make more than 100 btc of scam attack you knoxw what is fisching  you always have stupid boy who make a bet  in losE it s just free money for free bitcoin   YOU WANT TO DROWN THE FISCH ALWAY you speak technical for prooff your not a scamer but you are

I think anyone can see that have answered that many times and you still just keep repeating yourself without addressing my points. All you have done is repeat your opinions and failed to answer why using an algorithm on a provably fair site wouldn't leave them open to being exploited, failed to provide any proof that people lose less on sites with static seeds and failed to bring a single piece of evidence that backs up your assertions.


Of course it matters. If someone was player against an algorithm they would bet small until they knew the next result was going force them to lose, then they would bet max win on the opposite result. Unlike a non-provably fair casino the result is decided the moment they click roll and it can't be changed with out that being provable.


Of course it impossible to guess the next server seed as you only have the hash. It is also impossible in a static system unless you've cracked SHA256 in which case you wouldn't be wasting your time exploiting a casino.
It is also impossible for us to know if you change your client seed or not and guessing that would leave us open to being exploited.


I'll leave the readers to decide which of our opinions is stupid.

I think anyone can understand that when i say it's to the casino's benefit to change the server seed, because the POSSIBILITY a player will change his seed next bet is low if he doesn't change it previously. It doesn't matter how much the player bet next time, the casino only cares his chance of winning. Plus in this case only the client seed is known, there can be countless server seeds that will make the number locate in a specific region, so it's almost impossible to guess what the next server seed will be. You better understand more about provably fair that you keep talking about every time before you post your stupid point of view.

You are still pushing the lie that provably fair site use an algorithm to cheat people. You are only getting tired because you have no answer when I point out the floors in your argument.


It is part of my job to defend the site from false and libellous allegations. When someone posts falsehoods about us I give our side.



I understand completely. You are not the first person to get it wrong.


It doesn't answer it at all. It only takes one person to work it out with a max win of 20 BTC they would clean out the bankroll in no time. That is a huge risk.


Yes, it is a stupid question. The most important asset a casino has is its reputation. Exploiting players would put them out of business.


Just because you keep repeating the same thing doesn't make it true. A provably fair casino can't cheat without leaving evidence.


Your opinion repeated yet again with no evidence to back it up.


It does make it reasonable to question but that isn't what you are doing. You are making a false assertion that they cheat. The answer is obvious. The house edge gives the casino a small statistical advantage that means although some players win and others lose with a large enough sample size the house should come out on top overall.


That reason is mainly peoples natural reaction to losing.


Gambling isn't for everybody but there are a large number of people that gamble responsibly for fun. There are also many people that despise gambling and think it is evil. I'm a libertarian and believe that people should be able to make up their own minds what they do with their own money and it is nobody's place to preach to them.

I tried to make peace with this crazy guy because i'm tired of arguing but he just keeps pushing. Tell me how much is your soul worth? LMAO. You don't understand my point or you do and deliberately keep stressing yours, I said it's to the casino's benefit to selectively choose the seed if a player didn't change his client seed previously, because it's highly likely he won't change it for the next bet, that's why a casino has very little risk doing that. Does that answer your worry about people might work out the server seed and exploit it? It's a stupid question but why is the casino never worried about himself exploiting the players. It's not clear if they are actually doing that, but it at least puts players at risk. Same reason as lots of people who play dice don't change their client seed, they are at risk. Just because casinos don't leave any evidence of cheating doesn't mean they aren't. They are good at going to extreme to think how to take advantage of players while not getting caught. The fact that most people lose in a dice game makes it reasonable for people to question the casino. There's a reason casino has bad reputation and we are taught not to trust them. If you can convince the majority of people in the world to believe gamble is good and gamble on this questionable site, i'll stop talking. Or I'll waste my time to keep talking if necessary just because I believe casino is causing more problems than the good they bring. It's as bad as drug dealing.

And I'm saying you are wrong and you still haven't addressed my point. If a casino did what you suggest and guess that a player hasn't changed their client seed someone would work out they are doing that and exploit it.


Yeah, and you're the picture of calm reasoning....



Which is a natural if irrational response to losing many people have.


Really?



I'm saying that is wrong. Non static server seeds don't cause problems and they still provide a method for customers to prove if they were cheated or not. Do you have any evidence that people lose less at sites using statics server seeds or is this just another one of your theories?


I think the only thing you have made clear is that you think sites cheat but don't have anything to back up that claim.


You do a very good impression of the complete opposite.

I'm not saying you are actually cheating, I'm just saying non-static server seed is a system that can harm the player, because casino can assume player won't change the client seed and they can change server seed to their benifit, I've already said this odds is good for the site because if the player didn't change their client seed for a few bets, there's a great chance that he won't for the next few bets. So the system is flawed. Also you seem so agreesive and will not accept any opposing opinion from anyone other than defending this site for money. The most important reason i'm writing this is because too many people are losing in the dice game which makes people question their fairness. I'm not saying it's scam, i'm saying the non-static server seeds have problems and people that are winning aren't proportionate to those that lose. I think i've made my point quite clear and i don't want to keep arguing about this subject.

Every point you have made I have answered, Read it above yourself. You haven't come back with a single point.

Most importantly you keep ignoring the most pertinent fact.


You haven't done anything apart from coming up with a theory that we *could* cheat. I've explained to you that it wouldn't work and it would expose us to someone working out any algorithm used. You totally ignored that.

You obviously have no interesting in learning how to protect yourself from sites and just want to continue believing your theory.

Don't just tell me i failed to answer any of your points, I already asked you to show me which one?

You have indeed stated your opinion many times and totally failed to answer any of the points that I have made demonstrating the errors in your thinking. You could actually prove to yourself whether we are a fair site or but you have no interest in doing that and just wish to continue to spout your bs.

Client seed should only be provided and considered safe after seeing the hashed server seed, it doesn't matter who created it. I already state this a million time if server seed changes under the condition that most people won't change their client seed every bet, client seed is known. Also you did way worth to stretch the facts to fit your prejudice by answering only part of my post.

No. it is randomized by your device. It runs in Javascript so you can inspect the source code.


I understand that you still don't have the first clue what you are talking about even after doing a little research. You're still trying to stretch the facts to fit your prejudice.

Lol I'm sorry, it takes me a little long to find your client seed option under provably fair, also it's randomized by the SITE unless you mannually input your client seed. Do you understand what i'm saying, the system is at least flawed because of non-static server seed. Tell me what rebuttals do you have i'll answer it right now.

IT CAN"T KNOW! THERE IS A RANDOMIZE CLIENT SEED OPTION.

You still have nothing more than what you *think* happens. You have no arguments at all and haven't answered any of my rebuttals (because you can't) but are still determined to believe what you want.


Yes, you have said enough of your half-baked opinions that don't stand up to the first line of scrutiny.


The real point that you completely miss is that a provably fair system doesn't guarantee that you were not cheated. What it does is give you the ability to prove it if you were. That is equally true of both implementations. Come back with some proof rather than just your theory.

If the system detects a player doesn't change the client seed, it can selectively choose server seed because most likely the player won't change the seed next bet. It's a game of possibility. If system detect player is changing client seed every bet, they can then make the server seed random because it's impossible to guess what the next client seed would be. Only then the system might be fair. But I'm not in this industry, it's the casino's job not mine to study how to cheat in this game. I'm just saying a non-static server seed at least offers the casino possibility to cheat. Whether they are cheating or not, you will never know and have any proof, just like most people who don't know anything about seed and never change it will never know if they are cheated. Another thing that all players should be aware of is that experience tells us the people that win aren't proportionate to those that lose, it would be interesting to see if all players playing on this site post their all time profit data here. Of course casinos can always explain it but that should be able to tell us whether it's a good idea to gamble especially when you are betting against the house. I'm not getting paid for posting here and i've already said enough so bye-bye.

your arguments just don't make any sense. you really need to educate yourself about how "provably fair" works.
> it means that they are not cheating your rolls
> it does not mean that you will never lose - of course you will probably lose over the long term against a 5% house edge! (so they don't need to cheat!)
freebit.co.in is an honest and great site and it would risk quickly lose its reputation if it did try anything like you are suggesting

You're not done arguing, you never started. All you've done is stated your opinion and been unable to back it up with anything other than what you *think* happens. When I answered your concerns about us 'knowing' the client seed (we don't, we could only guess if you change it or not) you don't have any comeback.
You should have a think about this as well. If a provably fair site was to do what you say and use an algorithm that would mean that the servers seeds were not random. If they are not random then they would be predictable. Someone would work that out and be able to create client seeds to get the result they wanted, or even easier just bet low instead of high. Any provably fair site doing that would be cleaned out in a very short period of time. That doesn't apply to traditional fiat sites because they don't give you anything (server seed hash) in advance so they can just send you anything they want as the result after they have seen how you bet. If a provably fair site did that you would be able to prove you were cheated.

I'm done arguing with this guy, it's a waste of time, i've already stated my points. Experience told me it's so hard to win in a dice game and in theory they do know your client seed if you don't change it every bet. If people want to play on this site, it's none of my business, just want to give those guys piece of advice and do think how many people are actually winning.

You didn't read my last answer. There is a randomize client seed function on the site that you can use with auto-bet. I do have the answers when the questions are so dumb.


No, we don't do that. The reason is that is how all sites did probably fair back in 2013. Some newer sites have since used an alternative system with static server seed and nonce. It could be argued that the system is slightly easier for players to use but both systems protect the player and allow them to prove fairness.

The site gives you the server seed hash before you click roll. The server doesn't know whether you changed the seed or not, it doesn't know how much you bet or at what bet odds and it doesn't know if you bet low or high. It still has to honour the bet and you can prove it if we didn't



Lots of people signup newbie accounts on this forum and make false and unsubstantiated allegations based on nothing more than their opinions. I'm still waiting for anything more than that from you. How about some proof of this manipulation or is all this just based on what you *think* happens?