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Topic: Freewallet.org Flag - Please Support - page 2. (Read 1341 times)

member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 18, 2019, 05:42:59 AM
#65
I'd like to draw the attention of everyone in this thread that the referenced issue was closed on Friday and the customer could withdraw his funds.


And what do you do with the money of people that don't speak out against you after you subject them to a "random" KYC check?

Per your TOS you can just claim that, right?

We treat all the issues equally no matter if they are spoken in public or not.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
July 18, 2019, 05:21:08 AM
#64
Let's put it this way: under our model, it's not feasible to provide private keys to individual wallet addresses.

Regardless of your model. It is always possible to provide private keys from individual addresses.
Each address (or more precisely: public key) has an associated private key. That's how bitcoin works.

The way you derive those private keys doesn't matter here.
member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 18, 2019, 05:18:43 AM
#63


'Private keys' and 'addresses' are technical terms.
So, please explain what you meant with your statement.

The reason i am asking is, because it doesn't make any sense. It is not possible to 'share private keys with addresses'.

I honestly start thinking you almost know nothing about bitcoin at all, which makes it even more worrying that you are hosting a fake-wallet..

Let's put it this way: under our model, it's not feasible to provide private keys to individual wallet addresses.

Anyway, this is our right as a service provider as well as one of the options available in the market today.

Regards,
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
July 18, 2019, 04:58:00 AM
#62
The reason i am asking is, because it doesn't make any sense. It is not possible to 'share private keys with addresses'.
I think it's just an incorrect translation. If I may edit the quote, I think this is what Freewallet meant:
Our service model is based on providing a secure cold storage technology so we do not share private keys with of individual addresses.
(quote edited)
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
July 18, 2019, 04:43:44 AM
#61
[...]  so we do not share private keys with individual addresses.

Elaborate this statement please. Feel free to make it as technical as possible.

Hi Bob,

This is not supposed to be a technical statement. It's rather a business model.


'Private keys' and 'addresses' are technical terms.
So, please explain what you meant with your statement.

The reason i am asking is, because it doesn't make any sense. It is not possible to 'share private keys with addresses'.

I honestly start thinking you almost know nothing about bitcoin at all, which makes it even more worrying that you are hosting a fake-wallet..
member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 18, 2019, 04:13:26 AM
#60

But you didn't confirm nor deny correct amount above which you are enforcing KYC. Can you write exact number using USD?

As we mentioned, amount is not the criterion.


You are playing on AML card so I will assume that you have reported lots of suspicious transactions to authorities because of AML regulation, especially because you are operating under Hong Kong's law which is part of FATF.

Is my assumption correct or wrong?  Smiley

There are no "AML cards". From time to time we have to address the legal requests of public authorities.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
July 18, 2019, 04:12:03 AM
#59
[...]  so we do not share private keys with individual addresses.

Elaborate this statement please. Feel free to make it as technical as possible.
member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 18, 2019, 04:00:00 AM
#58

When you hold the customers private keys, you are responsible for its security.

If suspicious transactions were identified, it is because your system lacks security, as you are the only one responsible for its security (as the user cannot spend funds, only you can).

It is the same as a bank, a cloned credit card... it is always banks/credit card fault, never customer fault. So, if suspicious transactions happened, you are the only one to blame.

Imo, the biggest problem is the lack of transparency. Why don't you let users choose if they want you to control the private keys or not? Why don't you ask them if they want to make KYC (and transact more than X btc) or not? Holding their funds hostage just because a lot of btc showed up, or you decided to create a "new holding criteria" is trustworth.

We do not deny this liability and consider it out top mission.
You've probably heard of many security breaches revealed with advanced exchange and wallet platforms. Preventing such breaches is a continuous task to do.

Our service model is based on providing a secure cold storage technology so we do not share private keys with individual addresses.
We are not able to detect every single individual situation bearing the risk of fraud with 100% guarantee and therefore impose KYC based on these criteria.

The one claiming a full transparency from financial service is in the best position for likes, approves and "supporting the flag".
However, as a service provider we also encounter the necessity to properly address all requests from public authorities on certain transactions.   
From the part of customer service, we strive to ensure the best possible speed of resolution of such cases that are inevitable in existing reality.


We know that thanks to our system we identified a lot of suspicious transactions, which prevented our customers from losing money. That's a mere practice.
In this case, how did you stop this customer from losing money? Smiley

By ensuring he is a rightful owner of these funds.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2270
July 17, 2019, 04:35:52 PM
#57
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and understanding of the process: it's very determined.
But you didn't confirm nor deny correct amount above which you are enforcing KYC. Can you write exact number using USD?
Will you admit that not all credible AML algorithms (including the software) adhere to these guidelines?
Why are you asking me questions? Fuck me if I know why.
We know that thanks to our system we identified a lot of suspicious transactions, which prevented our customers from losing money. That's a mere practice.
You are playing on AML card so I will assume that you have reported lots of suspicious transactions to authorities because of AML regulation, especially because you are operating under Hong Kong's law which is part of FATF.

Is my assumption correct or wrong?  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 6006
bitcoindata.science
July 17, 2019, 11:55:22 AM
#56
We know that thanks to our system we identified a lot of suspicious transactions, which prevented our customers from losing money. That's a mere practice.

When you hold the customers private keys, you are responsible for its security.

If suspicious transactions were identified, it is because your system lacks security, as you are the only one responsible for its security (as the user cannot spend funds, only you can).

It is the same as a bank, a cloned credit card... it is always banks/credit card fault, never customer fault. So, if suspicious transactions happened, you are the only one to blame.

Imo, the biggest problem is the lack of transparency. Why don't you let users choose if they want you to control the private keys or not? Why don't you ask them if they want to make KYC (and transact more than X btc) or not? Holding their funds hostage just because a lot of btc showed up, or you decided to create a "new holding criteria" is trustworth.
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
July 17, 2019, 11:22:55 AM
#55
We know that thanks to our system we identified a lot of suspicious transactions, which prevented our customers from losing money. That's a mere practice.
In this case, how did you stop this customer from losing money? Smiley
member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 17, 2019, 10:27:09 AM
#54
@freewallet can you confirm or deny this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51836767 ?

In scam accusation you have stated this:

Hello,

As per our terms and conditions, we are authorized to perform the verification procedure: https://freewallet.org/terms (please read the 5th paragraph)

However, we are making sure to have our customers' accounts verified as soon as it is technically possible.

In your case, the risk-scoring algorithm has detected suspicious activity. For security reasons, we are not able to reveal all the details of this process.

Thank you for preparing the requested documents; we'll definitely get back to you today.
User transfered $190000 and exchanged them. Tried to withdraw BTC and then you performed KYC.

First, KYC should have been enforced at step 1 (user transfered 190000$ exchanged them).
Second, KYC should have been enforced at step 2 (user tried to withdraw BTC worth $190K)

I will quote this again:

Quote
[...]we are authorized to perform the verification procedure[...]

In your case, the risk-scoring algorithm has detected suspicious activity. For security reasons, we are not able to reveal all the details of this process.

It is not that you are authorized to perform the verification procedure, you are obligated to perform verification procedure for $190K. Things you mentioned in this thread, KYC because of different IP is pretty much nonsense. Things you said in scam accusation thread, that you have performed verification procedure because your algorithm has detected suspicious activity is also pretty much nonsense.

All this means that you know shit about AML regulation.


Thanks for sharing your knowledge and understanding of the process: it's very determined.

Will you admit that not all credible AML algorithms (including the software) adhere to these guidelines?

We know that thanks to our system we identified a lot of suspicious transactions, which prevented our customers from losing money. That's a mere practice.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
July 17, 2019, 09:59:09 AM
#53
So if a new post is made at the time my response has been just submitted, should I return to my most recent post and edit it by adding a reply to this new post?

Yes. If your post is the most recent one in the thread you shouldn't make a new one.

You should use the edit button instead Smiley

Shouldn't that be merged into one post? I noticed mprep merges multi-posts all the time. Oh, well, anyway:

mprep being nice doesn't mean that every mod will do it, particularly like above when Freewallet still refuses to use the Edit button after being explicitly told to.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2270
July 17, 2019, 09:54:04 AM
#52
Shouldn't that be merged into one post? I noticed mprep merges multi-posts all the time. Oh, well, anyway:

@freewallet, again, can you confirm or deny https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51845395
member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 17, 2019, 09:48:28 AM
#51
Of course, making two posts in sequence won't let people "trust us with their money".

You either don't get it or try to ignore it miserably.

Posting two times in a row doesn't mean that people shouldn't trust you.. but the fact that you can't even admit it and expressing it as 'moderators are evil, they delete posts' is just a plain stupid move.
And imo, THIS makes you even less trustworthy and more shady than you already have been.

Why can't you simply admit that you made a mistake here by multi-posting ?
How can i know that you will admit your mistakes when they are more severe (e.g. loss of user funds) if you can't even admit posting twice in a row ? ..

Through this exaggeration, I am just trying to point out to certain bias in this discussion.

Which user's funds were lost, may we have a look at this case/user ID etc.?
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
July 17, 2019, 09:43:18 AM
#50
No multiple posts were made.
I'm confused: you complain your posts get removed by Mods. I told you why that happened, and how to avoid it. Instead of using this advice, you simply deny it?
What's this? Or this? Or this? As a courtesy, I've reported them again Cheesy

Of course, making two posts in sequence won't let people "trust us with their money".
Lying won't let people trust you with anything.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
July 17, 2019, 08:44:10 AM
#49
Of course, making two posts in sequence won't let people "trust us with their money".

You either don't get it or try to ignore it miserably.

Posting two times in a row doesn't mean that people shouldn't trust you.. but the fact that you can't even admit it and expressing it as 'moderators are evil, they delete posts' is just a plain stupid move.
And imo, THIS makes you even less trustworthy and more shady than you already have been.

Why can't you simply admit that you made a mistake here by multi-posting ?
How can i know that you will admit your mistakes when they are more severe (e.g. loss of user funds) if you can't even admit posting twice in a row ? ..
member
Activity: 551
Merit: 11
July 17, 2019, 08:38:07 AM
#48

You always replied with multiple posts in a row instead of simply quoting and answering in one single post.
Each time you answered X people, you created X posts in a row.

If you can't even admit doing such a lenient mistake.. how shall people trust you with their money  Huh
I don't understand why you can't even be honest about such a trifle..

Well, this opinion might be illustrative when it comes to online discussions, that do not imply the answer of an accused party.

Of course, making two posts in sequence won't let people "trust us with their money".

Speaking to the point: there is no such policy imposing us to close KYC in favor of only those users who complain in public.

As always, we are available when it comes to a customer's query.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
July 17, 2019, 07:39:18 AM
#47
No multiple posts were made.

You always replied with multiple posts in a row instead of simply quoting and answering in one single post.
Each time you answered X people, you created X posts in a row.

If you can't even admit doing such a lenient mistake.. how shall people trust you with their money  Huh
I don't understand why you can't even be honest about such a trifle..
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 9709
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
July 17, 2019, 07:28:08 AM
#46
Remove the selective KYC, let customers control their private keys & nobody will doubt you.
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