Gambling - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Oilacris

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on January 07, 2024, 10:23:00 AM

Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

For Casino games, I think it's not as simple as you are thinking. These algorithms are complex and random too. However I always believe the games are designed to give benefit to the house, not the players. The algorithm also ensures that the players do not lose interest and leave games.

For sure they would really be making out those tweaks that they would really be always having the advantage on which its understandable considering that they are running a business and we do know that they would really be having those edge against their players but of course they would be setting out that those advantage wont really be that heavily be going into their side and they would
really be normally setting out that their players could really be able to win up. So that it wont really be that removing the fun and excitement because they do still know and feel that they can
really be able to win up on the time that they would be playing. This is why it would really be that normal on having those kind of set up.Tweaking? Its not really
that an easy thing, if it was easy then everyone could be able to do so.

Orpichukwu

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

Unless the system is fair enough, the algorithm used for those games and how they generate their numbers can't be predicted. That's why games based on randomly generated numbers are won by luck and not by skill because there is nothing there for you to study and understand what number will come next and which one will not come next.

Like I said earlier, unless the casino is using a genuine system where they only use the random number generator to back up their fraud, somehow someone will notice their techniques and how they predict the game and use that against them; if not, I don't think it's possible to beat their algorithm.

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

Yes, in theory it is very possible to do that by reverse engineering the algorithm of the online casinos and their games but in real life it's not an easy task and can't be done by a person with no knowledge of programming and reverse engineering. In fact these days most of the famous casinos detect such activity easily and if a player does something shady then they directly ban the player's account with any warning.

The casinos are there because they mostly rely on the house edge and if someone get success in doing something that may cause the casino losses then surely they work on their algorithm again and fix such issues by changing their algorithm. I know that there can be some advanced level reverse engineers and hackers who can easily find vulnerabilities in casino games but they won't be able to gain any profits for long term and they might not be able to withdraw the profits because casino will freeze those withdrawals.

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

You are talking about digital games I guess, because there is no algorithm into a dice roll, a wheel throw, or a shuffle of cards, especially when it's done by one human. So you won't be able to crack any live casino game by trying to do that, and it's almost the same for digital games, if the entropy/randomness of the game is fairly provided by an efficient RNG generator, especially a TRNG using a physical source of entropy(randomness), you have no chance to find a loophole for guessing the outcomes.

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Quote from: cabron on January 07, 2024, 10:29:25 AM

Theoretically yes. I don't know i someone has done it but maybe the casino owner themselves has access to the algorithm you are saying.

But most gamblers who are trying to look at patterns eventually lose and are just relying on luck or the kind of where it's their due time to win. There were rumors about win frequency inside the game providers' dashboards in which the Random number generators (RNGs) are manipulated. Well who could say.

If what we are talking about here is like casino or alot games, then my response would be that there is no chance at all, trust me when I say that if it was possible for a gambler to gain access to a game algorithm of a casino and manipulate it to his or her own advantage, somebody somewhere around the would have done it, and the news would have done viral due to how popular gambling is, so, this is only possible in theory, but never possible practically.

And again, I am not so sure about this, but I've always believed that casinos are the only ones who have access to their game algorithm, as they could ulter as they please, this is why we sometimes find games that are not provably fair on some casinos.

Frankolala

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The casino are smart and if it happens that you could know how to win the game through having access to their algorithm, you will only be successful on the first trial and after that the casino will detect and banned your account for cheating.

Casino owners have thought about every possible ways in which their casino can have flaws which they have come to know that it is impossible for you to cheat and get out of it after the first time. You cannot win the house edge and I don't think there is any possibility of you having access to their Algorithm even if you are working in the casino.

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If players win all the time, the casino would go bankrupt and have nothing to pay out winnings, let alone the rest of the casino. Personally, I think the algorithm still uses cameras to recognize players' faces to prevent unwanted people from winning. And the overall winning percentage is strictly regulated

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In traditional casino games I doubt that something like this could happen, in fact stay away from those thoughts that pave the way to failure, it is easier not to bet than to think such nonsense.

Now, at the beginning of the 21st century, the wild era of casinos, there was a guy who played in "God mode" in a popular poker room, they discovered him because his win rate was so high, that a player (several ) followed up and noticed the rarity, they investigated:

One expert (mathematician and gaming expert) said the following:

Quote

Hand after hand POTRIPPER’s play is consistent with that of a player who had knowledge of every player’s hole cards. The majority of hands show POTRIPPER bluffing at just the right times when his opponents were weak. Yet, when he was hopelessly outmatched, even with good cards, he laid them down.

Source:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereus_Poker_Network

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

I don't think so...

The algorithm used by casinos on their provably fair games is public information, and they make it that way to let the users verify their bets. Here the trick is the server seed, before placing the bet the site shows you a hash of the seed, and after placing the bet you can verify it with the server seed.

Now, if you have access to the casino code you can make from the server seed a constant and that way cheat on the game, but in that scenario where you have access to the code, it is a waste of time to attack the seed, a smart move would be to directly drain the wallets, or be a nice guy and report the bug to the casino.

YOSHIE

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

Isn't it theoretically true that Algorithms work to solve problems that are often done systematically and logically, my understanding is that Algorithmic predictions cannot be used in the world of gambling, because the nature of gambling that is often done is the type of game, not specifications or data.

As far as I know, algorithmic systems lead to the opposite point, for example what is called a heuristic, meaning a solution that has no guarantee of producing optimal or correct results, because in general algorithms are always identified with properties.
For example:
Definition, Designing, Analysis, Implementation, Specifications and so on.

While gambling is always used by many gamblers based on knowledge, games, information, luck and so on.
While the algorithm produces output that is arranged logically and systematically.
As I know Algorithms are divided into several types.
For example:

Quote

* Recursive Algorithm
* Divide and Conquer algorithm
* Dynamic Programming Algorithm
* Greedy Algorithm
* Brute Force algorithm

I have seen several types of algorithms that cannot be used in this type of gambling game.

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

No, predicting games at online casinos to win big isnt as easy as figuring out their algorithms. These sites use random number generators (RNGs) so everything should be fair and random. RNGs spit out random outcomes all day long, so even if you are some math genius, you cant beat them.

Sure maybe once in a blue moon some dude finds a bug in the system to exploit. But thats pretty rare nowadays since the IT security at these places is no joke and so i would not bank on it if I were you. More likely, youll just lose big bucks trying to crack the code. My advice? Have fun if you gamble online, but go in knowing the house usually wins.

XX_19933

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Sure, but how do you predict it lol? I've always wanted to have an edge, since the best win I ever had was on Dplay and accumulated to like $1000 only. I'm not saying I'm ungrateful lol, but we all know how that works, it's pretty much never enough

elevates

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

No, that is not possible even if you are able to predict the outcome. The reason is that you would still have a level of underconfidence as a gambler as you know the house has the ability to change the algorithm. There have been situations while playing the dice or slot game I felt it was easy to crack the outcome. Ultimately it was always my overconfidence that duped me and trust me it is not that easy to break the flow of the outcome in gambling when luck is involved.

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

Theoretically, maybe that is true, but if people do reasoning about what algorithms are in online gambling, maybe it is not as easy as imagined.
What I know from reading in several sources is that online casino algorithms are random or Random Number Generator [RNG].
Usually a program generated from a computer applies to slot games such as Roulette and the like which are known as games of luck[1].

If we all know the general meaning of algorithms, perhaps trying to interpret them in online gambling will have a different purpose.
The dealer wants to win twice as much as the player. Even though players are very smart in algorithm science, it is not certain that they will win every game at an online casino.

[1]. Source written in my local language.

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

Anything that can be put to practical use is of not good to anyone – theoretically it is possible to win all games if you’re able to get your hands on it but how are you going to do it? I have never seen or heard anyone hack the system was able to predict the system and perfectly predicted games that came out without any problems – when there’s any signs that you’re cheating in any way your account will be immediately locked down for further investigation.

It’s better not to start thinking about this kind of things because you never can tell what this will lead to or what seed will be sown into those that are going to read this thread.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

Do you want to cheat the house???

A lot of thoughts are flying through the heads of many gamblers, but do not also forget that more thoughts are flying through the heads of the house and those are in charge of their software and gambling platforms. What you just asked will be the least of what they have already prevented, so do not waste your time.

Still, those who wrote the algorithms should be able to say better but in my opinion, they would have twisted it per casinos if they commercialise it so that it does not work or behave exactly the same way with all casinos. However, if it is a unique one dedicated to the casino, to first get it will be a problem because it is the engine room of the company's money. But let's assume that you managed to get it, it is possible that it doesn't simulate the same way, so it might be more complex than you think.

But let's not conclude on that, the writers of the algorithm or the tech-savvy people in the field who have written such programs before should be able to answer better, and not random people.

un_rank

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- Jay -

Theoretically, Yes you will be able to predict and win all games.
Practically, it is next to impossible to hack the algorithm and if someone succeeded to do so, the system will detect the pattern and lock you out.

- Jay -

electronicash

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Quote from: aioc on January 07, 2024, 10:40:24 AM

Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

It will also alarm the casino of your activity making them question your activity, it's not easy to beat the house, they might think that you are exploiting the bug and they may question you about cheating if ever you could predict the algorithm, be sure not to get caught don't be too greedy make it look realistic and if you are caught knowing about algorithm the casino will accuse of violations like multi-accounting or cheating although you did not commit those what they accuse you.

it means if there is someone who could crack the algo, his account will be suspended, locked and banned. like Royse777 the casino games are just not designed to make you win, so they advised users who won at least 2-3x of their capital to stop playing already and try again on another casino for your luck could change when you continue playing.

most gamblers must have experienced winning for almost an hour and then the next hours, their funds were washed out.

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

This is why most of the casino games especially slot games is closed source because it’s possible to exploit the game once the algorithm is exposed.

The main question here is whether the casino will allowed you to win consecutively and cashout your profit because having a perfect game with huge profit will surely alarmed the casino security for potential exploits. As mention already by @aioc. You will be accused of violating casino terms before you can enjoy long term the exploitation that you found on their games.

aioc

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Quote from: Bill buffalo on January 07, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Theoretically speaking if you could predict the algorithm in an online casino wouldn't you be able to predict the game and win a lot let's just say you had access to the algorithm and you were able to replicate it you would practically be able to win all the games

It will also alarm the casino of your activity making them question your activity, it's not easy to beat the house, they might think that you are exploiting the bug and they may question you about cheating if ever you could predict the algorithm, be sure not to get caught don't be too greedy make it look realistic and if you are caught knowing about algorithm the casino will accuse of violations like multi-accounting or cheating although you did not commit those what they accuse you.

Topic: Gambling - page 5. (Read 549 times)