Gambling as a profession: there's people who live out of gambling? - page 27.

matchi2011

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Quote from: peter0425 on December 17, 2019, 11:40:06 AM

Quote from: Wawa2013 on December 16, 2019, 10:43:39 AM

Maybe there are people who live from gambling, surely he is very professional and has mastered all kinds of games. People who live by gambling usually live in a gambling environment. Yes it could be in the city of Las Vegas, maybe in that city there are people who live from gambling, because the population there almost all of them already know gambling.

lol that is impossible to master all of the games in gambling,even professionals has only skills on their chosen games and not the entire gambling world.
and it is not only in Las Vegas instead even in asia there is someone that is living with their profit in gambling.

Maybe there's some but secretly enjoying the benefits out from gambling activities. Gamblers who able to earn small amount of money and be wise to be satisfied and quickly quit. It's doable as it is, determinations from any mindset that will allow gambler to take some edge from their skills.
It's tough but if there's good sets of analysis then you'll be able to work it out.

KnightElite

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Quote from: youdacapt on December 18, 2019, 12:43:25 PM

Professional gamblers are often seen at casinos and famous gambling spots, but I am surprised that some of them are well-known business people and government officials, so the true definition of the gambling profession is not very clear because they clearly have a better source of income. Online gamblers who depend their lives financially are also not easily visible in the real world, except for a few colleagues who are seen discussing gambling activities with me as often as possible.

There is a professional gambler in my country that is also a professional trader. He is a mentor and he's keep teaching us about the psychology of a gambler and a trader. He is a poker champion after all in the south east asia. He's good in metoring people like me who want to be a profsessional trader and also gambler. He recently founded a community where I can learn more knowledge.

shoreno

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Quote from: youdacapt on December 18, 2019, 12:43:25 PM

Professional gamblers are often seen at casinos and famous gambling spots, but I am surprised that some of them are well-known business people and government officials, so the true definition of the gambling profession is not very clear because they clearly have a better source of income.

gamblers can come on any form , whether you are normal person or influencial people , you can always play gambling but just put in on the right time.

if they are govt. officials then profesional or profesional gamblers suites them but there are also called profesional gamblers without a govt related background but they are only better players .

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Professional gamblers are often seen at casinos and famous gambling spots, but I am surprised that some of them are well-known business people and government officials, so the true definition of the gambling profession is not very clear because they clearly have a better source of income. Online gamblers who depend their lives financially are also not easily visible in the real world, except for a few colleagues who are seen discussing gambling activities with me as often as possible.

supercanada1

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Quote from: peter0425 on December 17, 2019, 11:40:06 AM

Quote from: Wawa2013 on December 16, 2019, 10:43:39 AM

Maybe there are people who live from gambling, surely he is very professional and has mastered all kinds of games. People who live by gambling usually live in a gambling environment. Yes it could be in the city of Las Vegas, maybe in that city there are people who live from gambling, because the population there almost all of them already know gambling.

lol that is impossible to master all of the games in gambling,even professionals has only skills on their chosen games and not the entire gambling world.
and it is not only in Las Vegas instead even in asia there is someone that is living with their profit in gambling.

No one could be jack of all trades and as far as mastering gambling is concerned, it is really impossible. As you stated, gambling has so many types besides it is a luck based game and there is no one born with abilities to control fate. Yes you can master in sports betting because that is a type which needs your previous knowledge and experience but this is not the case with dice games.

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on December 16, 2019, 10:43:39 AM

Maybe there are people who live from gambling, surely he is very professional and has mastered all kinds of games. People who live by gambling usually live in a gambling environment. Yes it could be in the city of Las Vegas, maybe in that city there are people who live from gambling, because the population there almost all of them already know gambling.

Maybe that is only a few gamblers who can live from gambling even if they live in a gambling environment. I would say that they have a lot of experience in gambling from what they're seeing and try, and maybe they learn from the other gambler skills so they can add more knowledge to improve their skills in gambling. Las Vegas could have gamblers who can live from gambling, and don't forget that Macau is a city with many gamblers who want to win the games.

peter0425

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on December 16, 2019, 10:43:39 AM

Maybe there are people who live from gambling, surely he is very professional and has mastered all kinds of games. People who live by gambling usually live in a gambling environment. Yes it could be in the city of Las Vegas, maybe in that city there are people who live from gambling, because the population there almost all of them already know gambling.

lol that is impossible to master all of the games in gambling,even professionals has only skills on their chosen games and not the entire gambling world.
and it is not only in Las Vegas instead even in asia there is someone that is living with their profit in gambling.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 16, 2019, 09:51:01 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2019, 05:40:22 AM

It is them which kill so many aspiring martingalers as the latter obviously neglect their destructive potential. On the other hand, if you come prepared for them, you will not only be able to survive them but to actually earn something. You just need to keep them contained and make them work for you, not the other way around. Outliers are a reality of gambling, and whether they kill you or heal you (from being the prey to the casino) is up to you

But gambling is not trading. Even in trading it's hard to predict when those outliers will occur, let alone in gambling where, in my opinion, it's simply impossible. I mean, there is a simple formula to follow in order to be successful in trading, "Buy low, sell high", and yet we fail most of the time because there are too many factors to consider before calling a price either "low" or "high". But in gambling we don't even have such a formula. Or do we?

No, gambling is not trading

And that's the exact reason why outliers are a given in gambling and not in trading, simply because gambling (as in dice) is about chance and pure luck. Simply put, the comparison you make is not valid, as opposed to its conclusions (whatever those might be). Nothing but luck can prevent you from experiencing 30 reds in a row, and luck doesn't make a good friend in this field

Further, it is not so much about predicting future outliers as about patiently waiting for them. It is an outlier, after all, and thus you can be sure of two things. First, you can't possibly predict when exactly you are going to see one. However, and this is second, you can be damn sure that you will see them. Ironically, just before I read your reply yesterday, I had witnessed one such outlier that increased my entire betting capital by nearly 1%

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on December 16, 2019, 10:43:39 AM

Maybe there are people who live from gambling, surely he is very professional and has mastered all kinds of games. People who live by gambling usually live in a gambling environment. Yes it could be in the city of Las Vegas, maybe in that city there are people who live from gambling, because the population there almost all of them already know gambling.

That is because Vegas is already well known for its casinos and gambling platforms, but if the case is if there are people that could live with just playing online gambling, I bet there's probably none. Because the technology nowadays could be very strict to their system, they might not show any potential exploit of their gambling platform for the player to have something to take advantage to. To make it short, it is quite impossible for a person to live with just gambling unless that person is efficient to transform his gambling activities and make it as a vlog that could teach many people here to earn some side money.

Wawa2013

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Maybe there are people who live from gambling, surely he is very professional and has mastered all kinds of games. People who live by gambling usually live in a gambling environment. Yes it could be in the city of Las Vegas, maybe in that city there are people who live from gambling, because the population there almost all of them already know gambling.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on December 15, 2019, 05:40:22 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on December 14, 2019, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2019, 11:13:58 AM

You are not going to roll for 30 years on end, so you should keep things balanced in terms of risk and reward

I agree, and, in fact, I periodically, once or twice per year, calculate how much can I earn with "safe settings", such ones so that it would be highly improbable to lose all my balance. And the result is always the same. Even if there were no restrictions on the site's side, and even if I could roll for 30 years on end, I wouldn't be able to earn a significant amount this way

That's because you don't take into account the effect of outliers

As I've gotten from your previous posts (and the posts of others, for the record), you and many other people here are thinking about martingale in the wrong way. Basically, you calculate how much you would make hourly, daily, weekly, etc in a more or less consistent way. But this is a wrong approach to martingale served right as it doesn't consider or account for the potentially destructive power of outliers

It is them which kill so many aspiring martingalers as the latter obviously neglect their destructive potential. On the other hand, if you come prepared for them, you will not only be able to survive them but to actually earn something. You just need to keep them contained and make them work for you, not the other way around. Outliers are a reality of gambling, and whether they kill you or heal you (from being the prey to the casino) is up to you

But gambling is not trading. Even in trading it's hard to predict when those outliers will occur, let alone in gambling where, in my opinion, it's simply impossible. I mean, there is a simple formula to follow in order to be successful in trading, "Buy low, sell high", and yet we fail most of the time because there are too many factors to consider before calling a price either "low" or "high". But in gambling we don't even have such a formula. Or do we?

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Quote from: The-Devil on December 14, 2019, 12:35:34 PM

Yes, there are people whose only means of making money is gambling. They are professional gamblers. If they win, they gamble and lose. But I think gambling is not a good profession. It should not be accepted as a profession. However, many have accepted gambling as a profession. Gambling is good but it is not good as a profession.

Even the professional gamblers at times go through high losses and that is because of the house. House never wants any gambler to win jackpot or a huge amount of money. They try all possible tricks to get back the money from gambler. Considering the side effects of gambling, it shall be banned at least for young people. There are numerous cases where ended up on roads because of gambling.

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Quote from: lienfaye on December 01, 2019, 06:49:20 AM

Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 06:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Well there are people who make a living through gambling, they treated it as their main source of income. They not rely mostly on luck but by their skills and strategy. This is not easy and only few people can do this and for normal gambler that is having a hard time to win its impossible to earn through gambling only.

I watched the movie 21 and I think there are actually people who uses methods like counting to determine future bets and it is not even illegal! Like strategies like those can be used and as Sherlock says, if you can know every information of the present, you would be able to calculate the future perfectly Wink

but it is only possible on offline casinos.

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 14, 2019, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2019, 11:13:58 AM

You are not going to roll for 30 years on end, so you should keep things balanced in terms of risk and reward

I agree, and, in fact, I periodically, once or twice per year, calculate how much can I earn with "safe settings", such ones so that it would be highly improbable to lose all my balance. And the result is always the same. Even if there were no restrictions on the site's side, and even if I could roll for 30 years on end, I wouldn't be able to earn a significant amount this way

That's because you don't take into account the effect of outliers

As I've gotten from your previous posts (and the posts of others, for the record), you and many other people here are thinking about martingale in the wrong way. Basically, you calculate how much you would make hourly, daily, weekly, etc in a more or less consistent way. But this is a wrong approach to martingale served right as it doesn't consider or account for the potentially destructive power of outliers

It is them which kill so many aspiring martingalers as the latter obviously neglect their destructive potential. On the other hand, if you come prepared for them, you will not only be able to survive them but to actually earn something. You just need to keep them contained and make them work for you, not the other way around. Outliers are a reality of gambling, and whether they kill you or heal you (from being the prey to the casino) is up to you

CodyAlfaridzi

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on August 08, 2019, 09:42:50 PM

but is there such a thing as professional gamblers?

people who make a living onlyout of gambling (online or on rl)?

resources and comments on that are really welcome.

I don't think so. Their income must be irregular. It's actually fine. Freelancers do have irregular income too. The problem is gambler is risking their capital. Once they had a bad streak and lost their capital, it could mean losing your income source too.

Quote from: p3ppymon on December 04, 2019, 04:20:41 PM

A question.
Do you think that professional poker players can be categorised as gamblers when they put some actual math into the game? Of course the gambling component is there when you need to play a flip, but there is more edge against the house (which in this case is the playing field).
Your thoughts please.

Of course, why would you think otherwise? Even if they're counting the cards, it's still a game of chance. They're just counting their risk, will it be a good bet, etc. It doesn't make the game free of luck factor either.

The-Devil

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Yes, there are people whose only means of making money is gambling. They are professional gamblers. If they win, they gamble and lose. But I think gambling is not a good profession. It should not be accepted as a profession. However, many have accepted gambling as a profession. Gambling is good but it is not good as a profession.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2019, 11:13:58 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on December 08, 2019, 10:45:57 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 04, 2019, 04:41:48 PM

~ Since the "likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling", you can easily counterbalance this increase with other adjustments

Personally, I increase the win chance, and that gives me some peace of mind.

But you do realize that with this you're extending the time it will take for the ability to survive one additional loss, right?

You won't be able to bet after you reach the max bet amount anyway

Apart from that, it works like the law of diminishing returns, i.e. after you reach a certain threshold, it doesn't make sense to increase the losing streak any more. For example, if you are not going to hit it within 3 years (statistically speaking), you may rightfully assume you are not going to bust any time soon. Indeed, it doesn't mean that you can't but nevertheless it is a pretty solid assumption. Then you can start building on that (and keep fingers crossed that the casino won't run away with your money in the process)

Quote from: Betwrong on December 08, 2019, 10:45:57 AM

And yet it's possible to predict with a high likelihood that something will happen within a certain amount of bets. For example, we will surely hit at least one winning roll within 50 bets with 50% win chance

You are not going to roll for 30 years on end, so you should keep things balanced in terms of risk and reward

I agree, and, in fact, I periodically, once or twice per year, calculate how much can I earn with "safe settings", such ones so that it would be highly improbable to lose all my balance. And the result is always the same. Even if there were no restrictions on the site's side, and even if I could roll for 30 years on end, I wouldn't be able to earn a significant amount this way.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 08, 2019, 10:45:57 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 04, 2019, 04:41:48 PM

~ Since the "likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling", you can easily counterbalance this increase with other adjustments

Personally, I increase the win chance, and that gives me some peace of mind.

But you do realize that with this you're extending the time it will take for the ability to survive one additional loss, right?

You won't be able to bet after you reach the max bet amount anyway

Apart from that, it works like the law of diminishing returns, i.e. after you reach a certain threshold, it doesn't make sense to increase the losing streak any more. For example, if you are not going to hit it within 3 years (statistically speaking), you may rightfully assume you are not going to bust any time soon. Indeed, it doesn't mean that you can't but nevertheless it is a pretty solid assumption. Then you can start building on that (and keep fingers crossed that the casino won't run away with your money in the process)

Quote from: Betwrong on December 08, 2019, 10:45:57 AM

And yet it's possible to predict with a high likelihood that something will happen within a certain amount of bets. For example, we will surely hit at least one winning roll within 50 bets with 50% win chance

You are not going to roll for 30 years on end, so you should keep things balanced in terms of risk and reward

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on December 04, 2019, 04:41:48 PM

~ Since the "likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling", you can easily counterbalance this increase with other adjustments

Personally, I increase the win chance, and that gives me some peace of mind.

But you do realize that with this you're extending the time it will take for the ability to survive one additional loss, right?

Quote from: deisik on December 04, 2019, 04:41:48 PM

You can do that too, but it still will be only in your mind, and purely psychological in nature because technically, this probability doesn't increase at all, no matter how many rolls you have made so far. In other words, you rolling for 30 years doesn't make the killing streak any closer for the simple reason it remains as far in the future as ever before (statistically speaking)

Yes, it's a known fact that however many bets you've made the probability of something happening in the next several bets always remains the same. And yet it's possible to predict with a high likelihood that something will happen within a certain amount of bets. For example, we will surely hit at least one winning roll within 50 bets with 50% win chance. And we, either consciously or unconsciously, exploit that knowledge continuously, in whatever situations, in our everyday life.

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Quote from: Ucy on December 05, 2019, 04:35:00 AM

Quote from: lienfaye on December 01, 2019, 06:49:20 AM

Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 06:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Well there are people who make a living through gambling, they treated it as their main source of income. They not rely mostly on luck but by their skills and strategy. This is not easy and only few people can do this and for normal gambler that is having a hard time to win its impossible to earn through gambling only.

Agree. The regular winners are likely few. Regular winners must be "extraordinarily" skillful/talented/unique in their particular games. They are also the best where they gamble. I suspect they hide most times to remain profitable otherwise most gamblers and house would try to avoid them.

Those who are good at gambling will certainly hide their profits, sometimes they will even create traps to let the casino think they are losing while it is only a small amount of their victory, showing too much as you might say, the casino will not allow them to play or, more unfortunately, they will become targets for the casino to eliminate. And we can see that even when we consider gambling as a career, it still has a lot of trouble and risk, don't think we are good when casinos are where other people do business, they are very cunning foxes

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