Gambling as a profession: there's people who live out of gambling? - page 28.

Ucy

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Quote from: lienfaye on December 01, 2019, 05:49:20 AM

Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Well there are people who make a living through gambling, they treated it as their main source of income. They not rely mostly on luck but by their skills and strategy. This is not easy and only few people can do this and for normal gambler that is having a hard time to win its impossible to earn through gambling only.

Agree. The regular winners are likely few. Regular winners must be "extraordinarily" skillful/talented/unique in their particular games. They are also the best where they gamble. I suspect they hide most times to remain profitable otherwise most gamblers and house would try to avoid them.

Kasabus

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Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

You can't try that experiment but you can never depend making a living in gambling when you don't have the skills.
In reality, gambling is not for us to win but for them to become profitable and just look at the reality that most of us are losers and few only are successful, you are lucky and good enough if you belong to the group of people who makes money in gambling.

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Quote from: deisik on December 04, 2019, 03:41:48 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on December 02, 2019, 10:28:10 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 01, 2019, 12:45:14 PM

Within that timeframe, you will see enough outliers to increase your deposit sufficiently (actually, like many times, as this thread clearly proves, unless you hit the max bet limit). That will allow you to survive ever longer and longer losing streaks by changing your autobet settings accordingly in the process (let's call it escape adjustment). Indeed, everything said holds true only if the casino doesn't put piles of roadblocks on your way to success like disabling small bets, limiting bet speed, etc (and remains provably fair or just fair beyond the house edge at all times, of course)

That's technically all you need to know

Alright, I've read through that thread, and can say that I had similar thoughts at some point, but consider the following. When thinking that your winnings are constantly being added to your balance thus extending your survival times, calculate what percentage of your balance should be added to survive just one more loss. It appears that it is a shockingly big amount, equal to 100% of your initial balance. Now, to double your balance with a safe martingale setting you should make so many bets that hitting a longer losing streak that will kill you becomes very probable.

In short, if you can initially survive n losses, the likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling

In fact, I can confirm that

But you consider only one variable, which is generally a good idea and the correct thing to do, though not in this case. Simply put, you don't have to keep all other settings the same from the outset of your martingale journey. And I don't do that either. Since the "likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling", you can easily counterbalance this increase with other adjustments

Personally, I increase the win chance, and that gives me some peace of mind. You can do that too, but it still will be only in your mind, and purely psychological in nature because technically, this probability doesn't increase at all, no matter how many rolls you have made so far. In other words, you rolling for 30 years doesn't make the killing streak any closer for the simple reason it remains as far in the future as ever before (statistically speaking)

I bet (pun intended) that likelihood of losing streaks also changes from game to game.
specially because some games at the casino are designed in a way that player's edge is much smaller.

this is something to take into account too.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 02, 2019, 10:28:10 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 01, 2019, 12:45:14 PM

Within that timeframe, you will see enough outliers to increase your deposit sufficiently (actually, like many times, as this thread clearly proves, unless you hit the max bet limit). That will allow you to survive ever longer and longer losing streaks by changing your autobet settings accordingly in the process (let's call it escape adjustment). Indeed, everything said holds true only if the casino doesn't put piles of roadblocks on your way to success like disabling small bets, limiting bet speed, etc (and remains provably fair or just fair beyond the house edge at all times, of course)

That's technically all you need to know

Alright, I've read through that thread, and can say that I had similar thoughts at some point, but consider the following. When thinking that your winnings are constantly being added to your balance thus extending your survival times, calculate what percentage of your balance should be added to survive just one more loss. It appears that it is a shockingly big amount, equal to 100% of your initial balance. Now, to double your balance with a safe martingale setting you should make so many bets that hitting a longer losing streak that will kill you becomes very probable.

In short, if you can initially survive n losses, the likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling

In fact, I can confirm that

But you consider only one variable, which is generally a good idea and the correct thing to do, though not in this case. Simply put, you don't have to keep all other settings the same from the outset of your martingale journey. And I don't do that either. Since the "likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling", you can easily counterbalance this increase with other adjustments

Personally, I increase the win chance, and that gives me some peace of mind. You can do that too, but it still will be only in your mind, and purely psychological in nature because technically, this probability doesn't increase at all, no matter how many rolls you have made so far. In other words, you rolling for 30 years doesn't make the killing streak any closer for the simple reason it remains as far in the future as ever before (statistically speaking)

p3ppymon

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A question.
Do you think that professional poker players can be categorised as gamblers when they put some actual math into the game? Of course the gambling component is there when you need to play a flip, but there is more edge against the house (which in this case is the playing field).
Your thoughts please.

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Quote from: LogitechMouse on November 30, 2019, 02:46:21 AM

Quote from: DeathProxy on November 29, 2019, 11:32:48 AM

I can't really say if there are people who are gamblers by profession but i know there are people who live soley on gambling. Funds they used from their day to day runnings and activities comes from gambling, to some extent they are good at what they do, since they know that their livelihood depends on gambling they take out time to study the system of any offline or online casino they use thrn see if they can exploit any loopholes and for quite sometimes now it has been working for them

I don't think too that there are people who are being born to gamble. Sounds funny but if there are then it is destined to them to live for the sake of gambling Cheesy

.

Those professional gamblers can call gambling their profession but aside from gambling, for sure they have other sources of income and they are just gambling for either fun or to take more profit and that is why their are some who doesn't care if they lose on gambling because they have multiple sources of income that can cover their losses.

If some people were born to be gambler then others had a different role to play, a more productive one most probably and these people should not try to switch it with gamblers. They can enjoy the game but riding a train that a person does not hold a ticket for or not even leads to his destination, is indeed meaningless and dangerous. Gambling is not a profession but just a game and long time players become old gamblers not professional.

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Quote from: deisik on December 01, 2019, 12:45:14 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on December 01, 2019, 06:45:53 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 28, 2019, 11:58:19 AM

So you set your increase on loss as well as multiplier pretty high, and start small, the bare minimum. Given fast enough autobet, you wait for an outlier which will come sooner or later and bring you dough, like a couple percent at once. Then you increase your safety margin. Indeed, you may still bust but you must be extremely unlucky to end like that

I'm starting to understand your point, but still it's hard without real examples. I mean, the bankroll, the initial bet, the increase on loss, what are they? What do you mean by being "extremely unlucky", 10 losses in a row with 50% win chance, or 20 losses in a row? Because both cases can be called extremely unlucky ones, but there is a huge difference between them. I personally encountered 16 losses/wins in a row, so I know it's possible, but I would call 20 losses in a row with 50% win chance a really unlikely event (it is expected to happen once every 1,048,576 bets on a site with 1% house edge)

10 and 20 losses in a row on the same multiplier (aka win chance) are not the same (pardon the pun). Hitting 10 losses with a 50% win chance is not something that I would seriously consider "extremely unlucky" as you will likely see it within an hour or, if you are extremely lucky (sorry), in a day at best. Extremely unlucky to me is more like hitting the killing streak in a year or so (given the particular betting speed). Remember, you earn through variance, not by grinding along and collecting dust per hour, per day, or whatever

Within that timeframe, you will see enough outliers to increase your deposit sufficiently (actually, like many times, as this thread clearly proves, unless you hit the max bet limit). That will allow you to survive ever longer and longer losing streaks by changing your autobet settings accordingly in the process (let's call it escape adjustment). Indeed, everything said holds true only if the casino doesn't put piles of roadblocks on your way to success like disabling small bets, limiting bet speed, etc (and remains provably fair or just fair beyond the house edge at all times, of course)

That's technically all you need to know

Alright, I've read through that thread, and can say that I had similar thoughts at some point, but consider the following. When thinking that your winnings are constantly being added to your balance thus extending your survival times, calculate what percentage of your balance should be added to survive just one more loss. It appears that it is a shockingly big amount, equal to 100% of your initial balance. Now, to double your balance with a safe martingale setting you should make so many bets that hitting a longer losing streak that will kill you becomes very probable.

In short, if you can initially survive n losses, the likelihood of hitting an (n+1) losing streak is increasing faster than your balance is doubling.

Debonaire217

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Based on my understanding of the technical definition of profession, gambling cannot be considered as part of it. In the first place, having a profession is becoming reliable to malpractice, and having a license. In this case, having a license in gambling isn't needed, you can gamble anytime and nothing would stop you. Also, you are not reliable to malpractice, whenever you lose, you win, you aren't need to be responsible to something because what you just need to care about is yourself and your funds. So, there's no one having a profession as gambling but a passion as gambling could it could be.

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Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

We don't know if the professional gamblers can have much money for living. We can search the news about them, but I don't think that many professional gamblers will tell about their life and how they use gambling as a profession. They will keep that secret for themselves and not saying to the stranger. I guess that they are a master in poker or sports betting because that gambling games can be learned although it is difficult. But I am sure that they have much experience in gambling and of course, they have a high-skill in gambling. And they are living with us without anybody knows that they are professional gamblers.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: lienfaye on December 01, 2019, 05:49:20 AM

Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Well there are people who make a living through gambling, they treated it as their main source of income. They not rely mostly on luck but by their skills and strategy. This is not easy and only few people can do this and for normal gambler that is having a hard time to win its impossible to earn through gambling only.

Just by searching in google, you will find out that there are several professional gamblers that live this kind of lifestyle.
But I believe, most are into sports betting as the chance of winning is higher on this game.
If you have the experience, knowledge of the particular sport you are betting on, this one will give you the most advantage in gambling.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12280555/how-billy-walters-became-sports-most-successful-controversial-bettor

https://www.thatericalper.com/2019/09/26/6-tips-to-make-a-living-betting-on-sports-in-2019/

https://globalextramoney.com/special-reports/make-a-living-sports-betting

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 01, 2019, 06:45:53 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 28, 2019, 11:58:19 AM

So you set your increase on loss as well as multiplier pretty high, and start small, the bare minimum. Given fast enough autobet, you wait for an outlier which will come sooner or later and bring you dough, like a couple percent at once. Then you increase your safety margin. Indeed, you may still bust but you must be extremely unlucky to end like that

I'm starting to understand your point, but still it's hard without real examples. I mean, the bankroll, the initial bet, the increase on loss, what are they? What do you mean by being "extremely unlucky", 10 losses in a row with 50% win chance, or 20 losses in a row? Because both cases can be called extremely unlucky ones, but there is a huge difference between them. I personally encountered 16 losses/wins in a row, so I know it's possible, but I would call 20 losses in a row with 50% win chance a really unlikely event (it is expected to happen once every 1,048,576 bets on a site with 1% house edge)

10 and 20 losses in a row on the same multiplier (aka win chance) are not the same (pardon the pun). Hitting 10 losses with a 50% win chance is not something that I would seriously consider "extremely unlucky" as you will likely see it within an hour or, if you are extremely lucky (sorry), in a day at best. Extremely unlucky to me is more like hitting the killing streak in a year or so (given the particular betting speed). Remember, you earn through variance, not by grinding along and collecting dust per hour, per day, or whatever

Within that timeframe, you will see enough outliers to increase your deposit sufficiently (actually, like many times, as this thread clearly proves, unless you hit the max bet limit). That will allow you to survive ever longer and longer losing streaks by changing your autobet settings accordingly in the process (let's call it escape adjustment). Indeed, everything said holds true only if the casino doesn't put piles of roadblocks on your way to success like disabling small bets, limiting bet speed, etc (and remains provably fair or just fair beyond the house edge at all times, of course)

That's technically all you need to know

Golftech

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Quote from: onrise on December 01, 2019, 08:18:33 AM

Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Those people who have extra money and can afford to lose some or can stay without earning for few months can try out this option and just in case if they make some money good for them else they need to find out job or business etc to start back again.

It's much better to take if you will use spare money, things like this can stress you if you will entrust your entire savings. Once you lose everything will fall a part not even you are good in any types of gambling as shit can happen and miscalculations can hurt your bankroll to deep. People who have regular earnings can mixed gambling and try getting good benefits with their knowledge, it's difficult but can be done with the right system to use.

onrise

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Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Those people who have extra money and can afford to lose some or can stay without earning for few months can try out this option and just in case if they make some money good for them else they need to find out job or business etc to start back again.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on November 28, 2019, 11:58:19 AM

~
That's a skewed view (actually two views) on how to run a martingale setup (my way)

Variance here means that you earn only on long losing streaks which don't come too often, and are actually statistical outliers. That's why it is called variance, i.e. variation from the average (the average here being your average losing streak). In layman terms, you are looking for some really long streaks but not long enough to bust you

So you set your increase on loss as well as multiplier pretty high, and start small, the bare minimum. Given fast enough autobet, you wait for an outlier which will come sooner or later and bring you dough, like a couple percent at once. Then you increase your safety margin. Indeed, you may still bust but you must be extremely unlucky to end like that

I'm starting to understand your point, but still it's hard without real examples. I mean, the bankroll, the initial bet, the increase on loss, what are they? What do you mean by being "extremely unlucky", 10 losses in a row with 50% win chance, or 20 losses in a row? Because both cases can be called extremely unlucky ones, but there is a huge difference between them. I personally encountered 16 losses/wins in a row, so I know it's possible, but I would call 20 losses in a row with 50% win chance a really unlikely event (it is expected to happen once every 1,048,576 bets on a site with 1% house edge).

lienfaye

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Quote from: quarkfx on December 01, 2019, 05:32:17 AM

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Well there are people who make a living through gambling, they treated it as their main source of income. They not rely mostly on luck but by their skills and strategy. This is not easy and only few people can do this and for normal gambler that is having a hard time to win its impossible to earn through gambling only.

quarkfx

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Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

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Quote from: DeathProxy on November 29, 2019, 11:32:48 AM

I can't really say if there are people who are gamblers by profession but i know there are people who live soley on gambling. Funds they used from their day to day runnings and activities comes from gambling, to some extent they are good at what they do, since they know that their livelihood depends on gambling they take out time to study the system of any offline or online casino they use thrn see if they can exploit any loopholes and for quite sometimes now it has been working for them

I don't think too that there are people who are being born to gamble. Sounds funny but if there are then it is destined to them to live for the sake of gambling Cheesy

.

Those professional gamblers can call gambling their profession but aside from gambling, for sure they have other sources of income and they are just gambling for either fun or to take more profit and that is why their are some who doesn't care if they lose on gambling because they have multiple sources of income that can cover their losses.

KnightElite

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Quote from: deisik on November 30, 2019, 02:09:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

He is talking abut some mathematics here. Calculating the expected value and variance in order to increase the chances of winning. Going through all this trouble to just give oneself some hopes is insane. Gambling is just a game and should be played with the only purpose of fun. Trying to decrease the loss with such strategies ultimately does not work. Never heard of a gambler who managed to hit big amounts with this method

Rather statistics but I don't particularly mind (though I don't calculate the expected value)

Otherwise, I agree that people should be gambling for fun and personal enjoyment only. Wtf, this is what I'm continually saying myself here. And you can't win really big time with this method, I agree with that too. Casinos are not fools in general, and they put limits on how much you can bet (and win, for that matter). But it is not about decreasing the loss as it is more about randomness (provided the bets and their outcomes are genuinely random, of course) and how you use it to your advantage ("turn the tables" as I call it)

You will be pressured to make money in gambling if you will look it as your only source of income. Treat it as entertainment only because there is pychological benefits to it. Every gamblers should have limitations, they should know when to fold or when to continue.

deisik

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Quote from: ?? on ??

He is talking abut some mathematics here. Calculating the expected value and variance in order to increase the chances of winning. Going through all this trouble to just give oneself some hopes is insane. Gambling is just a game and should be played with the only purpose of fun. Trying to decrease the loss with such strategies ultimately does not work. Never heard of a gambler who managed to hit big amounts with this method

Rather statistics but I don't particularly mind (though I don't calculate the expected value)

Otherwise, I agree that people should be gambling for fun and personal enjoyment only. Wtf, this is what I'm continually saying myself here. And you can't win really big time with this method, I agree with that too. Casinos are not fools in general, and they put limits on how much you can bet (and win, for that matter). But it is not about decreasing the loss as it is more about randomness (provided the bets and their outcomes are genuinely random, of course) and how you use it to your advantage ("turn the tables" as I call it)

finaleshot2016

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Quote from: TrevorS on November 29, 2019, 09:58:22 AM

From my own experience I can say that the profession of a gambler is one of the most difficult from a psychological point of view. Professional gamblers are not those people who do nothing and easily earn their money, they are those people who spend a day on the fly working to improve their game. Those people who spend many hours of session working out their strategies. This is an extremely resource-intensive activity for success in which it is necessary to make an effort no less than at the factory. Only these will be mental efforts. I have several friends of professional gamblers, not one of them considers their work a gift.

Well, I agree with that 'cause those people, professional players, are doing their best just to win. There are different kinds of strategies they should remember in every professional game. They can't easily win money 'cause they need to give their best and fight for themselves to earn it. There are many sleepless nights that they have made just to think about a strategy for a single game. Also, there's a pressure on them 'cause your opponent will be also a professional and most of them have their card on their sleeves.

Topic: Gambling as a profession: there's people who live out of gambling? - page 28. (Read 6976 times)