Author

Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 103. (Read 262357 times)

sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Available Now!
December 29, 2013, 09:18:16 AM
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.

Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
December 29, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal

 Roll Eyes you cannot be serious.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Available Now!
December 29, 2013, 09:14:19 AM
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??

1.5% isn't a big deal
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
December 29, 2013, 09:10:36 AM
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days

According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so.  Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
December 29, 2013, 05:15:31 AM
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
December 28, 2013, 07:45:17 AM
Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund?  Grin

Why would we want to!?

And not sure we could, accredited investors probably dont troll lowly forums like this for advice Wink
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 2174
Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist
December 27, 2013, 11:23:05 PM
Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund?  Grin
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
December 27, 2013, 09:29:15 PM
Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.
legendary
Activity: 1040
Merit: 1001
December 27, 2013, 08:40:03 PM
Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
December 27, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!

Not likely.  Roth IRA contributions are phased out at $183,000 in income.  Just about anyone who is an accredited investor has no access to Roth IRA anyways.  Traditional IRAs aren't much better I mean if you are looking to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoins does it really matter than the first $5,000 each year can grow tax exempt?

Quote
Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

This is far more likely.  The wealthy are use to using experts to manage their wealth.  This is really no different then putting funds into a hedge fund.  They could pick their own stocks and day trade but they hand the money to an expert, they are already rich they don't need to do it their self anymore.

I am not implying rich people make Roth or IRA contributions, I doubt any do!  Rich people, and poor people, do what is called Roth conversion from their IRA's.  After 2010, their are no income limits.  So a person with a $100,000 IRA could convert those funds into a Roth in any year, they just need to pay taxes on the conversion amount.  Now buy into trust for $100k with Roth money, simple. 

As far as the IRA, rich people will add $49,000 a year into their 401k (own money plus company money), then that money can be converted to a regular IRA at any point.  Now they invest in trust via IRA money.  Simple again.

Either way, good for us. Smiley
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
December 27, 2013, 08:14:36 PM
And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!

Not likely.  Roth IRA contributions are phased out at $183,000 in income.  Just about anyone who is an accredited investor has no access to Roth IRA anyways.  Traditional IRAs aren't much better I mean if you are looking to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoins does it really matter than the first $5,000 each year can grow tax exempt?

Quote
Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 

This is far more likely.  The wealthy are use to using experts to manage their wealth.  This is really no different then putting funds into a hedge fund.  They could pick their own stocks and day trade but they hand the money to an expert, they are already rich they don't need to do it their self anymore.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 501
December 27, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
It's in the first post.  70 XBT on Dec 23 and 50 XBT on Dec 24.

There's some good size money going in this Bitcoin trust.  For a goal of $10MM by year's end, I think even SecondMarket has to be amazed at where there are today.  We want Wall Street investing.  Makes it more mainstream.  Plus these aren't just anyone, these are people verified who make $300k+ a year via tax return and/or have a net worth at $1MM+...and they have friends, who have friends, and know other "rich" people... Smiley

And I see people asking why you don't just buy Bitcoin directly.  Main reason is retirement funds.  You can use your IRA or even Roth IRA to buy into this trust.  Think about a Roth.  If you truly believe these will be huge in the future.  How about no taxes, ever, on money you withdrawal down the road?  Not a bad thought!  Second reason is these are "rich folk".  I would tend to think (that they think!) this is a lot more safe than wiring money to a bank in Slovenia or Japan and hoping that company sticks around.  We've already seen Mt Gox almost go a few months back and obviously many other exchanges have come and gone.  Can this go away?  Sure, but a lot less unlikely. 
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 255
December 26, 2013, 10:15:49 PM
It's in the first post.  70 XBT on Dec 23 and 50 XBT on Dec 24.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
December 26, 2013, 08:34:40 PM
update?
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
December 21, 2013, 03:34:01 AM
240XBT bought with 160k$
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
December 20, 2013, 10:46:15 AM
870XBT bought with 540k$
sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 251
December 19, 2013, 05:38:52 PM
870 bought.
sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 251
December 18, 2013, 02:53:20 PM
So according to their website, as of the 17th they now have 98.000+ coins. That's got to be a typo right?

They say they have net assets of $68.4 million right now. If they meant $48.4 million instead they only bought about 1000 coins, and that number seem far more reasonable than 30.000 coins+ in 24h.

Where do you find the 98000+ figure?

I assume he is just doing the math of $68.4MM / $69.66 = 98,000BTC

Does anyone have the private placement offering literature so we can learn how the NAV and Net Assets are calculated?

It is now shown as 47.9   M$. I think that was a typo

I still see $68.4M, even on a fresh computer's browser.

I think you are looking at: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

I am looking at this one: https://www.secondmarket.com/company/bitcoin-investment-trust

I believe the latter one is accurate

Ah!  Thanks...


I did indeed just do the math from the numbers found at the bitcointrust.co web page.

The numbers on the two pages seem to differ a bit regularly. I've done the math from the bitcointrust page multiple times before the numbers were posted in this thread, and my results have differed from the results posted here by a few 100 coins sometimes. This case was obviously just a typo, but I wonder why the pages have given slightly different results at other times though.
sr. member
Activity: 394
Merit: 250
December 17, 2013, 10:05:01 PM
So according to their website, as of the 17th they now have 98.000+ coins. That's got to be a typo right?

They say they have net assets of $68.4 million right now. If they meant $48.4 million instead they only bought about 1000 coins, and that number seem far more reasonable than 30.000 coins+ in 24h.

Where do you find the 98000+ figure?

I assume he is just doing the math of $68.4MM / $69.66 = 98,000BTC

Does anyone have the private placement offering literature so we can learn how the NAV and Net Assets are calculated?

It is now shown as 47.9   M$. I think that was a typo

I still see $68.4M, even on a fresh computer's browser.

I think you are looking at: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

I am looking at this one: https://www.secondmarket.com/company/bitcoin-investment-trust

I believe the latter one is accurate

Ah!  Thanks...

legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
December 17, 2013, 10:02:02 PM
So according to their website, as of the 17th they now have 98.000+ coins. That's got to be a typo right?

They say they have net assets of $68.4 million right now. If they meant $48.4 million instead they only bought about 1000 coins, and that number seem far more reasonable than 30.000 coins+ in 24h.

Where do you find the 98000+ figure?

I assume he is just doing the math of $68.4MM / $69.66 = 98,000BTC

Does anyone have the private placement offering literature so we can learn how the NAV and Net Assets are calculated?

It is now shown as 47.9   M$. I think that was a typo

I still see $68.4M, even on a fresh computer's browser.

I think you are looking at: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

I am looking at this one: https://www.secondmarket.com/company/bitcoin-investment-trust

I believe the latter one is accurate
Jump to: