Do people realize that if there were 120 other funds like SecondMarket with the same BTC holdings, there would not be enough bitcoins to go around?
That's why its only going to take a couple of hand fulls of these type of funds to move the price to 5 figures.
Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 102. (Read 262357 times)
wont shareholders of this trust crush the marked as soon as they can sell? even if only 5% want to sell, thats 3500 Btc :/ And pretty sure some want to secrue nice winnings
Given current user expansion rate of 30 to 40% per month, I don't think many would sell.
Eventually, I think we'll be left with a few very large investment trusts that are open ended, holding most of the bitcoins. When a large sale needs to be done, it will most likely go off market to avoid damaging market valuations.
This is how large holdings of gold work today. Governments sit on most of the gold and they trade off market for very large transactions.
I speculate that the FBI bitcoin stash will form part of the US government's future permanent hoard.
It might not be a "big deal" but it looks like Second Market is going to still reduce fees for the first quarter by a 1%.
Quote
Front End Fee: 1.5% (Reduced to 0.5% for Q1 2014)
Not bad. We need Vanguard to open an ETF with 0.05% yearly fee. Then I'm in.
wont shareholders of this trust crush the marked as soon as they can sell? even if only 5% want to sell, thats 3500 Btc :/ And pretty sure some want to secrue nice winnings
Who says they want to sell? Most of the major purchases of this were not when they initially started the trus in September. Most of the buy came in later Nov and Dec when the price had appreciated.
3500 BTC wouldn't crush the market anyway. 37k BTC have traded hands on Gox and Stamp (in USD, slightly more if you include other currencies) just in the last 24 hours. Would it cause a dip? No doubt. But the current market could easily sustain it.
wont shareholders of this trust crush the marked as soon as they can sell? even if only 5% want to sell, thats 3500 Btc :/ And pretty sure some want to secrue nice winnings
mr silbert will take care of this, don´t you think ?
wont shareholders of this trust crush the marked as soon as they can sell? even if only 5% want to sell, thats 3500 Btc :/ And pretty sure some want to secrue nice winnings
It might not be a "big deal" but it looks like Second Market is going to still reduce fees for the first quarter by a 1%.
Quote
Front End Fee: 1.5% (Reduced to 0.5% for Q1 2014)
Quote
i'm just saying a 1.5% discount is not enough of an incentive to make me jump in in a hurry. if i had definitely made up my mind about investing and thought the price would go to the moon in january, sure i would take an extra 1.5% but i think if you are rational and take a look at the past data (i haven't done this, and of course past data is no indication blah blah...) you will see that there will almost certainly be an opportunity to buy in 2014 at a >1.5% discount to the value on 31 december 2013, so it is no big deal.
Ok, I can agree with you then regarding the 1.5%. Just based on the resistance and support levels, which the resistance level was basically $700 on the way back up and we broke through that. Now the support level is around $700 actually (not exactly but we'll go with it). So we're approaching that level on Bitstamp. Does it hit and rebound again or break through? Based on your thinking you are thinking we're dropping more in Jan. If you think so then 1.5% doesn't matter!
But as you said, who really knows. Anyone's best guess. Just hope my guess is better than the rest...
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
and fyi i have invested much more than $100k, and 1.5% isnt a big deal to me in such a market
Ok, I'll give you that 1.5% isn't that big considering that XBT will move more than that in a given hour, let alone a given day. But if you were an investor, and thinking of buying into the trust, why not invest when you can own 2 extra Bitcoins (if investing $100k) now vs in January? Especially if you think long term Bitcoins will rise in value to a large amount in the future? Assuming of course you think $710 is a good starting point.
I think we both have agreed to mostly disagree but yet agree in a weird roundabout way. I get your point. It's all good.
i'm just saying a 1.5% discount is not enough of an incentive to make me jump in in a hurry. if i had definitely made up my mind about investing and thought the price would go to the moon in january, sure i would take an extra 1.5% but i think if you are rational and take a look at the past data (i haven't done this, and of course past data is no indication blah blah...) you will see that there will almost certainly be an opportunity to buy in 2014 at a >1.5% discount to the value on 31 december 2013, so it is no big deal.
The maths is simple. If one believes the expected value of the price in January is lower than 98.5% of the current price, the rational choice is not to invest now.
thank you. that is all
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
and fyi i have invested much more than $100k, and 1.5% isnt a big deal to me in such a market
Ok, I'll give you that 1.5% isn't that big considering that XBT will move more than that in a given hour, let alone a given day. But if you were an investor, and thinking of buying into the trust, why not invest when you can own 2 extra Bitcoins (if investing $100k) now vs in January? Especially if you think long term Bitcoins will rise in value to a large amount in the future? Assuming of course you think $710 is a good starting point.
I think we both have agreed to mostly disagree but yet agree in a weird roundabout way. I get your point. It's all good.
The maths is simple. If one believes the expected value of the price in January is lower than 98.5% of the current price, the rational choice is not to invest now.
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
and fyi i have invested much more than $100k, and 1.5% isnt a big deal to me in such a market
Then you are ignorant for throwing free margin.
And about the investment. Let's just say you're far from the only one. It's not like a $100k investment is a huge amount or anything
okay... good luck with your bitcoin consultancy.
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
and fyi i have invested much more than $100k, and 1.5% isnt a big deal to me in such a market
Then you are ignorant for throwing free margin.
And about the investment. Let's just say you're far from the only one. It's not like a $100k investment is a huge amount or anything
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
and fyi i have invested much more than $100k, and 1.5% isnt a big deal to me in such a market
wow forget it, you guys are more stupid than i thought
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
Really? $1500 is a big deal to you when you are investing $100,000?
No I am not implying I can time the bitcoin market, what I am saying is that it is very volatile. We have seen it go from $1100+ to under $500 in less than a week. You are crazy if you think anyone rational cares about 1.5% enough to rush in when there is an almost certain possibility it will go at least 10% below what it will be on the last day of the year (last day for the 1.5% discount)
YES, I'm not implying that, I'm saying it out loud.
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
Really? $1500 is a big deal to you when you are investing $100,000?
No I am not implying I can time the bitcoin market, what I am saying is that it is very volatile. We have seen it go from $1100+ to under $500 in less than a week. You are crazy if you think anyone rational cares about 1.5% enough to rush in when there is an almost certain possibility it will go at least 10% below what it will be on the last day of the year (last day for the 1.5% discount)
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
I definitely would. An asset being volatile does not mean 1.5% margin is something to be laughed at.
A high stakes professional poker player with a 1% edge would become a loser if he gave up 1.5%. Just saying.
this isn't poker, or a low-return stable asset. what you're saying makes little to no sense in a volatile market. if the price right now is $700, and you think there is a high probability it will be $600 in a couple of weeks, are you really going to rush in for a 1.5% discount?
Around 50XBT bought per day in the last few days
According to the website any investments made in 2013 get the 1.5% entry fee waived. I'm surprised we haven't seen more going into the fun in the last week or so. Maybe everyone who wanted in already went it??
1.5% isn't a big deal
you cannot be serious.Not sure what you mean, but when a market can move more than 20% in a day, I wouldn't be worried about saving 1.5% just to get in before 2014. I would wait for a good opportunity.
1.5% is a big deal when you're talking about $50k, $100k type of investments. The other thing is, you say a good opportunity. What's a "good opportunity"? Are you implying to can time the bitcoin market? Is it at $750? $700? $440?
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