Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 30. (Read 262354 times)
Updated with new format of reporting
The GBTC market closed at 49 dollars per share with volume of 2286 shares (less than 225 bitcoins).
Interesting thing is that MAXM has bids at $49 and an ask at $50.
Also we're not there yet but there is an upper limit to trading volume. Not everyone will be willing to trade shares. The amount of GBTC is currently capped so there's a bit of a limit to its liquidity.
Also we're not there yet but there is an upper limit to trading volume. Not everyone will be willing to trade shares. The amount of GBTC is currently capped so there's a bit of a limit to its liquidity.
Why is this interesting? I thought making a market and raking a spread is their business model.
Sorry for being ignorant, but how technically these fund fees are paid?
They are discounted when the shares are redeemed, i.e. returned to Grayscale in exchange for the BTC they are supposed to stand for.
Jorge's description isn't exactly how it works. Every business day, the Trust calculates its Net Asset Value (NAV). NAV is value of bitcoin and any cash, less accrued fees, expenses and some other stuff. As fee is earned or other expenses are paid, cash is used to pay those expenses, and bitcoin is sold if necessary. So NAV is constantly adjusting based on value of bitcoin and fees / expenses accrued. See here, searching for "Non-GAAP Net Asset Value." https://www.otciq.com/otciq/ajax/showFinancialReportById.pdf?id=135313
If and when redemptions are resumed, the NAV would be the basis on which redemptions are made. The NAV is also the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from BIT, although those shares would not be publicly tradeable for 12 months.
By the same token, when looking at the premium / discount of the share price vs. bitcoin, you should really be comparing to the daily NAV, not .1 of bitcoin. Which is here, click the market performance tab - $23.35: http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/ (It seems like the NAV on the old bitcointrust.co is no longer current, the Grayscale site is referred to in the OTC filings as the current official source).
The GBTC market closed at 50 dollars per share with volume of 2756 shares (less than 275 bitcoins).
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
I don't know why you put it like that, the volume today is only 3% lessThe volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
thanks, it would be helpful if I knew which day it was
Interesting thing is that MAXM has bids at $49 and an ask at $50.
Also we're not there yet but there is an upper limit to trading volume. Not everyone will be willing to trade shares. The amount of GBTC is currently capped so there's a bit of a limit to its liquidity.
Also we're not there yet but there is an upper limit to trading volume. Not everyone will be willing to trade shares. The amount of GBTC is currently capped so there's a bit of a limit to its liquidity.
The GBTC market closed at 50 dollars per share with volume of 2756 shares (less than 275 bitcoins).
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
I don't know why you put it like that, the volume today is only 3% lessThe volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
The GBTC market closed at 50 dollars per share with volume of 2756 shares (less than 275 bitcoins).
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
I don't know why you put it like that, the volume today is only 3% lessThe volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
y is SecondMarket.
I wish I could find a copy of the original prospectus. I'm curious if the initial trust had all the complexities related to authorized participants, or if it was a simpler structure, and was amended once they refined the OTC listing approach, in anticipation of eventually behaving more like a true ETF.
I wish I could find a copy of the original prospectus. I'm curious if the initial trust had all the complexities related to authorized participants, or if it was a simpler structure, and was amended once they refined the OTC listing approach, in anticipation of eventually behaving more like a true ETF.
Since the beginning, AFAIK, the full investment contract was confidential and shown only to investors, apparently with certain non-disclosure restrictions. The information on the BIT website was fairly terse. Grayscale was not mentioned (and presumably did not exist). There was no mention of brokers, Authorized Participants, or other intermediaries: accredited investors could buy BIT shares directly from BIT/Secondmarket, in dollars (minimum 25'000 USD, IIRC), and redeem them for dollars after the 6 month holding period.
Jorge's description isn't exactly how it works. Every business day, the Trust calculates its Net Asset Value (NAV). NAV is value of bitcoin and any cash, less accrued fees, expenses and some other stuff. As fee is earned or other expenses are paid, cash is used to pay those expenses, and bitcoin is sold if necessary. So NAV is constantly adjusting based on value of bitcoin and fees / expenses accrued. See here, searching for "Non-GAAP Net Asset Value." https://www.otciq.com/otciq/ajax/showFinancialReportById.pdf?id=135313
If and when redemptions are resumed, the NAV would be the basis on which redemptions are made. The NAV is also the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from BIT, although those shares would not be publicly tradeable for 12 months.
If and when redemptions are resumed, the NAV would be the basis on which redemptions are made. The NAV is also the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from BIT, although those shares would not be publicly tradeable for 12 months.
Not disputing this, except a detail: if I read correctly, the official filed documents (available through the OTCQX site) say that Grayscale takes only bitcoins, not dollars, when issuing new shares; and returns only bitcoins, not dollars, when the shares are dedeemed. It is some top-level brokers (of which SecondMarket is one, possibly the only one) who may take dollars from clients and buy bitcoins to give to Grayscale, or get bitcoins from Grayscale and may sell them to give dollars to clients. Did I read correctly?
Yes, I think you are correct. I should have said that NAV is the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from an Authorized Participant. And according to the last annual report, the only authorized participant currently is SecondMarket.
I wish I could find a copy of the original prospectus. I'm curious if the initial trust had all the complexities related to authorized participants, or if it was a simpler structure, and was amended once they refined the OTC listing approach, in anticipation of eventually behaving more like a true ETF.
Jorge's description isn't exactly how it works. Every business day, the Trust calculates its Net Asset Value (NAV). NAV is value of bitcoin and any cash, less accrued fees, expenses and some other stuff. As fee is earned or other expenses are paid, cash is used to pay those expenses, and bitcoin is sold if necessary. So NAV is constantly adjusting based on value of bitcoin and fees / expenses accrued. See here, searching for "Non-GAAP Net Asset Value." https://www.otciq.com/otciq/ajax/showFinancialReportById.pdf?id=135313
If and when redemptions are resumed, the NAV would be the basis on which redemptions are made. The NAV is also the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from BIT, although those shares would not be publicly tradeable for 12 months.
If and when redemptions are resumed, the NAV would be the basis on which redemptions are made. The NAV is also the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from BIT, although those shares would not be publicly tradeable for 12 months.
Not disputing this, except a detail: if I read correctly, the official filed documents (available through the OTCQX site) say that Grayscale takes only bitcoins, not dollars, when issuing new shares; and returns only bitcoins, not dollars, when the shares are dedeemed. It is some top-level brokers (of which SecondMarket is one, possibly the only one) who may take dollars from clients and buy bitcoins to give to Grayscale, or get bitcoins from Grayscale and may sell them to give dollars to clients. Did I read correctly?
Sorry for being ignorant, but how technically these fund fees are paid?
They are discounted when the shares are redeemed, i.e. returned to Grayscale in exchange for the BTC they are supposed to stand for.
Jorge's description isn't exactly how it works. Every business day, the Trust calculates its Net Asset Value (NAV). NAV is value of bitcoin and any cash, less accrued fees, expenses and some other stuff. As fee is earned or other expenses are paid, cash is used to pay those expenses, and bitcoin is sold if necessary. So NAV is constantly adjusting based on value of bitcoin and fees / expenses accrued. See here, searching for "Non-GAAP Net Asset Value." https://www.otciq.com/otciq/ajax/showFinancialReportById.pdf?id=135313
If and when redemptions are resumed, the NAV would be the basis on which redemptions are made. The NAV is also the price at which accredited investors can purchase directly from BIT, although those shares would not be publicly tradeable for 12 months.
By the same token, when looking at the premium / discount of the share price vs. bitcoin, you should really be comparing to the daily NAV, not .1 of bitcoin. Which is here, click the market performance tab - $23.35: http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/ (It seems like the NAV on the old bitcointrust.co is no longer current, the Grayscale site is referred to in the OTC filings as the current official source).
The GBTC market closed at 50 dollars per share with volume of 2756 shares (less than 275 bitcoins).
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
I don't know why you put it like that, the volume today is only 3% less
Sorry for being ignorant, but how technically these fund fees are paid?
They are discounted when the shares are redeemed, i.e. returned to Grayscale in exchange for the BTC they are supposed to stand for.
The GBTC market closed at 50 dollars per share with volume of 2756 shares (less than 275 bitcoins).
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
The volume was lower than Thursday's 2844. It remains to be seen if Friday's high volume was an anomaly.
You could sell your BIT shares before GBTC. If you held for 12 months. They were allowed to be liquidated once per month. That is considered a secondary market, albeit a very illiquid one.
Well, what can I say? That is not my recollection. What I read said that after 6 months shareholders could redeem, but not resell (except in special cases with express authorization from SecondMarket). The promised market was definitely distinct from redemption and from such exceptional sales.
if you refer to this forum, my advise is: nothing.
(back to eternal ignore..
) You could sell your BIT shares before GBTC. If you held for 12 months. They were allowed to be liquidated once per month. That is considered a secondary market, albeit a very illiquid one.
Well, what can I say? That is not my recollection. What I read said that after 6 months shareholders could redeem, but not resell (except in special cases with express authorization from SecondMarket). The promised market was definitely distinct from redemption and from such exceptional sales.
Not sure about the "nimble" part... When the fund started, they had promised an open market by Q2 2014. (And the minimum holding period was only 6 months.)
Fortune, Dan Primack, 2013-09-26
http://fortune.com/2013/09/26/first-bitcoin-investment-fund-launches/
Quote
Bitcoin Investment Trust plans to spend the first several months in asset-gathering mode, and will open up the secondary markets for trading six months after launch.
And I think you are misconstruing that quote.
First, it doesn't say "minimum holding period" of 6 months. It say they planned to open up "secondary markets" for trading six months after launch.
Second, secondary markets does not mean "open" market, which I'm assuming you take as equal to a "public" market. Long before bitcoin, Second Market got its start serving as a way for people to trade non-public securities. I.e. owners of Facebook stock before it went public, that were acquired either in VC rounds or via employee grants. It required purchasers to be accredited investors, and thus the transactions were exempt from requiring an SEC approved registration statement.
There may be nuances that escape me, but I remember reading such from the documents on their website. The clients could not redeem or sell their shares to other people before 6 months, and after that they would be allowed to trade them in a specific market, that had been promised for Q1 or Q2 2014. I recall rumbling in the SecondMarket Observer thread when Q2 2014 was up and no such market was provided.
If that "secondary market" was not OTCQX or something like it, what could it be? I had no news of any trading of BIT shares going on before GBTC started trading on OTCQX.
And I don't know when the 6 months became 12.
You could sell your BIT shares before GBTC. If you held for 12 months. They were allowed to be liquidated once per month. That is considered a secondary market, albeit a very illiquid one.
Not sure about the "nimble" part... When the fund started, they had promised an open market by Q2 2014. (And the minimum holding period was only 6 months.)
Fortune, Dan Primack, 2013-09-26
http://fortune.com/2013/09/26/first-bitcoin-investment-fund-launches/
Quote
Bitcoin Investment Trust plans to spend the first several months in asset-gathering mode, and will open up the secondary markets for trading six months after launch.
And I think you are misconstruing that quote.
First, it doesn't say "minimum holding period" of 6 months. It say they planned to open up "secondary markets" for trading six months after launch.
Second, secondary markets does not mean "open" market, which I'm assuming you take as equal to a "public" market. Long before bitcoin, Second Market got its start serving as a way for people to trade non-public securities. I.e. owners of Facebook stock before it went public, that were acquired either in VC rounds or via employee grants. It required purchasers to be accredited investors, and thus the transactions were exempt from requiring an SEC approved registration statement.
There may be nuances that escape me, but I remember reading such from the documents on their website. The clients could not redeem or sell their shares to other people before 6 months, and after that they would be allowed to trade them in a specific market, that had been promised for Q1 or Q2 2014. I recall rumbling in the SecondMarket Observer thread when Q2 2014 was up and no such market was provided.
If that "secondary market" was not OTCQX or something like it, what could it be? I had no news of any trading of BIT shares going on before GBTC started trading on OTCQX.
And I don't know when the 6 months became 12.
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