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Topic: Gigamining / Teramining - page 102. (Read 216450 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 04:48:07 PM
It really is obvious in hindsight....wish I had seen it sooner. 

The only way Giga could get hurt on this is if difficulty plunged.....which seems preposterous with the coming technology changes. 

He went massively short on the value of hashes, and is gonna get PAID. 

GIGA has taken on significant risk and the profit, if any, he earns the the reward for combining capital and labor in his entrepreneurial endeavor.

There are still significant risk factors which he has not yet completely overcome, besides just difficulty plunging as you point out, so to presume he is going to get paid is not necessarily a correct assertion.

For example, the hardware could fail and the warrant either not be effective or BFL could fail to perform on it.

But there are other larger risks that I can see.

He has already taken in at least $200k from the bonds issued four boxes so far $60k so $140k in his pocket minus the ponzi payments over the last few months, the profit has already been made in his pocket/BTC wallet with no risk as it was other peoples money who paid for it all..

I have to agree with this.

Gigavps is a freakin genius Wink

gigavps, may I ask what your tested standard IQ is ? Must be over 9000 !

Stop being jellyfish about it guys, this dude rocks hard just like pirateat40 !

Best of luck giga !
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 21, 2012, 04:41:22 PM
It really is obvious in hindsight....wish I had seen it sooner. 

The only way Giga could get hurt on this is if difficulty plunged.....which seems preposterous with the coming technology changes. 

He went massively short on the value of hashes, and is gonna get PAID. 

GIGA has taken on significant risk and the profit, if any, he earns the the reward for combining capital and labor in his entrepreneurial endeavor.

There are still significant risk factors which he has not yet completely overcome, besides just difficulty plunging as you point out, so to presume he is going to get paid is not necessarily a correct assertion.

For example, the hardware could fail and the warrant either not be effective or BFL could fail to perform on it.

But there are other larger risks that I can see.

He has already taken in at least $200k from the bonds issued four boxes so far $60k so $140k in his pocket minus the ponzi payments over the last few months, the profit has already been made in his pocket/BTC wallet with no risk as it was other peoples money who paid for it all..
legendary
Activity: 1031
Merit: 1000
June 21, 2012, 04:22:42 PM
It really is obvious in hindsight....wish I had seen it sooner. 

The only way Giga could get hurt on this is if difficulty plunged.....which seems preposterous with the coming technology changes. 

He went massively short on the value of hashes, and is gonna get PAID. 

GIGA has taken on significant risk and the profit, if any, he earns the the reward for combining capital and labor in his entrepreneurial endeavor.

There are still significant risk factors which he has not yet completely overcome, besides just difficulty plunging as you point out, so to presume he is going to get paid is not necessarily a correct assertion.

For example, the hardware could fail and the warrant either not be effective or BFL could fail to perform on it.

But there are other larger risks that I can see.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 04:08:07 PM
Then I will make it my trademark, so you can stop reading it.  Smiley

May I ask why? I find it easier.

You're the only one who does.
And reading your posts is a PITA because of it.


Welcome to my ignore list


Don't make my cry! You jump to fast to conclusions, settle down.


yea, umadbroZnort? He was just playin', m8 ;p
donator
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 04:02:07 PM
Then I will make it my trademark, so you can stop reading it.  Smiley

May I ask why? I find it easier.

You're the only one who does.
And reading your posts is a PITA because of it.


Welcome to my ignore list


Don't make my cry! You jump to fast to conclusions, settle down.
donator
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 03:50:45 PM
Then I will make it my trademark, so you can stop reading it.  Smiley

May I ask why? I find it easier.

You're the only one who does.
And reading your posts is a PITA because of it.

rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 21, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
A forum reads top-to-bottom, like any website.
donator
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 03:45:45 PM
May I ask why? I find it easier.

Please don't top-post. Top-posting is for emails.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
June 21, 2012, 03:44:43 PM
Please don't top-post. Top-posting is for emails.
donator
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 03:44:11 PM
It might cross his mind. I'm sure he will do what is best for him.

I'm pretty sure, he will have big competition. The best for him will be to stay out of mining.

Are you saying that come trade in time that he should cash in his chips and seek the next venture?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
I'm pretty sure, he will have big competition. The best for him will be to stay out of mining.

Are you saying that come trade in time that he should cash in his chips and seek the next venture?
donator
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 03:40:10 PM
I'm pretty sure, he will have big competition. The best for him will be to stay out of mining.


Giga is going to clear 100K for doing nothing more than buying hashes at $.60 per MH/s, and selling them at $1.20 per MH/s.  

Insanely jealous does not begin to describe my feelings!

"nothing more" and having the foresight to invision such an endeavour functioning profitably!  Jealous too, I are. ;p



@DILLIGAF, I'd give ya anything else, and Giga is certainly not a foolhardy businessman. But a ponzi? Even if any of the prescribed situations are true, to label it a ponzi would require the forethought to structure it as such. I just don't see it.

It really is obvious in hindsight....wish I had seen it sooner. 

The only way Giga could get hurt on this is if difficulty plunged.....which seems preposterous with the coming technology changes. 

He went massively short on the value of hashes, and is gonna get PAID. 
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
June 21, 2012, 03:35:47 PM

Giga is going to clear 100K for doing nothing more than buying hashes at $.60 per MH/s, and selling them at $1.20 per MH/s.  

Insanely jealous does not begin to describe my feelings!

"nothing more" and having the foresight to invision such an endeavour functioning profitably!  Jealous too, I are. ;p



@DILLIGAF, I'd give ya anything else, and Giga is certainly not a foolhardy businessman. But a ponzi? Even if any of the prescribed situations are true, to label it a ponzi would require the forethought to structure it as such. I just don't see it.

It really is obvious in hindsight....wish I had seen it sooner. 

The only way Giga could get hurt on this is if difficulty plunged.....which seems preposterous with the coming technology changes. 

He went massively short on the value of hashes, and is gonna get PAID. 
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
June 21, 2012, 03:33:36 PM

Giga is going to clear 100K for doing nothing more than buying hashes at $.60 per MH/s, and selling them at $1.20 per MH/s.  

Insanely jealous does not begin to describe my feelings!

"nothing more" and having the foresight to envision such an endeavour functioning profitably!  Jealous too, I are. ;p



@DILLIGAF, I'd give ya anything else, and Giga is certainly not a foolhardy businessman. But a ponzi? Even if any of the prescribed situations are true, to label it a ponzi would require the forethought to structure it as such. I just don't see it.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
June 21, 2012, 03:31:18 PM
Gotcha.

Giga is going to clear 100K for doing nothing more than buying hashes at $.60 per MH/s, and selling them at $1.20 per MH/s. 

Insanely jealous does not begin to describe my feelings!

Sure if you don't mind running a ponzi which last time I checked was illegal...

Why do you keep calling it a Ponzi?
Quote from: Inigo Montoya
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
If I run a coal company and issue a bond to fund a future mine, does that mean I'm running a Ponzi in order to raise capital to fund said future mine?

For that matter, do you consider government bonds a Ponzi, since they rely on future productivity to pay out the dividends on the bonds?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 21, 2012, 03:27:11 PM

So what was your point in the first place?  I said he is obviously paying out of pocket, and it is hella shrewd.  You disagreed and said only if he is invested with Pirate.....but now you are agreeing with me?  

My head is spining.  
I was responding to ciuciu saying that Gigamining would go down if Pirate did, by showing that even with conservative numbers that Gigamining could make a ton of money even without Pirate. He just puts quotes under his text instead of on top so it looks a little funny.

Gotcha.

Giga is going to clear 100K for doing nothing more than buying hashes at $.60 per MH/s, and selling them at $1.20 per MH/s. 

Insanely jealous does not begin to describe my feelings!

Sure if you don't mind running a ponzi which last time I checked was illegal...
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
June 21, 2012, 03:25:03 PM

So what was your point in the first place?  I said he is obviously paying out of pocket, and it is hella shrewd.  You disagreed and said only if he is invested with Pirate.....but now you are agreeing with me?  

My head is spining.  
I was responding to ciuciu saying that Gigamining would go down if Pirate did, by showing that even with conservative numbers that Gigamining could make a ton of money even without Pirate. He just puts quotes under his text instead of on top so it looks a little funny.

Gotcha.

Giga is going to clear 100K for doing nothing more than buying hashes at $.60 per MH/s, and selling them at $1.20 per MH/s. 

Insanely jealous does not begin to describe my feelings!
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
June 21, 2012, 03:21:33 PM

So what was your point in the first place?  I said he is obviously paying out of pocket, and it is hella shrewd.  You disagreed and said only if he is invested with Pirate.....but now you are agreeing with me?  

My head is spining.  
I was responding to ciuciu saying that Gigamining would go down if Pirate did, by showing that even with conservative numbers that Gigamining could make a ton of money even without Pirate. He just puts quotes under his text instead of on top so it looks a little funny.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
June 21, 2012, 03:17:58 PM
I think your assumptions are pretty off.

1)  he only issued 10K of the bonds at 1 BTC.  I am sure the other 30K were issued near market price.
2)  the exchange rate has been demonstrabley higher than $5 on average since GIGA floated the bond in April.
3)  he has only paid out a total of 4,057 BTC in coupons thusfar (I have no clue where you came up with 15K), some of which is covered by his current farm


Here is a more realistic look at the situation:

1)  Giga floats a total of 40,000 bonds at an average price of 1.1 BTC
2)  Giga converts 21,818 BTC @ an average of $5.5 to purchase the 8 mini rigs
3)  Cancels 4 of them and gets a refund of 60K

So this is where we are at the moment.....put yourself if Giga's shoes.  What would you do?

You now have 18,125 BTC left from the bond issuance (44,000 - 21,818 - 5,057), as well as the $60,000 in cash from the refund.  With the coming ASICs, you KNOW difficulty is going to massively increase, hugely depressing the coupon payments.  

Assuming NO increase in difficulty (which is silly), you only has to pay out around 450 BTC a week (remember you have over 100 GH/s producing).  That means you can pay coupons for 40 weeks before exhausting your BTC taken in on the issuance, and STILL be left with $60,000 in your pocket.  

I think we all know what you would do.......

I made those assumptions because 1) they're more conservative and 2) they're easier. You're right that he would likely have more BTC available and will be in a much better position come October (or December, or February). Either way, Giga is in a great position here. He's likely to be first in line for MiniRig SC, so he'll make a killing when difficulty only doubles before it really explodes. If he doesn't offer the upgrade he was talking about, he has a huge farm that will probably stay current for a very long time in BTC terms for nothing out of pocket. If he does offer the upgrade path for a fee, he'll collect all the fees to his own pocket. Either way, win for him. He took the risk back in February to preorder the Minirigs out of pocket and then issued the bonds even though BFL Singles deliveries and specs were a clusterfuck, and he was rewarded for it.

So what was your point in the first place?  I said he is obviously paying out of pocket, and it is hella shrewd.  You disagreed and said only if he is invested with Pirate.....but now you are agreeing with me?  

My head is spining.  
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
June 21, 2012, 03:17:10 PM
He spent none of his money so had no risk.
I edited my post to clarify what I said above, but my understanding is that Giga ordered the Minirigs before he issued the bond, and long before the bond ballooned to 40k shares.
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