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Topic: Gigamining / Teramining - page 64. (Read 216459 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
November 24, 2012, 09:02:37 PM
I'd much rather see my money to go the Bitcoin foundation.

If some people are unwilling to release their personal details and would rather sign a message with the associated btc address invalidating their claim, I think that those coins can be donated to the Bitcoin Foundation.

This is not an unreasonable request and I will speak with counsel to see if something like this can work.


That makes absolutely ZERO sense.

If you're willing to send the money to Bitcoin Foundation if they sign the message with their BTC address, then why can't they just do that and then you send THEM the bitcoins?  That's totally and utterly inconsistent.
legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 1001
November 24, 2012, 08:29:23 PM
Seems to me if glcrapbse failed the operator should buy back all bonds at issue price and pay out divs to the day they are bought back in btc. Recall the operator disliked mixing in fiat. So 1 btc back then, 1 btc today. No way to determine fair price on active market.. Thus use issue price.
That seems fair.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
November 24, 2012, 08:09:09 PM
I'd much rather see my money to go the Bitcoin foundation.

If some people are unwilling to release their personal details and would rather sign a message with the associated btc address invalidating their claim, I think that those coins can be donated to the Bitcoin Foundation.

This is not an unreasonable request and I will speak with counsel to see if something like this can work.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
November 24, 2012, 07:39:25 PM
I wonder, out of curiosity, how many of the 10% Gigavps mentioned were "reputable" forum members vs. freeloading new members. Sorry to all for this mess.
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 500
November 24, 2012, 07:37:22 PM
Stop trying to place blame on GLBSE, its your negligence and by taking the legal route you are just making things worse for yourself, if you have to spend 1000s on legal fees and hours in court then thats what's going to happen.

As someone else stated you could have worked this out partially on a case by case basis, I'm.sure you know people who you can resolve with without lawyer intervention

EDIT: you state that you cannot verifiy the list nefario gave you, so can I ask why you placed trust in him and his platform to host your contract and all of a sudden decide not to trust him? Again this is your negligence.

You also seems to not read anything I write. The list is a starting point. The list needs to be verified. I need to have legal recourse if things go awry. This is to protect all Gigaminers.

The lawyer is involved so people can trust that their information can be held in confidence. It is a lawyer's sworn duty to uphold laws and play by the rules.

Please look past your blinding anger and try to see another point of view.

Why should you personally benefit because people cant claim their shares.

What are you going to do with the leftover shares that people cant claim. Even if it goes to the fucking bitcoin foundation its better than you putting it in your own pocket.

You walk away with all the equipment and all their future coins it generates. What are you going to do to address this ?


I sort of expected this to be one of the questions that gets answered on Monday.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself, but I only had a few shares and I'm one of those people who isn't going to jump through a bunch of hoops and spend money on notaries just to get a few measly coins back. I'd much rather see my money to go the Bitcoin foundation.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 24, 2012, 07:32:46 PM
Stop trying to place blame on GLBSE, its your negligence and by taking the legal route you are just making things worse for yourself, if you have to spend 1000s on legal fees and hours in court then thats what's going to happen.

As someone else stated you could have worked this out partially on a case by case basis, I'm.sure you know people who you can resolve with without lawyer intervention

EDIT: you state that you cannot verifiy the list nefario gave you, so can I ask why you placed trust in him and his platform to host your contract and all of a sudden decide not to trust him? Again this is your negligence.

You also seems to not read anything I write. The list is a starting point. The list needs to be verified. I need to have legal recourse if things go awry. This is to protect all Gigaminers.

The lawyer is involved so people can trust that their information can be held in confidence. It is a lawyer's sworn duty to uphold laws and play by the rules.

Please look past your blinding anger and try to see another point of view.

Why should you personally benefit because people cant claim their shares.

What are you going to do with the leftover shares that people cant claim. Even if it goes to the fucking bitcoin foundation its better than you putting it in your own pocket.

You walk away with all the equipment and all their future coins it generates. What are you going to do to address this ?
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
November 24, 2012, 07:29:55 PM
Stop trying to place blame on GLBSE, its your negligence and by taking the legal route you are just making things worse for yourself, if you have to spend 1000s on legal fees and hours in court then thats what's going to happen.

As someone else stated you could have worked this out partially on a case by case basis, I'm.sure you know people who you can resolve with without lawyer intervention

EDIT: you state that you cannot verifiy the list nefario gave you, so can I ask why you placed trust in him and his platform to host your contract and all of a sudden decide not to trust him? Again this is your negligence.

You also seems to not read anything I write. The list is a starting point. The list needs to be verified. I need to have legal recourse if things go awry. This is to protect all Gigaminers.

The lawyer is involved so people can trust that their information can be held in confidence. It is a lawyer's sworn duty to uphold laws and play by the rules.

Please look past your blinding anger and try to see another point of view.

Best of luck to you Giga and all the shareholders. I didn't happen to hold any gigamining shares at the time of shutdown, but it could just as easily be me in the same boat.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 24, 2012, 07:28:07 PM
Will people who buy MPEX shares be liable if Mr Popescu shuts down and runs off with everyones coins HuhHuhHuhHuh?



Ah, what a tangled web we weave. GLBSE shareholder means not the same as MPEx shareholder, and if you indemnify shareholders what exactly do you expect from customers?

But otherwise, re-read this.

Quote
[18:41:06] shareholder1 So theres literally nothing we can do

Welll....


No one signed the bylaws or any partnership contract.

You being a lover of gpg contracts can understand perfectly what that means.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
November 24, 2012, 07:27:03 PM
Stop trying to place blame on GLBSE, its your negligence and by taking the legal route you are just making things worse for yourself, if you have to spend 1000s on legal fees and hours in court then thats what's going to happen.

As someone else stated you could have worked this out partially on a case by case basis, I'm.sure you know people who you can resolve with without lawyer intervention

EDIT: you state that you cannot verifiy the list nefario gave you, so can I ask why you placed trust in him and his platform to host your contract and all of a sudden decide not to trust him? Again this is your negligence.

You also seems to not read anything I write. The list is a starting point. The list needs to be verified. I need to have legal recourse if things go awry. This is to protect all Gigaminers.

The lawyer is involved so people can trust that their information can be held in confidence. It is a lawyer's sworn duty to uphold laws and play by the rules.

Please look past your blinding anger and try to see another point of view.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
November 24, 2012, 06:48:53 PM
Are you only here to troll?

Either way, he's certainly a social deviant.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
November 24, 2012, 06:46:37 PM
hurt the operator

How does hurting me solve anything?

Did he not already default on payments?

The only reasons payments stopped was because GLBSE shut down. I actually sent in 500 BTC to GLBSE hours before they closed for the next weeks coupon payment.

Or him pooling up profits is ok with everyone and changing terms to get it legit?

GLBSE changed the terms by closing.

Bankrupt his operation and make it hurt his wallet instead of yours.

Bankrupting me is not going to get Gigaminers their coupon payments.

You seem to ignore all of the points that I have made regarding why a claims process even exists.

Are you only here to troll?
legendary
Activity: 2072
Merit: 1001
November 24, 2012, 06:29:11 PM
Theory like that.

Let's suppose Nefario removed some real asset holders from the list, to put false information for addresses controlled by him.  Based on the data GLBSE requested to make an account, it's probably a bunch of usernames with BTC address and assets ID. It's not that hard for Nefario to create a dozen of BTC addresses and simply change some of the address in the list. What happen if gigavps blindly follow the list without any verification?

Don't forget Nefario IS a scammer and has proven himself untrustworthy.

I don't own any gigamining assets, I'm simply looking at that and consider that gigavps is in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation.

From what you are stating, how does providing all this personal information resolve the issue of a corrupt list exactly ? He only has a list with 3 pieces of information, which could have all been changed by Nefario.

I think James' rent-a-lawyer needs to respond to this query, quite a few have asked it. Why should we all waste time and money on resolving this if its not even plausible

Well, if you try to make a false claim submitting all the info required, it's not going to be that hard to sue you back. It's a way to protect you legally. Also, Nefario could not create 5-6 ID for his different claims, so it prevent that possibility.

Also, if I wanted to scam gigavps by making a false claim, I would simply submit my claim and be very vocal on this forum. It's a cheap way to make pressure on him and maybe force a mistake. If it doesn't work, well, there's not much to lose, since proving a false claim is almost impossible right now.

I'm not accusing anybody, just trying to offer different perspective to this incredible mess.

Any way i look at it, James will come out on top with the SC mini rigs he acquires from this incredible mess.

And that was the plan from the beginning. To make money off bitcoin suckers.. Er users. A virtual land rush of opportunity for the early to bilk users on this security nonsense when none was needed.

Users should demand their money back in the best way for them to hurt the operator who is now withholding money owed. Did he not already default on payments? Or him pooling up profits is ok with everyone and changing terms to get it legit?

Bankrupt his operation and make it hurt his wallet instead of yours. Get together into one group and make demands. Put the pressure on. Contact bfl and tell them product is being bought with stolen money.

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
November 24, 2012, 06:21:55 PM
In this sense, the models are not significantly different: they both try to solve a situation as best possible. You are arguing for one rather than the other, which is fine. The OP not picking your favorite is not necessarily a crime: the model he did pick has significant advantages (it is legally sound, for one; it allows the users themselves to choose whether they want to be slaughtered or not, as opposed to just "Oops, you hadn't stamped a card on Aug 17th? Ah well, poopy for you" for another).

I would agree entirely if there were no chain of ownership information whatsoever. Since there is a list that apparently has at least some valid information, it could be argued as irresponsible and to the detriment of shareholders if it weren't used fully.

The problem, however, is that whether you accept it or not is irrelevant. You're not the standard to measure this by. I'm not either, nor is anyone else (or even, "everyone else", as in, all the F in corpus).

A good representation of the kernel of the problem is right here: we used to have a measuring stick. It burned. Now we have no measuring stick.

Correct, but we do have different classes as you've pointed out. There is no one-size-fits-all answer, and treating all of them the same is a disservice. Due to the circumstances, both solutions would be necessary to afford the best chance for as many shareholders to be accommodated as possible. If giga wants to enforce the current solution afterward, at least there will be an option of parting ways.

As far as giga's situation, I can understand the difficulty. At the same time, there is the ability to handle claims on a case-by-case basis without resorting to disclosure of private information for all owners. Some additional work now can speed the transition to a single solution. For example: if a shareholder has assets with multiple issuers, the information can be cross-referenced by issuers with the shareholder's permission. This still relies upon nefario's list being valid, but it reduces the chance of independent fraud from the client side.
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
November 24, 2012, 06:08:34 PM
Theory like that.

Let's suppose Nefario removed some real asset holders from the list, to put false information for addresses controlled by him.  Based on the data GLBSE requested to make an account, it's probably a bunch of usernames with BTC address and assets ID. It's not that hard for Nefario to create a dozen of BTC addresses and simply change some of the address in the list. What happen if gigavps blindly follow the list without any verification?

Don't forget Nefario IS a scammer and has proven himself untrustworthy.

I don't own any gigamining assets, I'm simply looking at that and consider that gigavps is in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation.

From what you are stating, how does providing all this personal information resolve the issue of a corrupt list exactly ? He only has a list with 3 pieces of information, which could have all been changed by Nefario.

I think James' rent-a-lawyer needs to respond to this query, quite a few have asked it. Why should we all waste time and money on resolving this if its not even plausible

Well, if you try to make a false claim submitting all the info required, it's not going to be that hard to sue you back. It's a way to protect you legally. Also, Nefario could not create 5-6 ID for his different claims, so it prevent that possibility.

Also, if I wanted to scam gigavps by making a false claim, I would simply submit my claim and be very vocal on this forum. It's a cheap way to make pressure on him and maybe force a mistake. If it doesn't work, well, there's not much to lose, since proving a false claim is almost impossible right now.

I'm not accusing anybody, just trying to offer different perspective to this incredible mess.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
November 24, 2012, 05:59:45 PM
Will people who buy MPEX shares be liable if Mr Popescu shuts down and runs off with everyones coins HuhHuhHuhHuh?



Ah, what a tangled web we weave. GLBSE shareholder means not the same as MPEx shareholder, and if you indemnify shareholders what exactly do you expect from customers?

But otherwise, re-read this.

Quote
[18:41:06] shareholder1 So theres literally nothing we can do

Welll....
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 24, 2012, 05:46:06 PM
Did you have any plan at all for what would happen to your business if glbse went  down? If not, what are you doing running such a  large business in the first place. Do you even have business insurance ? Do you even have a business plan that considered these risks ?

This coming from GLBSE shareholderX has such a lulzy feel to it.

Since when are shareholders responsible for the actions of company officers ?

Do you have the power to tell steve jobs how to design an iphone because you own a few apple shares ?



Exactly, so why are you trying to tell him how to run his business now??!?!?!?!?

haha, burn

Regardless, buying stock in a company doesnt make you liable for its actions.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1031
November 24, 2012, 05:40:50 PM
Did you have any plan at all for what would happen to your business if glbse went  down? If not, what are you doing running such a  large business in the first place. Do you even have business insurance ? Do you even have a business plan that considered these risks ?

This coming from GLBSE shareholderX has such a lulzy feel to it.

Since when are shareholders responsible for the actions of company officers ?

Do you have the power to tell steve jobs how to design an iphone because you own a few apple shares ?



Exactly, so why are you trying to tell him how to run his business now??!?!?!?!?

haha, burn
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 24, 2012, 05:40:17 PM
Did you have any plan at all for what would happen to your business if glbse went  down? If not, what are you doing running such a  large business in the first place. Do you even have business insurance ? Do you even have a business plan that considered these risks ?

This coming from GLBSE shareholderX has such a lulzy feel to it.

Will people who buy MPEX shares be liable if Mr Popescu shuts down and runs off with everyones coins HuhHuhHuhHuh?

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 24, 2012, 05:34:59 PM
Did you have any plan at all for what would happen to your business if glbse went  down? If not, what are you doing running such a  large business in the first place. Do you even have business insurance ? Do you even have a business plan that considered these risks ?

This coming from GLBSE shareholderX has such a lulzy feel to it.

Since when are shareholders responsible for the actions of company officers ?

Do you have the power to tell steve jobs how to design an iphone because you own a few apple shares ?

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
November 24, 2012, 05:30:34 PM
Did you have any plan at all for what would happen to your business if glbse went  down? If not, what are you doing running such a  large business in the first place. Do you even have business insurance ? Do you even have a business plan that considered these risks ?

This coming from GLBSE shareholderX has such a lulzy feel to it.
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