Topic: Gigamining / Teramining - page 86. (Read 216459 times)

Hi szuetam,

Gigamining is completely reliant on glbse.com for a couple things.

• Buy / selling of bonds between individuals.
• Dividend disbursements.
• Allowing individuals to see their holdings.

If glbse.com were to stop existing, it would be a nightmare. I'm sure if that were to happen, I could get a list of bond holders, withdrawal addresses and their holdings but verifying a couple hundred individuals would take a serious amount of time.

There is no good answer to glbse.com going away, but it's probably doable.

Best,
gigavps

I don't know if it is right place, but:

What if GLBSE will get closed by some circumstances (in example close by gov, or because default)?

Would I have still my shares?
Would it be possible to move to other Exchange operator without loosing our shares?

It seems possible for me, but I want to get your opinion GigaVPS?

It would be great if you could assure as that we are GLBSE-down-proof.

We would some no-GLBSE identification (private-public-key) between shareholders and you.

To all Gigaminers:

Coupon payments for the week have been paid.

Enjoy,
gigavps

Thank you for robust answer.

To all Gigaminers,

Even with Sonny's past coming to light, I am proud to do business with Sonny, Josh, Nasser and everyone else at Butterfly Labs. They are a great group of people and they have proven that they can over deliver on their latest product release (the mini rigs). Gigamining is run with a lot of BFL equipment and I am proud to continue to do so. Their equipment thus far have been revolutionary in bitcoin mining and I expect nothing less with their next generation ASIC products.

Best,
gigavps

Hey GigaVPS
What do you think about that:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0?

Are you familiar with that?
Are you concerned about that, if not why?
I'm curious about your opinion as a shareholder.

This answer is vague enough and confused enough that I can confidently say that it is wrong.

 Initial costs and operating costs are in dollars and these "risks" go down at the value of BTC rises. The dividend obligation is in BTC and does not vary with value. This "risk" is constant.

Though I think your suggestion of lowering the price as the value of BTC rises is a good one, remember that gigavps is free to structure the deal anyway he wants. Others will make their deals, which might be better or worse, and we are free to choose.

Sure, but in this case the cost that gigamining shareholders are paying for is in USD.  BFL charged Gigavps in USD for the upgrade, why don't we as the shareholders contribute to him that equivalent amount in BTC?  I don't get how this has gotten so complicated, it should be pretty transparent.  I don't mind Giga taking extra cuts for running the operation or any of that - he deserves to, but the upgrade fee feels like it might be a big flat payout.  I guess we won't know until we find out how many share were upgraded, but if they all did 40k*.29*$12 we just paid $130k to do $100k worth of upgrades.  The problem with pre-valued the cost is .29BTC is that if BTC goes up or down Giga takes a loss or makes money.  As a share holder I'd rather help him assume that risk; I guess I think it shouldn't be pre-valued at all.

If that were the case, it's smarter to tie it to a less volatile instrument, such as a basket of weighted currencies and possibly precious metals.  Given QE∞, can we be sure that parts from Asia won't increase in price on a USD basis?

It's easier and more appropriate to the international Bitcoin community to talk BTC and not "BTC equivalent of $x."  Sometimes, the advantage of going from your native currency to BTC will be highly to your advantage, and sometimes it will be less so.

My opportunity costs are:

• Buying the ASIC equipment.
• How many BTC I would make if I didn't offer Teramining.

I'm not talking about anything other than the upgrade proposition.  BFL takes BTC yes, but the amount is based soley on USD.   It has nothing to do with BTC really.  Somebody just tell me to shut it if I'm way out of line. 

Sorry for not replying more, the flu has taken over my household.

As for your question, my opportunity cost for providing Teramining is not in dollars, it's in BTC.

If things were to go catastrophically wrong, things would ultimately be valued in dollars, not coins.  If the price goes up more quickly than diff, than the obligation is actually growing more quickly than the generation.  That delta becomes the risk.

?

How does BTC going up increase the operators risk?  Please enlighten me.  My own mining equipment returns more as the price goes up, isn't the same true for Giga's cut from this operation?

As price floats up, the risk the operators take on goes up.

Giga, I like you but the thing I don't really get is this:

Originally you floated a .25 upgrade cost, we all filled out the form etc...  Based on that everyone got excited and the price spiked up to 1.10 or so.  Now it's moved up to .29, but in addition BTC has gone up several dollars since then.  The upgrade should be USD based since the cost of upgrading is USD based.  I think the gigamining has dropped in value because the upgrade cost is significantly more than we were expecting and that doesn't taste good.

I'm sorry you don't understand how fixed mhash/s bonds work.

I lost some BTC in Giga, the downward trend continues.  Now you wanna "upgrade" me to a new and improved security?  I think I'll be looking for an exit ASAP.

 

The bottom line is that Giga is offering gigamining/teramining to make money and is trying to maximize his profit while appeasing/attracting as many investors as possible. Just like any other GLBSE offering. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Of course it will always be less expensive to buy hardware yourself and manage it yourself. It is up to the individual whether they feel it is more advantageous to purchase a lower-hassle, lower return-on-investment, mining bond such as gigamining ... or whether to purchase hardware directly, enjoy a higher return-on-investment, but deal with maintaining it themselves.

There is also the issue of risk: Nefario/GLBSE may disappear or get hacked; Gigavps may default on his obligations/promises as other 'trustworthy' individuals here have recently done. There is no way to know. But if you buy/own your own hardware it isn't going to disappear. Again, it is up to the individual to assess this risk and what it is worth to them.

From your analysis and comments I suspect your money will go towards purchasing hardware directly.  

My original post was not meant to claim gigavps is ripping us off or that he is charging too much. I merely wanted to give my input as an investor, and why I am still iffy about the upgrade, especially with the .29 and 90% PPS. With ASICs being cheaper than the BFL Single, and using less power and outputting less heat, it's a lot more attractive to buy the ASICs themselves rather than pay 300%+ markup. Besides, BFL isn't the only company working on ASICs, and there will be cheaper options available (hopefully by the end of the year).

But sure, let's look at it from giga's perspective. He has 4 mini rigs, which BFL says they'll honor at market price, credited towards the purchase of ASICs. That's $60k, rounded down. 4 mini rig SCs cost ~$120k. So he essentially can cover half the cost of the upgrade merely from the IPO, even assuming he has 0 BTC left from the IPO (which as we all know, isn't true). Given the price he wants for the upgrade, I can't imagine many (if ANYONE) would not take the upgrade path. Assuming everyone paid upgrades, that's  11.6k bitcoins -- $139,200 at current market values. The cost of the upgrade is worth more than the ASICs themselves, giga can pocket all of the original IPO. $79k (plus whatever money is left over from IPO, which I imagine is quite a bit) is a ton of money. It's almost half a year of full time work at $100/hr.

Has giga really put in 40+ hours of week, every week, for the past 6 months, solely into GIGAMINING? No one can really say but him. I don't believe he has.