There has been no suggestion at all that glbse will "lock" you out of your account. That is simply FUD and not how Nefario operates.
Topic: [GLBSE] BDK -- LIQUIDATING UNDER NEGATIVE EQUITY PROVISION -- - page 6. (Read 21269 times)
^ & ^^ - I'll make the suggestion to JRO when I call him this morning with everything which's happened in the past few hours. Though I've been the most publicly-talkative about this because I was still holding onto hope I could do a June 2nd IPO (there's still a sliver of hope for this, and for doing it on GLBSE) and wanted to prevent panic-sells (*mostly* succeeded, though there've certainly been some panic sells), I'm not majority stake-holder in Hermes nor do I do any dev work. I can pass stuff like this on to the dev team and JRO, but I'm no programmer and though I like the idea of open-source projects (frankly, I don't believe in absolute rights at all, especially not "IP rights"), don't know if it's the best route to go forward - so it's probably very good I'm not the person with the final say on how to go forward. 
Appreciate the suggestions. Will provide an update when I have one.
Appreciate the suggestions. Will provide an update when I have one.
Just to be a real pain in the arse, but in the spirit of a) your openness and b) the concerns regarding the security of btc-related ventures, would you consider making your exchange source available (say, on github) for review and possible collaboration?
That would be really nice, almost a must. And don't forget to take a look into Open Transactions as a possible backend, or at least as a great inspiration for functionality and features.
Update added to OP:
"UPDATE: BDK & BDK.BND have been "limited" by GLBSE staff because we planned on launching a competing service in 2-3 months. Since we are no longer able to fund-raise on GLBSE, the June offering is partially canceled in that I can no longer post an open-market order. Those who reserved shares are welcome to either honor their reservation and have shares issued on Hermes, knowing Hermes will likely not have trade functionality for 2-3 weeks, or you can cancel your reservation. I am not accepting new reservations. As well, an alpha version of Hermes will be released within a few days, which all GLBSE-"limited" securities will be transferring to. This includes Zip.A, REBATE, BDK, and BDK.BND.
Dividends will still be paid to GLBSE security-holders while we figure out how we'll handle a transfer. Please ask if you need any updates, clarifications, or have questions. I'm talking to ten people at a time, and forgetting what information I've given and what information I still need to give publicly. Sorry, and thanks for bearing with me."
"UPDATE: BDK & BDK.BND have been "limited" by GLBSE staff because we planned on launching a competing service in 2-3 months. Since we are no longer able to fund-raise on GLBSE, the June offering is partially canceled in that I can no longer post an open-market order. Those who reserved shares are welcome to either honor their reservation and have shares issued on Hermes, knowing Hermes will likely not have trade functionality for 2-3 weeks, or you can cancel your reservation. I am not accepting new reservations. As well, an alpha version of Hermes will be released within a few days, which all GLBSE-"limited" securities will be transferring to. This includes Zip.A, REBATE, BDK, and BDK.BND.
Dividends will still be paid to GLBSE security-holders while we figure out how we'll handle a transfer. Please ask if you need any updates, clarifications, or have questions. I'm talking to ten people at a time, and forgetting what information I've given and what information I still need to give publicly. Sorry, and thanks for bearing with me."
Anyway... BDK & BDK.BND won't require an immediate switch. There will be a soft deadline when Hermes has trade features implemented. Investors are encouraged to verify holdings and switch by that time, but dividends will still be paid normally to GLBSE holders. Since we need to release something in really an alpha stage, investors will likely only get a type of report page for a few days to a week or two. Then we'll have graphs, ability for users to trade on the market, stats on trades, etc. Once we're confident we at least have a competitive product, a hard deadline will be set (aiming for one to two months). This hard deadline is when I'll stop paying GLBSE security-holders. It's my understanding REBATE and Zip.A will also be going this route.
Since it's seeming too expensive to get our securities on GLBSE relisted and an easy-transfer feature implemented for Issuers (and their investors), verification will consist of all security-holders transferring their shares/bonds to the Issuer. In my case, that means I need your bonds and shares transferred to Kluge on GLBSE. Once I verify, I re-issue you shares on Hermes. Please don't do this until we have something functional up for Hermes, or you may not be able to collect dividends next Monday.
For BDK investors: BDK operations will continue normally, though I'm trying to sell off my GLBSE securities somewhat more quickly to ensure my funds & securities aren't "locked," BDK is not having any cashflow problems, and AFAIK, I've come to an agreement with everyone who pre-paid for June BDK shares. All CD-holders will be able to be paid on schedule, and dividends will continue to be paid to those due without issue. Two people wanted to keep their reservation and will be issued shares on Hermes, one person wanted a refund to roll into a larger CD. The offer is open to everyone who reserved BDK shares in June -- just tell me by June 1st and know Hermes shares may not be tradeable for up to three weeks, though dividends will be able to be paid.
Additionally, BDK/IOU will not be held liable for the Kronos bond deal since GLBSE cancelled the Kronos.BND IPO. Both Kronos & IOU/BDK are in agreement on this. Kronos has been delayed by a week or two, the bond will be delayed for a similar amount of time, and since we've had to launch so many services way ahead of schedule, the bond offering will likely be significantly larger than originally planned. However, this did give us a chance to re-do the bond offering, and there were already many actions I took which I regretted. In the future, it'll hopefully be able to pay a fixed amount of interest.
Cheers,
Ben
Since it's seeming too expensive to get our securities on GLBSE relisted and an easy-transfer feature implemented for Issuers (and their investors), verification will consist of all security-holders transferring their shares/bonds to the Issuer. In my case, that means I need your bonds and shares transferred to Kluge on GLBSE. Once I verify, I re-issue you shares on Hermes. Please don't do this until we have something functional up for Hermes, or you may not be able to collect dividends next Monday.
For BDK investors: BDK operations will continue normally, though I'm trying to sell off my GLBSE securities somewhat more quickly to ensure my funds & securities aren't "locked," BDK is not having any cashflow problems, and AFAIK, I've come to an agreement with everyone who pre-paid for June BDK shares. All CD-holders will be able to be paid on schedule, and dividends will continue to be paid to those due without issue. Two people wanted to keep their reservation and will be issued shares on Hermes, one person wanted a refund to roll into a larger CD. The offer is open to everyone who reserved BDK shares in June -- just tell me by June 1st and know Hermes shares may not be tradeable for up to three weeks, though dividends will be able to be paid.
Additionally, BDK/IOU will not be held liable for the Kronos bond deal since GLBSE cancelled the Kronos.BND IPO. Both Kronos & IOU/BDK are in agreement on this. Kronos has been delayed by a week or two, the bond will be delayed for a similar amount of time, and since we've had to launch so many services way ahead of schedule, the bond offering will likely be significantly larger than originally planned. However, this did give us a chance to re-do the bond offering, and there were already many actions I took which I regretted. In the future, it'll hopefully be able to pay a fixed amount of interest.
Cheers,
Ben
shit
Fuck you and your exchange. Here is a nice example of some fail, in case anyone wants to know how not to make a website:
Do you seriously expect each and every trader to create a json encoded query in order to buy or sell or essentially do anything at all? Points for security though obscurity, anyway.
Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
I suspect you'd get a lot more usage of your exchange (I would certainly use it) if you didn't consistently slander Nefario/GLBSE. Regardless of perceived qualifications, most people don't like working with, and excuse my bluntness, jerks.
Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
Not a good way to win customers.
Anyways I own some rebate shares. Really don't feel like using 2 exchanges oh well
Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
If that is the way you speak to someone of Nefario's standing in the community I wonder what you speak to your customers like. There is no need to descend into a slanging match.
Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.
I was reading this, thinking, maybe I'll give it a look, but thenNefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
thought again. 
Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
neferio:
I understand your position from a personal point of view, I probably would be pissed as well.
But from a business point of view all you did is push up the development of a new exchange
faster than it would have, lose all the fees from trading these assets in the next 2 months
(or more depending how long or would be till it was ready) and possibly cause quite a few other
people to move over as well .
It's much more profitable for businesses to cooperate than to have a war.
I understand your position from a personal point of view, I probably would be pissed as well.
But from a business point of view all you did is push up the development of a new exchange
faster than it would have, lose all the fees from trading these assets in the next 2 months
(or more depending how long or would be till it was ready) and possibly cause quite a few other
people to move over as well .
It's much more profitable for businesses to cooperate than to have a war.
+1
neferio:
I understand your position from a personal point of view, I probably would be pissed as well.
But from a business point of view all you did is push up the development of a new exchange
faster than it would have, lose all the fees from trading these assets in the next 2 months
(or more depending how long or would be till it was ready) and possibly cause quite a few other
people to move over as well .
It's much more profitable for businesses to cooperate than to have a war.
I understand your position from a personal point of view, I probably would be pissed as well.
But from a business point of view all you did is push up the development of a new exchange
faster than it would have, lose all the fees from trading these assets in the next 2 months
(or more depending how long or would be till it was ready) and possibly cause quite a few other
people to move over as well .
It's much more profitable for businesses to cooperate than to have a war.
For now, we're discussing selling a stake in Hermes (or some type of equity swap) to get the securities transfer feature implemented on GLBSE and our securities relisted. There is room for both of our exchanges to thrive, and we'd both have a niche.
Yes, please. Try as hard as you can to work it out in a civilized way. There's room for a lot of Stock Exchanges, and even there's really a need for them. Competing is good. Friendly competing would be just awesome. And on this community this would be absolutely possible.
Think even on work some more things together. It would be nice that our assets won't be exclusively dependent on a unique platform. Think about working out some compatibility layers between all the exchanges such that the same securities can be listed on all of them, on a compatible way. You could then give freedom to the users to manage their assets on the platform they feel more comfortable with, and you'll just be competing on offering different frontends with unique features and costs structures.
That would make the competition productive for everybody, incrementing the efficiency of everybody's work.
Since we've been dinged with an unfounded ToS violation, we can no longer rely on GLBSE.
Which point of the ToS were you found guilty of violating?Also, why not listing on MPEX or other exchanges (there's a german one for example) but coding your own Bitcoin stock exchange?
We're working on an amicable solution. I can totally understand GLBSE's position from a purely business standpoint. Idunno if it was the best way to go forward, but there's no reason for me to speculate on it. Though, if you were running a regional bank, and another fellow came up and asked for startup funding for his own bank, don't you think it'd be reasonable for the first bank who had the loan proposed to, to deny the loan? This isn't a very good analogy, though...
For now, we're discussing exchanging a stake in Hermes (or some type of equity swap) to get the securities transfer feature implemented on GLBSE and our securities relisted. There is room for both of our exchanges to thrive, and we'd both have a niche.
Since we've been dinged with an unfounded ToS violation, we can no longer rely on GLBSE.
Which point of the ToS were you found guilty of violating?Also, why not listing on MPEX or other exchanges (there's a german one for example) but coding your own Bitcoin stock exchange?
1. I'd very much like to see BDK & IOU kept together. This is precisely what I'd like to see in banking developments in bitcoin.
2. It may be the case that if the chosen new exchange to list BDK (and BDK.BOND) on charges a fee. If you can somehow get that fee waived, or dramatically reduced for your shareholders, it could be a win (almost) all the way around.
If I understand correctly, GLBSE objects to underwriting as "competition" and "pinching their customers" - that seems incorrect thinking, to me. GLBSE seems poised to come out the clear loser on this deal if this is the case. It will certainly make me rethink my potential funding options.
GLBSE is objecting to us raising funds while we're developing a direct competitor to GLBSE, Hermes. Since BDK owns a stake in Hermes and no longer is fully able to utilize GLBSE, BDK, BDK.BND, Kronos.BND, Zip.A, and REBATE will all be moving. 2. It may be the case that if the chosen new exchange to list BDK (and BDK.BOND) on charges a fee. If you can somehow get that fee waived, or dramatically reduced for your shareholders, it could be a win (almost) all the way around.
If I understand correctly, GLBSE objects to underwriting as "competition" and "pinching their customers" - that seems incorrect thinking, to me. GLBSE seems poised to come out the clear loser on this deal if this is the case. It will certainly make me rethink my potential funding options.
Just to be clear, I'm able to deposit funds and pay dividends as necessary. Since we've been dinged with an unfounded ToS violation, we can no longer rely on GLBSE. We wish GLBSE well, but need to move. We need Hermes produced for our own assets (since we can no longer fund-raise for them), and given we can't put nearly the features we'd like into it within a week or two, will be rolling out a basic exchange and building onto it. We'll be transferring our own assets ASAP. For myself, since I'm now very concerned GLBSE will be locking me out of my account entirely, I will be selling off what I have on there as I'm able and withdrawing funds to provide buy assets on Hermes, where I know for sure I'll have access to my funds.
I'll provide investors with additional details within a couple days. I'm still working on acquiring funds to pay back June BDK reservations, though Hermes should be functional enough to issue the shares there on schedule for those interested.
So, consider this an semi-announcement of Hermes (I'll post a more fanfare-y thread later): Hermes will be listing platform, and include features which will compete with GLBSE. Goals include introducing a better crowdfunding solution as well as a better securities exchange. I decided to fund Hermes after being dissatisfied with GLBSE. I originally offered GLBSE $15k to improve its own service with, but that offer was rejected, so I decided to
Eventually, all BDK-related securities will be posted on Hermes, as well as all JRO-related assets. Since we've been forced to develop Hermes *now* instead of in 2 months or so, features will be very limited at launch, and only our own assets will be listed. As we improve Hermes, it will be open to everyone. I'll give full details as we better-form what we'll have and what we can do, and talk with the attorney in Iceland (we have one, now, but he's not as specialized in what we're doing).
ETA: I had a chat with GLBSE staff about allowing an easy-transfer method, but am assuming it will not be implemented. As such, currently holders of locked securities will need to transfer their shares back to me, I'll verify, then re-issue them to that person on Hermes. This is a tedious time-waster, but whatever. Assuming my account isn't totally locked down, there is no reason to immediately transfer shares to me. Wait until we know how quickly we can push out a basic, secure exchange.
I'll provide investors with additional details within a couple days. I'm still working on acquiring funds to pay back June BDK reservations, though Hermes should be functional enough to issue the shares there on schedule for those interested.
So, consider this an semi-announcement of Hermes (I'll post a more fanfare-y thread later): Hermes will be listing platform, and include features which will compete with GLBSE. Goals include introducing a better crowdfunding solution as well as a better securities exchange. I decided to fund Hermes after being dissatisfied with GLBSE. I originally offered GLBSE $15k to improve its own service with, but that offer was rejected, so I decided to
Eventually, all BDK-related securities will be posted on Hermes, as well as all JRO-related assets. Since we've been forced to develop Hermes *now* instead of in 2 months or so, features will be very limited at launch, and only our own assets will be listed. As we improve Hermes, it will be open to everyone. I'll give full details as we better-form what we'll have and what we can do, and talk with the attorney in Iceland (we have one, now, but he's not as specialized in what we're doing).
ETA: I had a chat with GLBSE staff about allowing an easy-transfer method, but am assuming it will not be implemented. As such, currently holders of locked securities will need to transfer their shares back to me, I'll verify, then re-issue them to that person on Hermes. This is a tedious time-waster, but whatever. Assuming my account isn't totally locked down, there is no reason to immediately transfer shares to me. Wait until we know how quickly we can push out a basic, secure exchange.
1. I'd very much like to see BDK & IOU kept together. This is precisely what I'd like to see in banking developments in bitcoin.
2. It may be the case that if the chosen new exchange to list BDK (and BDK.BOND) on charges a fee. If you can somehow get that fee waived, or dramatically reduced for your shareholders, it could be a win (almost) all the way around.
If I understand correctly, GLBSE objects to underwriting as "competition" and "pinching their customers" - that seems incorrect thinking, to me. GLBSE seems poised to come out the clear loser on this deal if this is the case. It will certainly make me rethink my potential funding options.
2. It may be the case that if the chosen new exchange to list BDK (and BDK.BOND) on charges a fee. If you can somehow get that fee waived, or dramatically reduced for your shareholders, it could be a win (almost) all the way around.
If I understand correctly, GLBSE objects to underwriting as "competition" and "pinching their customers" - that seems incorrect thinking, to me. GLBSE seems poised to come out the clear loser on this deal if this is the case. It will certainly make me rethink my potential funding options.
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